Entry Level / Newb

[CoronaGold]

Let's just ignore all the wrong things I know about shooting, and say I have zero long-gun experience. I want to shoot targets for fun with 308 from 100 yards and maybe up to 1000 yards someday. I have been lurking and reading long enough to know that I want a Remington 700. But I have questions.

1. If I have a Remington 700 short action rifle, in let's say 243, am I correct to believe that making it into a 308 is as simple as having the barrel changed?

2. I presently have in mind buying the cheapest 700 .308 I can find and building it a bit here and a bit there as I learn, practice, and have money. Any problem with that?

Thanks

CG

 

[lowfill707]

yes and no. yes any 700 short action with the the proper bolt face(like a 243 whould have) can be turned into a 308 by installing a barrel chambered in 308. the issue is you wont be able to just buy a generic 308 barrel and screw it on at home. it will need to be done by a gunsmith to assure that you have the proper head spacing. i would however recommend that you stick with the 243 instead to going 308. it has some advantages over the 308 balistically, not to mention 308 ammo is pretty damn hard to find right now.

 

[shooter.dm]

No problem there but u might won't to look at a howa 1500 .308 first I'm not saying a 700 is bad but the howa will walk around the factory rem 700 plus u can pick up one new around 400 bucks and it will group 1/2 moa all day long after about 8000 rounds put u a new barrel on it and keep going

 

[Hawk45]

As mentioned above, it is just a barrel swap. But the "swap" part isn't something joe home gunsmith can do. You would be best to spend the $ (and your gunsmith may require it) and true the action while they are installing the new barrel. There is significant cost in money and time in a barrel swap on a 700 compared to say a Savage where all you need is 10 mins and $50 in tools.
If you want a .308, buy one, not a .243. If you have a .243, shoot it and learn on that as the ballistics are better than the .308 anyway.

 

[CoronaGold]

Thanks for the comments so far!

When I first started looking into this last fall I came to believe that a 308 could be "lobbed-in" at 1000 yards but a 243 had no prayer of reaching 1000. If I remember correctly, a big 308 (168gr, 175gr, 190gr, on up) can get to 1000 and still be super-sonic. A 243 will shoot flatter than a 308 in the first several hundred yards, but a 308 will have momentum to go the distance. Also, the heavier 308 should be less affected by wind drift. So is it correct to say that the 243 is ballistically superior in the near 100 yards, but the 308 is superior at distances approaching 1000 yards, or am I missing something? Thanks

Moreover, it is a mute point in my application, 'cause I done got a few hundred LC brass in 308. Presently, I shoot them from an Encore handgun.


I should add too, with respect to my first post, I would ultimately like to end up with something heavy. Ten pounds plus would be okay with me, in fact, I kinda like the idea of just stupid heavy. I also like the idea of just stupid fat barrels, so a varminter would be nice, but something obviously fatter like a genuine bull or raw profile would, again, make me feel kinda stupid proud. I would like the barrel to be as big as a not-too-expensive after-market stock could accommodate. And I think I would like that not-too-expensive stock to have an adjustable (or at least nice and high) cheek piece. And I think I would be pretty happy with a 20x swfa and a 20moa mount. Oh, getting back to the barrel, please don't think I'm trying to compensate for something else, but...I've always thought a longer barrel was good for a longer shot. I have learned that can be VERY incorrect, but if the barrel is stupid-fat like a 1 inch muzzle diameter, I would think stupid-long like 28" would be just fine. Again, your comments are welcome. That's why I'm throwing all this out there. If I should just save my pennies and get a pss or a milspec someday, you can tell me that too. If I am stupid for thinking heavier is better, tell me about it. Thanks!

Oh damn, here is another question. Am I correct to believe that a 700 can be modified to accept a box magazine from the bottom? I assume that requires an aftermarket stock. What else is needed? Thanks.

I'll shut up and let you talk now.

 

[The_FNG]

Sounds like Savage have what you want, Model 12 LRP in either .243, .260 or 6.5 Creedmoor (i'd go the creedmoor) 26" barrel, 1" muzzle, weighs 11 pounds without scope. And then you can home gunsmith with a $50 barrel vice and nut wrench and swap between any .473 S/A bolt face cartridge... Oh wait, with the floating bolt head, you can swap bolt faces and shoot whatever you can stuff through a short action

 

[George Az]

I am in the camp of shoot your .243. Start reloading. The .308 rounds are really hard to find, building your own will save you some $$. But so will the 243. They are both the same base, you can turn your 243 into a .308, but I think .260 is the way to go.

 

[CoronaGold]

Sounds like Savage have what you want, Model 12 LRP in either .243, .260 or 6.5 Creedmoor (i'd go the creedmoor) 26" barrel, 1" muzzle, weighs 11 pounds without scope. And then you can home gunsmith with a $50 barrel vice and nut wrench and swap between any .473 S/A bolt face cartridge... Oh wait, with the floating bolt head, you can swap bolt faces and shoot whatever you can stuff through a short action

Oh snap. You had to go and make it simple for me didn't you?! I really have to look at this...

 

[Low_drag]

I agree, with the statement from Shooter. I bought the Howa 1500 heavy barreled action in 308 for around $500 and then bedded it in a Boyds laminate stock around $110, and the thing was a 1/2 moa rifle. You get the good extractor and the one piece bolt with the Howa. That is what I cut my teeth on until I built my custom rig. That Howa will out shoot or hang with any factory Remmy. The Remmy has become prolific because it's what the military has used, there's a lot of after market parts, and everyone else has one. You can cut cost by buying the Howa barreled action from snipercentral.com and them putting it in a decent stock.

After you start getting the hang of it and the bug has bitten you, don't bother truing it up or re-barreling. Just build the custom rig you want, I think it cost the same in the long run.

 

[Low_drag]

When you do buy your factory rifle, don't buy a 308 unless you have to. It's in your own best interest to get it in 260 or 7-08 if they are offer it.

 

[BoilerUP]

A Savage LRP in 6.5 Creedmoor is a VERY good option as a factory rifle for a new precision rifle shooter. Probably the best option, IMO.

 

[Hawk45]

Look up some loads and BCs for .30 cal 175gr vs a .243 105 gr or 115 gr and then go run the numbers in JBM ballistics for drop and drift. Agreed to look at the 6.5 offerings as well.

 

[shooter.dm]

Yes a 260 is way better than the .308 or the .243 you can't beat the 6.5s on the short action

 

[CoronaGold]

Look up some loads and BCs for .30 cal 175gr vs a .243 105 gr or 115 gr and then go run the numbers in JBM ballistics for drop and drift. Agreed to look at the 6.5 offerings as well.

I've been working through this for several hours and the short answer is, "Yup, you're right!" But I'll qualify it a little more than that.

When I first selected a cartridge "to major in" I was working from a menu, and one of the questions was, "Will you be hunting?" Well, maybe, I guess, so, yes, I might hunt with it. And that was why I excluded the 243 initially. My thinking was that I would probably not hunt, but I might and the 308 with a heavy, hot load still has a lot of medium-game-lethality at one grand. When you compare the largest-in-class to largest-in-class, the kinetic energy of the 308 blasts the 243 off the chart with 150% of the 243 energy at the muzzle and nearly 200% at one grand. (I compared G7/Litz Sierra Match Kings in 107gr 243 and 240gr 308.) With 850 to 900 ft-lbs at 1000 yards, any medium game would be fair game. That was my rationale early on.

However, I am surprised to confirm that in every other respect, that particular 243 (and probably others) meets or exceeds (sometimes by far) the 308 ballistics I reviewed. (And I tried multiple realistic 308 variables.) I was especially surprised to see that at one grand the 107gr 243 had almost as much energy as the 175gr 308, about 90 inches less drop, and 30 inches less windage. (I gotta mention to the credit of the big 240 gr 308 Matchking (G7 BC .332) it held its own with the 107gr 243 in the windage column.)

So thanks for that. My head hurts, but it was a great exercise for me.

Also, if I did decide to go with 243 instead of 308, would I just put some of my 308 brass in a 243 neck sizing die and jump up and down on the lever until I had 243 brass then trim it, or is there more to it than that? My head stamp is Lake City, and there is no "308" on it.

 

[shooter.dm]

Ok now compare the 243 or the 308 to something like the .260 or the 6.5 cm

 

[The_FNG]

I've been working through this for several hours and the short answer is, "Yup, you're right!" But I'll qualify it a little more than that.

When I first selected a cartridge "to major in" I was working from a menu, and one of the questions was, "Will you be hunting?" Well, maybe, I guess, so, yes, I might hunt with it. And that was why I excluded the 243 initially. My thinking was that I would probably not hunt, but I might and the 308 with a heavy, hot load still has a lot of medium-game-lethality at one grand. When you compare the largest-in-class to largest-in-class, the kinetic energy of the 308 blasts the 243 off the chart with 150% of the 243 energy at the muzzle and nearly 200% at one grand. (I compared G7/Litz Sierra Match Kings in 107gr 243 and 240gr 308.) With 850 to 900 ft-lbs at 1000 yards, any medium game would be fair game. That was my rationale early on.

However, I am surprised to confirm that in every other respect, that particular 243 (and probably others) meets or exceeds (sometimes by far) the 308 ballistics I reviewed. (And I tried multiple realistic 308 variables.) I was especially surprised to see that at one grand the 107gr 243 had almost as much energy as the 175gr 308, about 90 inches less drop, and 30 inches less windage. (I gotta mention to the credit of the big 240 gr 308 Matchking (G7 BC .332) it held its own with the 107gr 243 in the windage column.)

So thanks for that. My head hurts, but it was a great exercise for me.

Also, if I did decide to go with 243 instead of 308, would I just put some of my 308 brass in a 243 neck sizing die and jump up and down on the lever until I had 243 brass then trim it, or is there more to it than that? My head stamp is Lake City, and there is no "308" on it.

In the OP, you didn't mention hunting, so of course the 308 will have more kinetic energy at 1000ys, but steel and paper dont care about that. The 6 and 6.5's just get there easier and with a lot less recoil.
As for resizing .308 brass to .243? I'd prepare for donuts.

 

[CoronaGold]

Ok now compare the 243 or the 308 to something like the .260 or the 6.5 cm

No! Not until tomorrow. Damn, it is tomorrow... I will soon. Much continuous gratitude...

 

[BoilerUP]

Some rough comparisons, 500' ASL, standard atmosphere, all Sierra Bullets (for apples to apples)

1000yd drop in mil/drift in mil/energy

308 175SMK @ 2700:
10.8/2.8/527ft lb

308 155 Palma @ 2900:
9.5/2.9/510ft lb

243 107SMK @ 3050:
7.6/2.1/530ft lb

260 142SMK @ 2810:
8.4/2.0/700ft lb

Berger bullets will generally give best long range ballistics in any chamber, and the 6mm 105 Hybrid is roughly $8/box cheaper than the 6.5mm 140 Hybrid and $10+ cheaper than the 30cal Berger 168 Hybrid.

 

[BoilerUP]

Some rough comparisons, 500' ASL, standard atmosphere

1000yd drop in mil/drift in mil/energy

308 168 Hybrid @ 2800
9.2/2.3/670ft lb

243 105 Hybrid @ 3050:
7.2/1.9/574ft lb

260 140 Hybrid @ 2810:
8.2/1.8/744ft lb

 

[BGE541]

Presonally, I think everyone should own a .308! (By choice not force) But then again thats just me. If needed you can always go to Wal-Mart and pick up a box of hunting loads ect... Yes the ballistics fall short of fast 6's or 6.5's but that being said it is a solid round.

Like my Father told me about racing dirt bikes... "If I give you a bike with less power now, it will make you a better rider in the future when you step up to a larger bike." Now am I saying you should handicap yourself? No. But if you are starting out and have such a fast round you can hold dead center out too 400y and hit steel thats great but what happens if you ever change rifles/caliber/nesseccity to a slower round. Well now you need to add that "tool" of understanding holds, adjustments or changes "on the fly" to your tool bag. I dont think for someone starting out a .308 would be a "handicap".

I shoot .308 for matches and yes, it is more of a challenge and yes, it would be easier with a flatter caliber but yet where you are challenged you will grow.

Just my .02

 

[Hawk45]

CG, the best thing you can do is answer these questions:
1. What is the primary purpose of this rifle? Target on steel/paper? Hunting?
2. How much energy do I need on target? Paper/Steel = less, Game = more
3. Do I reload
4. How much do I expect to shoot a year
5. What are honest distances I'll be shooting regularly
6. How much am I going to let cost of components and barrels dictate chamber?

These questions will get you into the right caliber.

 

[CoronaGold]

CG, the best thing you can do is answer these questions:
1. What is the primary purpose of this rifle? Target on steel/paper? Hunting?
2. How much energy do I need on target? Paper/Steel = less, Game = more
3. Do I reload
4. How much do I expect to shoot a year
5. What are honest distances I'll be shooting regularly
6. How much am I going to let cost of components and barrels dictate chamber?

These questions will get you into the right caliber.

1. Primarily target
2. Paper/steel
3. I do reload. I have 308 components and tools. I've reloaded under 100 rifle rounds in my short career.
4. I will shoot 500 rifle rounds per year.
5. I will regularly shoot 100 yards. I will shoot two or three hundred yards whenever I can. I will seldom if ever shoot more than 500 yards because I don't know of a suitable place near my home.
6. If my barrel is junk after 2000 rounds I will be very displeased. I pick up pennies when I see them on the ground. Spending fifty cents per shot on ammo to punch a hole in a paper or make a plate go (wait for it) tink, can be difficult for me to swallow. (No, I have not considered a slingshot.) (Okay, yes I have...)

 

[BGE541]

It looks like if your talking about cost to performance for your needs a 308 would do it. 600y is nothing for a good 308 load and you will have double the barrel life of a .243. You already have 308 brass and your 'needs' don't ONLY point you too the fast 6-6.5 range. Maybe get the Savage 308 and switch barrels later if you so desire...

 

[shooter.dm]

Well said sr