Hey ya'll, need some input. I just bought a GA Precision chambered in .308 and wanted to get some of your thoughts on the effective kill range of this caliber? I've had a 300 WSM and I realize there will be quite a difference between the 2 being that one is a magnum. This will be the first .308 I've owned so would like to hear everybody's opinion on their experience of what it will do and how far. I deer hunt and have the ability to reach out to 800+ yards. I plan on trying the 185 Berger VLD's. Thanks!
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This is a loaded question, out of a M 60 machine gun, well over a thousand yards, single shot on a single living target I would not go more than 600 yards, just to be humane, on a pack of zombies coming after me for dinner, I start working them over at any distance I can see them.
Just like armyjerry said....its a loaded question...I've never heard anyone on the small end of my m24 complain....I've also never gone past 800 yards with it.....
Game wise in the states.... me personally if the round does not have 1000ft lbs of energy left is where I call it max range... that's me just being safe....to me it wouldn't sit right with me if the animal suffered for one second because be was didn't have to common curtosey to come a little closer to me...
My loads in my old 308 was right at 650-675 yards max range and FYI Noer BT works well on whit tails in NY..but the game king is unreal...hvnt used a berger yet tho
Game wise in the states.... me personally if the round does not have 1000ft lbs of energy left is where I call it max range... that's me just being safe....to me it wouldn't sit right with me if the animal suffered for one second because be was didn't have to common curtosey to come a little closer to me...
My loads in my old 308 was right at 650-675 yards max range and FYI Noer BT works well on whit tails in NY..but the game king is unreal...hvnt used a berger yet tho
I'm a simple guy. You ask about kill range and mention deer hunting. Now a whitetail has a vital area about the size of a 9" pie plate. At what range, and from what field positions, can you keep all your shots, WITH HUNTING AMMO, inside of a 9" pie plate. I have a number of hunting rifles with whose ballistics I am familiar, that shoot comfortably within 1 MOA, WITH MY HUNTING LOADS (Nosler A/Bs, Barnes TTSX, Sierra GKs, etc) FROM A REST OR PRONE POSITION. From offhand positions and unrested field positions, 2-3 MOA is much more likely. Since I want to hunt humanely and ethically, I don't take shots longer than 300 yards at game like deer, or 450 yards on elk. For pronghorn, if I don't have the time or place to assume a rested position, I'm back to 300 yards. To help me, I hunt carrying a BogPod tripod to always have shooting sticks with me. In my experience, albeit more limited than some, finding the right shooting position and rest is a bit time-consuming...but necessary for effectiveness and good results.
Now I am not a very experienced long-range precision shooter though I have shot military high power matches that have a 600 yard stage. As Dirty Harry, my idol since childbirth, once said, "A man's got to know his limitations!". Identify yours and your equipment's, the target you're shooting at, the importance of hitting that target in a vital area, the costs to you and the target of a miss or a non-vital hit and set your limits accordingly.
FH
Now I am not a very experienced long-range precision shooter though I have shot military high power matches that have a 600 yard stage. As Dirty Harry, my idol since childbirth, once said, "A man's got to know his limitations!". Identify yours and your equipment's, the target you're shooting at, the importance of hitting that target in a vital area, the costs to you and the target of a miss or a non-vital hit and set your limits accordingly.
FH
Yeah...I figured I was opening a can of worms when I started this thread. I will be able to lay down in the middle of my field and easily shoot 600 yards in any direction. So, I will be in the prone position with a bipod. The close shots don't do anything for me. I've always hunted long range with a rifle. With today's technology, it's too easy to kill an animal within 300 yards...IMHO. I don't get any excitement inside of 300 yards. It's the thrill of the challenge to me. I'm new to precision rifles and this GA Precision is my first. I'm mainly a bow hunter and just recently got into precision rifles. I know it will take lots of practice, trial and error, and knowing what I'm comfortable and capable of doing out to a certain range. I figured 600 yards would be the max. I'm an ethical hunter so it is key for me to know what range my max effectiveness is. Thanks for the comments!
If you want a challenge hunting deer in a wide open space , try a 12 gauge. I am a little jealous of your hunting area.
I'll frequently engage paper to 1,000yrds with this caliber, but my conscience and practical shooting skill prevent me from addressing a deer much beyond 500 yards and I probably wouldn't take the shoot beyond 300 yrds unless conditions were ideal.
Here's what I do.....the vital area on your average deer is about a 8 inch pie plate right???? Go buy some 8inch pie plates or even better a 8inch gong....and find your limits....
1800 fps and/or 1000 foot pounds of energy is where I usually call it quits. It depends on which cartridge and bullet I am using. IIRC, my 308 hunting load hits this area around 5-6 hundred so that would be my personal max if I am comfortable with the conditions present.
Thanks y'all. Looks like I'll be going to the range with an 8 or 9" pie plate. Will need to calculate my velocity at 500 to 600 yards to make sure I'm getting at least 1,000 lbs. of energy. Of course, the shooter has a lot to do with accuracy as well. But, I'll say since I've shot my GAP, it's been performed flawlessly and nothing short of my expectations. Thanks, again all.
Ha, i live in Iowa, its shotgun only, no rifle. So im with you there, it'd be nice to lay up with a precision rifle and shoot one (within, my limits) but I went the other way. After last years successful deer hunt with a revolver, thats all I'm going to carry this next season.
As stated above, depends on a number of variables, mainly type and weight of bullet, length of barrel, charge, etc. By and large the average factory .308 has at 1000yds. similar terminal energy as a .357mag. at the muzzle. Naturally this is adjusted by the .308's muzzle vel. Short barrel, less vel., different bullet, different energy. My 29 inch barrel .308 with a 185 Berger juggernaut lies somewhere slightly above a .30/06 with a normal factory barrel of 22inches. A wide range of variables enter into the answer to the question.
My GAP has a 26" so that makes me feel a little better about my velocity. It's got a Bartlein barrel with 11.25" twist.
600yd or less.. for guarantee kill')
I probably should have waited to find a GAP in 300 win. mag but I couldn't resist...the deal was too good to pass up. It will just take a lot of practice and figuring out what my rifle and myself are capable of doing at long distances. Every rifle is different and every shooter is different. I just wanted to get some thoughts and opinions. And, there are a lot of factors that effect bullet travel once you get past a certain distance, i.e. wind, temp, etc.
Took a deer at 600 a few years ago. thats about as far as I would go with it. And that was with reloaded ammo.
I'd like to think I have to capability to take a deer up to 700y. But in reality I've never shot one past 150. I just don't want to injure an animal and lose my dinner. I shot a 4" group at 705y yesterday with my Gap308 in 10mph variable winds. I know I can shoot, but would I take that shot on an animal at that distance? Don't think so.
Check out Longrangehunting. There's some amazing long range hunt stories that will blow your mind.
Check out Longrangehunting. There's some amazing long range hunt stories that will blow your mind.
If I was looking for a gun to shoot deer beyond 400 yards I would be looking at calibers other than a 308, even if the 308 has the energy I would be looking hard at reducing the time of flight with high-BC bullets to have better wind performance. I find the biggest unknown when I am hunting is the wind. I shoot at 1,000 yards at least one relay of 20 shots every week and probably would take a shot beyond 500 yards on an animal that was not a threat to me.
As hunters we have a responsibility to humanely kill the animals we target. I tell young hunters the following: "I have never regretted a shot I did not take, but have regretted a few that I took." You can use ballistics calculators to determine the energy of your round to tell you the max distance of your rifle, but only you can determine your maximum range. One way to practice is to go shooting the same day each week regardless of the weather. Going out in all weather provides you with an opportunities to understand your equipment in many conditions and how you shoot, this will tell you if the wind is over X I can shoot a deer at 400 yards.
Just me two cents.
As hunters we have a responsibility to humanely kill the animals we target. I tell young hunters the following: "I have never regretted a shot I did not take, but have regretted a few that I took." You can use ballistics calculators to determine the energy of your round to tell you the max distance of your rifle, but only you can determine your maximum range. One way to practice is to go shooting the same day each week regardless of the weather. Going out in all weather provides you with an opportunities to understand your equipment in many conditions and how you shoot, this will tell you if the wind is over X I can shoot a deer at 400 yards.
Just me two cents.
Have you had any formal training? There are a lot of schools available that would help you get calibrated for understanding your limits, most don't like to be called Long Distance hunting schools, as they aren't trying to promote the taking of animals at less than ethical conditions. One school I am familar with, uses real world scenarios, as testing means, to check effectiveness and monitor improvements to the course work. Over 1000 shooters, on ranges from 200-500+ yards, since 2005, no one has cleaned the graduation course yet. A handfull of 95% scores, zero perfect scores. All stages have time constraints, adding to the shooter stress. You might look into one of these, and get a short hunting trip worked in as a bonus.
Unfortunately, some of the TV shows, aren't showing the whole picture, there are multiple attempts and extra shooters edited out of the aired footage, leaving a false impression of what is routine. Look at most of the competitions, at UKD around 600 yards, most targets are no more than 2 MOA, which is larger than the intended impact point of a typical game animal. Those guys are certainly in the upper % of marksmen, and they aren't going 100% on those, usually a lot less under field conditions.
With trained shooters, under field conditions with hunting ammo, ethics start coming into play around the 300-400 yard mark. My Personal Ethics Zone, yours may vary, is around that number, conditions permitting. We have kept stats on this for a couple years now, and during our cull hunts, we use 300WM, in order to give every advantage. We also shoot in teams of two, which also seems to improve %. With 308, shooting alone, again, with trained shooters, not just good ole boys ( although we have a couple of those too!!!) percentages are between 60% and 70% at 400 yards, in everyday ( read as windy, with hills) conditions. Adding caliber ( 300 WM) and a partner to discuss wind with, and spot misses, gets much closer to 90%.
What part of MS are you in? I spent some time in Starkville/Columbus.
Unfortunately, some of the TV shows, aren't showing the whole picture, there are multiple attempts and extra shooters edited out of the aired footage, leaving a false impression of what is routine. Look at most of the competitions, at UKD around 600 yards, most targets are no more than 2 MOA, which is larger than the intended impact point of a typical game animal. Those guys are certainly in the upper % of marksmen, and they aren't going 100% on those, usually a lot less under field conditions.
With trained shooters, under field conditions with hunting ammo, ethics start coming into play around the 300-400 yard mark. My Personal Ethics Zone, yours may vary, is around that number, conditions permitting. We have kept stats on this for a couple years now, and during our cull hunts, we use 300WM, in order to give every advantage. We also shoot in teams of two, which also seems to improve %. With 308, shooting alone, again, with trained shooters, not just good ole boys ( although we have a couple of those too!!!) percentages are between 60% and 70% at 400 yards, in everyday ( read as windy, with hills) conditions. Adding caliber ( 300 WM) and a partner to discuss wind with, and spot misses, gets much closer to 90%.
What part of MS are you in? I spent some time in Starkville/Columbus.
I have always wanted to go to a shooting school...and plan on it one of these days. I've got to find the time and money to do it though. It's not so much the shooting I'm worried about. It's the ethics and not losing meat! I plan on having a spotter in long distance situations.
Speed and Energy quotes don't always square up with the historical Facts, 45-70-405 rounds are known Killing Machines, based on actual buffalo kills, not to mention Africa large game. The 45-70-405 is capable to dropping a 1000 lb. Bison at 400 yards, did it 1000s of times, at around 900FPS -750FTLBS, go figure...
Am I advocating shooting a deer at 1200 yards with a 308-no way, I believe you should only shoot at live game when you have a very high chance of a clean and humane harvest-usually this depends on the shooters skills. The "magic" formulas on what will kill humanly and what won't-is often an opinion based on myth, rather than large volumes of historical data. The old fashion sub-sonic big bore rifles of our past-worked pretty well, in fact the old fashion 100 year+ old 45 ACP still works pretty well as a handgun. You don't need to be super sonic to have an effective round-what you do need is the ability to place the projectile in a vital area, again shooters skills/environmental factors.
Am I advocating shooting a deer at 1200 yards with a 308-no way, I believe you should only shoot at live game when you have a very high chance of a clean and humane harvest-usually this depends on the shooters skills. The "magic" formulas on what will kill humanly and what won't-is often an opinion based on myth, rather than large volumes of historical data. The old fashion sub-sonic big bore rifles of our past-worked pretty well, in fact the old fashion 100 year+ old 45 ACP still works pretty well as a handgun. You don't need to be super sonic to have an effective round-what you do need is the ability to place the projectile in a vital area, again shooters skills/environmental factors.
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