300 blackout 150gr?

[rugerdiggs]

Looking for some data on some 150grsp (have a sleeve of Hornady so flat base) for my girls to deer hunt with. I have some h110 and lil gun on hand. Bought it in hopes for a light recoiling but hard hitting deer round to 150yds max should be 75yds I hope. All I have found goes from 110-125gr then skips to 208gr

 

[thespecialist]

You may want to call Hornady and ask them if that bullet will expand at Blackout velocities. That being said, I'd try starting around 15gr of H110 and work up from there. I use 16.5gr under 147gr FMJBT pulls.

 

[rjacobs]

thespecialist I hope you mis typed H335 and meant to put H110...

DO NOT PUT H335 in a blackout case. DO NOT PUT H335 in a blackout case.

For the 150 grainers I MUCH prefer Lilgun to H110. Way less pressure issues.

For the 150g FMJBT's that I shoot for cheap I have settled on 16.0g of Lil Gun loaded to 2.140(right at the cannular). 16.5 I had pressure signs. I would start around 15 and work up in .2 or .3g increments and probably top out at 16.5 and see where you hit pressure signs. Should be between 1800 and 1900 fps.

 

[thespecialist]

Corrected myself there, I did mean to type H110. That's what I get for posting while looking over some notes during my morning coffee.


rjacobs, I have zero issues with 16.5gr of 110 under the 147's. I've shot it from 30 degrees to 95 degrees without issue using reformed LC brass and CCI450's. Runs just north of 1950fps from a 16" barrel.

 

[rjacobs]

I ran up to 17.2g(maybe 17.3) of H110 with the 150g FMJBT before having pressure signs.

I personally, and after reading a lot on 300blktalk, determined that Lil-Gun was potentially a better powder for the mid weight loads. I worked from 15.5-17g and had no pressure issues with Lil-Gun. 16g just happened to give me great groups and no pressure signs so I stuck there. If all I had was H110, I wouldnt hesitate to use it, but like I said after doing a lot of research Lil-Gun seems to be a bit better for the mid weight loads. H110 for the light stuff up to about 125, maybe the 135 grain stuff. H110 needs a high case fill percentage to not have wonky pressure curves. I talked to a buddy who has loaded magnum pistol(which is actually very similar to 300 BLK) stuff for years after I had pressure signs WAY early in testing H110 and he said H110 really needs high 90% i.e. 98%+ case fill otherwise it can do weird stuff pressure wise. He has seen low case fill 44mag blow up a gun at a charge that should have just had low velocity. Kinda scared me away from H110 after that and seeing my pressure signs. With 300blk and the light stuff you can get 22+g of powder into the case which should give a very high % case fill hence why it is better for lighter stuff. I believe the lighter remington factory ammo uses H110(or the canister grade equivalent).

There is a guy running Lil-Gun for everything in 300blk with ok success, but I dont honestly think it works as well for the subs as something like 1680 or R7. There are 2 or 3 other powders as well that guys have had real good success with the subs. 1680 and R7 seem to create a bit more gas to run the gas system than some of the other powders. For supers it seems everybody runs H110 or Lil-Gun, I dont see to many running anything else.

 

[Fredo0621]

I would worry about expansion at those velocities. The 110 gr. Barnes TAC/X would be a killer in that application. You should be a around 2100-2300 fps with the 110 gr.

 

[rugerdiggs]

I contacted Hornady and the bullet tech said it should work and expand above 1700 fps and said if the lilgun or h110 didn't work to try some AA 1680. I haven't heard of that powder or used it but will probably be heard to get with powder supplies the way they are. Anybody used it?

I may try some Barnes 110 in it also didn't think about the them.

 

[Fredo0621]

Above 1700 it will expand but not like it is suppose too. The Barnes is made for the .300 Blackout and will expand reliably at those velocities.
AA1680 is popular for the .300 and would be easier to get than a Hodgdon powder in these crazy times. Since you have lil' gun and h110 I would just use those.

 

[rjacobs]

I wouldnt use A1680 for super sonic and I wouldnt think anybody would recommend it either, at least not that I have ever seen. A1680 is used for subs because it creates a lot of gas for the amount of powder, which is critical when loading subs that dont have that much powder to begin with. So when running subs with H110/W296 or Lil-Gun you dont get as much gas as you would with A1680. I have seen guys on 300blktalk loading subs with H110 or Lilgun that had issues with the gun cycling and as soon as they went to A1680 their problems went away. With that said, I wouldnt run it as a super sonic propellent in the 300blk.

And A1680 right now is harder to get than H110, W296 or Lil-Gun.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

125 ballistic tip would be much better choice in the BLK in a deer hunting application in my opinion. I have built 3 Whisper/Blackouts and played around with them quite a bit, though I no longer own one. It is leagal to hunt deer here with 223, and with the right bullet I consider it much better than the BLK for that application. I have killed several deer with 223 and it is quite proficient with well placed shots and a good bullet.

N110 is an excellent supersonic propellant for the BLK and yields excellent accuracy, very clean burning. Last I checked it was easy to obtain from Powder Valley.

 

[josephberry]

110 for super
1680 for subs

 

[mscott]

A1680 is great powder for supers. I don't know why anyone would say don't use it.

A lot also depends on bolt or auto, carbine or pistol gas.

Here's the Accurate powder loading data http://www.accuratepowder.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/300_ACC_Blackout_Data.pdf

 

[rugerdiggs]

Well in my adventures down to the Corpus Christi from from Oklahoma I looked all over and didn't find any AA 1680 so I guess I will be using lil gun or H110 but I did manage to get stumble across a box of opened 130gr hornady sp's in Cabelas in Austin and the fella in that dept said he thought they was full when he taped them back up but let me have them for $20 so I may try them as well. On another note the ammo craze is slowing down, seen mounds of 223, 9mm, 45, and 40 in Academy, Bass Pro, and Cabelas, 22lr is still not abundant yet.

 

[rugerdiggs]

Well I didn't work with the loads on this a whole lot but worked up 2 loads with 20 and 21 grains of 1680 with hornady 150gr sp and 150gr sst and same charge weights with 130gr hornady sp's. The 150gr sp's shot the best with holes touching at 50yds and the 150sst's close to that but the 130's was a bit bigger than 1" at 50yds. I loaded up the sst's and my 8yo daughter got her first deer with it Saturday evening, was an awesome day for the both of us.

 

[biffj]

I ran 130 soft flat point 30/30 bullets for some testing and was able to get 2200fps with no pressure signs and some devastating results on waterjugs at 100yds.I don't recall the exact load but I was using Lil'gun. I tried the H110 but had nothing but trouble. 2400, 4227 and 4198 worked better for subs and the lil'gun worked good for supers. My guess is that the others are right...you need the 125gr + or - ballistic tips. You can get the velocity you need for good expansion and the range the blackout is good for. The 150's will work too but I don't think they'll be as good.

Frank

 

[karlglen101]

I have some 150 gr. blemishers (I call them) that I got from Midway. I'm going to load these over H110 because that's what I have. I've read enough from enough sources that I'm going to start at 15 grains and work up. However, I have not found consistent data for OAL. Any ideas please?

 

[rjacobs]

measured the bullet ogive at .250 and mark it with a sharpie.
measure your magazine from the back to the rib.
put the portion of the ogive at .250 on the rib of the magazine. Seat in small increments and test it.
bam, you have an OAL that, in theory, should feed properly.

What 150g bullet do you have?

 

[karlglen101]

Not sure. They were sold as blemished from Midway. They are flat base with a lead tip. This is my first rifle load other than my 223's. I'm a dummy, what is the 'rib' of a magazine? More importantly, I am concerned with loading to an OAL that is safe for pressure. I read here and other threads that H110 can be pressure funny with small fill capacity. Although I have not tested to confirm, I'm fairly confident my upper and mags will feed anything 2.26 and below.

 

[rjacobs]

The rib of the magazine is the portion that pushes the case into line for proper feeding. In the .223 it pushes the neck of the case. In 300BLK it pushes the actual bullet hence why you have to figure out where your bullet is at .250 and set that so that portion runs on the rib. I can almost guarantee that your gun wont feed a lot of the common 300blk bullets if you load them out to 2.260 because the bullet will push to far to the left or right and miss the feed ramp completely and jam into the barrel extension and not the feed ramp. There are only a handful of 300BLK specific profiled bullets on the market right now. You also might not have enough bullet in the case if you load them that far out. You dont load 300BLK to an OAL to reduce pressure generally, you load to an OAL to ensure proper feeding, then you work up your load to ensure you dont have over-pressure.

I hate to be "that guy" but it seems to me you do not know a ton about what you are doing with reloading or why you do a certain thing and not another.

So go back and read my previous post on how to figure out your OAL with your bullet since it doesnt seem to be a common bullet. My guess on your powder load(15g) is an ok starting place. I also guess you wont get above 17g, maybe 17.5 before running into pressure signs. Lil Gun is a much better powder for 150g bullets.

 

[karlglen101]

I appreciate the info. I've only been loading for about 2 years. I've only been loading the same ole' 55gr 223 plinkers, and some 70 gr. TSX 223's. This is my first endeavor on the 300. What you say makes perfect sense, I was simply giving it a back seat to safety of pressure over concerns of feeding. I also said I was not concerned about the feeding as I have loaded 10 dummies to all different lengths and they all seem to hand cycle with 0 issues. I know that is subject to change when you actually pull the trigger, but again, a concern only secondary to safety. Your second explanation helps. I'd prefer to use Lil gun from everything I've read, but as stated, I already have a pound of H110 so I've gotta use what I have. I have PMAGs and Brownells mags. I'm still not totally sure what the rib is, and my google-fu is weak. I'll grab a mag and do some interweb searching.

From your original post, could you please clarify:

"measured the bullet ogive at .250 and mark it with a sharpie." - I thought the ogive ends where the curvature of the bullet from nose to body ends. What do you mean by measure .250? Measure .25" back from the ogive, or from the back of the ogive measure .25" towards the nose?

 

[rjacobs]

again, OAL in ANY ROUND is generally set to SOME constraint(mag length, chamber length, etc...). THEN you work up your loads until you see pressure signs and an accuracy node. You dont generally take a charge and then vary the OAL to bring it to a specific pressure. In our case because 98% of .308 bullets on the market arent profiled for 300BLK, we have to find our OAL using a different method to ensure proper feeding. There are only 5, maybe now 6 bullets on the market designed exclusively for 300BLK(110g Barnes, 220g Remington, 125g SMK's, 125g Pink tips, and I think one or two others). The most common bullets used in 300BLK(220g SMK, 208g AMAX, 150g FMJBT, 110g VMAX, 125g Nosler) are NOT designed with 300BLK in mind and this have to be loaded much shorter than full mag length to ensure reliable feeding.

Take your bullet and measure on the OGIVE where the DIAMETER is .250. This matches with the DIAMETER of a .223 case which is what is designed to ride on the rib of the magazine.

Post 3 has a pictorial on what you are looking to do along with what a RIB on a magazine is.
300BlkTalk ? View topic - Overall length question

 

[RHunter]

The main issue with 150's and other bullets with similar weight in a blackout is not only expansion, but also penetration. You can not push them fast enough to get the penetration you need to reliability get to the vitals. Especially at 100 yards.

You may get expansion but what good is it if it only goes 6" deep? You wound the animal, it runs off and dies and you can not find it. You need the penetration to stop it in it's tracks. The only thing that will give you decent penetration at 100 yards is velocity. You only get the velocity you need out of 125's or less.

The 200 grain+ bullet loads are designed specifically for subsonic and subsonics are only good for one thing, killing a person quietly at close range with the use of a suppressed rifle. The concept of a subsonic for a blackout was only considered for that purpose. The development of the 300 blackout revolved around close quarters combat in an AR platform with a minimal change to the weapon system. Not hunting, not long range shooting... Just Killing people in buildings and across the street.

AA1680 was originally developed for the government to manufacture 7.62X39 to supply governments/fighters that had AK small arms. I believe this was done during the Vietnam war so captured Vietcong/Chinese/Russian weapons could be used by the South Vietnamese.

I have all 3 flavors of powder, h110, Lilgun, and aa1680. Of the 3, I like the h110 the least. It is a pistol powder and behaves like a pistol powder (fast burning) I have pressure issues using it for faster supersonic rounds. I prefer the Lilgun for 125's and the aa1680 for 110's and the subsonic 220's.

If you want to be humane during your hunt, you wont use 150's in a blackout for hunting deer, especially when the shooter does not have the experience to pull off a head shot. A gut shot with a 150 will result in severe agony for the deer and a slow painful death.

 

[karlglen101]

Gentlemen, thank you. That's the info I was looking for. The 150's are not for hunting, as stated above, they are for plinking - nothing more. I have some 125's that I will work up for hunting 150 yards and less (my range for this blind is actually up to about 100 yards). The 150's are just so I can get a feel for the upper as I haven't run it yet.

 

[karlglen101]

After a closer look, the 150's I have are in fact Hornady Interlock SP 150's. I noticed that from the link you provided (extremely helpful by the way, thanks) and then looked them up. The packs are blue and labeled with Midway's labeling, and only indicate that they're SP 150's. I only grabbed them because they were cheap blemished packs around $8 bucks a box if I recall, which I figured was a perfect round to have some fun with for a first load on the 300blk.
As to powder, I will eventually get Lil gun. I've wanted to, but good luck finding it. I have quite a stock of H110 and that's why I'm going to use it for now.
Now that I realize what they are, I may actually have to save some and load them into .308 and -06 for my father-in-law! These would make a perfect hog round for our 308's, but I agree, I don't think that they would do the job from a 300blk at those velocities. Although I thought I recalled reading that Hornady said anything over 1700 fps should expand their interlocks. Again, just going from memory. I'm sure I have a bookmark somewhere..
I'm not sure where 'hunting' even came into question in my posts, but as to ability, I used to use a 17 fireball or 22 hornet (~+/- 200 yards), and a 223 bolt ~350-400 yards (223 bolt). Only got a few at that range with the 223, as I haven't been on property with that long of an open range very often. I prefer the 22 hornet. One in the pan at or just behind the eye, or at the base of the skull is all that's needed
Cheers, happy hunting.

 

[1slow01z71]

I guess Ive had different results than yall using H110. Now it does go over pressure quick from just a little hot to popped primers often with just .2gr more. Usually theres a .4gr warning though. For some reason my loads end up above what many people run though. 17.6 for 147s at 2.14, 19 for 125 SSTs at 2.1, 20 for 110 Vmaxs at 2.06 all of which are hot loads by any accounts so if you use that information work up to that. The 147 load is real hot, 17.8 was FLAT primers and 18 was popped primers, the 125s and 110s are just starting to lose the roundness of the primer but man they group well in my gun. Havent run them across the chrono yet though.

The only time I shoot the mid weights is for plinking as in this cartridge that weight does nothing for game. I haven't had very good luck getting the M80 pulls to group well, maybe down to 3" at 100 which is not acceptable to me. I did get 500 of the hornady 150gr fmj blems from midway last week. The M80s had wild weight spreads so Im hoping the hornadys are a little more consistent.

 

[BravoSector1]

I'm running Hornady 150gn FMJBTs and 150gn soft point core loks over 15.0gn of H110 with an average velocity of 1,855. I'm shooting a Remington 700 AAC-SD in .300 Blackout with a 16" barrel. The loads were producing a 2.2" group at 300 meters. If you want more velocity/expansion I'd go with a 110 or 125 pill.