Ive made a few other threads about this. Im done with this build. Seems like the more money I throw at it the worst it shoots. Even after sinking a shitload of money into reloading crap it still doesn't shoot. Should I just get rid of this thing and save up for a SPR?
- Thread starter Truth223
- Start date
I can barely keep 2 rounds touching out of a 5 shot group, with 168gr fggm. 500 rounds later and things aren't getting any better. Even had someone else shoot my rifle today at the range and same results.
Graham was asking for specifics as far as the rifle setup so we can help you out. It could be poor bedding or barrel/stock contact, loose base, bad scope, could have a long throat from the factory and you just haven't found the load it likes, or you could have a bad barrel. I have owned a few rifles that wont shoot, but it could usually be tracked to one of the above problems. If you had someone else shoot it and you were able to duplicate its poor performance, you ruled one very important factor out.
Kirk R
Kirk R
Long story short: Yes.. it's possible to have a rifle that just will NOT shoot.
aac-sd .308
Bell and Carlson a2
timney 510
pws prc brake
weaver 20 moa rail
falcon menace 4x-14
the stock is torqued to 55ft/lbs, rings are installed right, trigger feels crisp etc etc.
I had a Falcon Menace have a lens come loose, it caused some major accuracy anomalies. You may want to try a different optic, or put the Falcon on a known good shooting rifle. What size groups are you getting and with what load(s)?
I had a problem years ago with my Remington. It shot great one day then I changed a few things it all went to crap. Go back and check base to action screws, rings to base,&ring cap screws. If that does not work I would try a different scope. Maybe your scope is not holding a zero.
How did you get it fixed? I bought mine from swfa a couple months ago.
I keep all of my targets. Il take some pics and post them up here.
Not to highjack your thread, but I got a rifle that has under 200 rounds. It has never grouped. Last time out, it was all over the place. I am talking over 6" group at 100, two loads. This was about twice as loose as it has been. The thing our rifles have in common is the Falcon Menace. I don't want to blame the scope, and it still could be the rifle, but every thing else looks correct. I have checked it all with a torque wrench. After reading this, I am getting a scope base for another rifle I have and I am putting the Menace on it. It had a Leopold on that rifle and I know it shoots. I have not sized any shot brass from this rifle. I know it is not scientific, but I want to see how it feels to size it. Good luck with yours.
Yea Truth, I was sent a new scope. I was able to determine it was a bad scope, it was on a rifle that has always shot under 1/2 MOA, I put the scope on a rimfire and it was all over the place. I am not sure if the scope is your cause, but it could be. I am not a big proponent of armchair diagnostics, merely offering possible causes.
Kirk R
Kirk R
"Barely keep two rounds touching". So what size are your groups, and what are you looking for?
OFG
Im guessing 2-3" atleast,if not worse. A 5 shot cloverleaf would be nice. .5-.7" moa is what Im working for with this setup.
Shot this today. 43.3gr Varget,168gr smk, FC brass and Win primer.
This is strange because I was holding on the center of every diamond. Starting from top left is 42gr rl15,LC07 brass,175gr smk and cci 200 primer. Why are they all 3-4" under my zero point?
This is FGGM 168gr from today also. Bottom left is the group someone else shot.
Freedom Munitions 175gr match ammo.
The required torque setting on the action screws are 55 INCH pounds. You have ft/lbs listed.
If this is true, you have entirely way too much torque on your action and it is practically bottoming your barrel out in the stock channel.
ETA: Saw that you said you held at the middle of the target diamond and are consistently low. Is this AFTER making a turret adjustment; as in you shoot 1 inch low, adjust your turret and still shoot 1 inch low? If that's the case you also have an optic issue.
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My mistake. It is in/lbs.
Ah ok, figured I'd ask. It definitely wouldn't be the first time someone used ft/lbs.
See the edit to my last post about your optic.
Interesting. In the first group of pics, I see a lot of horizontal stringing, but in the lower pics there is vertical stringing, not really a consistent pattern there. To answer your question of why your groups are 3-4" under your zero @ only 100 yds, generally something major mechanically going on to make that sort of impact shift. I'd even consider removing the brake and see what happens. The vertical and then horizontal stringing is making me think optics or something similar mechanically.
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In the 2nd picture, the top left is 42gr of rl 15, top right is 42.3,middle is 42.6,bottom left is 42.9 and bottom right is 43.2 . Sorry for lack of info
Might help to do an OCW work up. Also, how is your rifle supported? Bipod & rear bag on a bench are good.
OFG
OFG
Harris 6-9" bipod and Caldwell rear bag.
I understand that not all groups are going to be great,especially my reloads due to not finding my accuracy node. But even on a bad day would accuracy be that far off with match ammo?
I don't know how to tell you but i don't think you will trust the rifle anymore or even try to fix it, save urself times and ton of headache buy a new rifle
I think you might be on to something. I should have got a FN SPR in the first place.
just be sure to list it on AR15.com and not here.
Im hoping to get it shooting right before I have to get rid of it.
Truth,
Your groups don't really look all that bad. An un bedded factory Rem 700 heavy is about a 1.5 moa gun. That means some groups will get close to an inch. Some closer to 2.
If you bed it, adjust the trigger, properly mount the scope and check the crown it should drop to just under moa. Some will claim better. The're lucky or full of it.
What kind of bottom metal do you have? Aftermarket steel = 65 inch/lbs. Factory aluminum = 40 inch/lbs max.
Some barrels will get a little smoother after a few hundred rounds.
Just go shoot it. Hundred yard groups are just to confirm your zero. Once you're out past a couple hundred your wind reading ability, range estimation and shooting technique are going to be worth a lot more than a moa.
Your groups don't really look all that bad. An un bedded factory Rem 700 heavy is about a 1.5 moa gun. That means some groups will get close to an inch. Some closer to 2.
If you bed it, adjust the trigger, properly mount the scope and check the crown it should drop to just under moa. Some will claim better. The're lucky or full of it.
What kind of bottom metal do you have? Aftermarket steel = 65 inch/lbs. Factory aluminum = 40 inch/lbs max.
Some barrels will get a little smoother after a few hundred rounds.
Just go shoot it. Hundred yard groups are just to confirm your zero. Once you're out past a couple hundred your wind reading ability, range estimation and shooting technique are going to be worth a lot more than a moa.
Factory Remington bottom medal.
My range only goes to 200 yards. Im stubborn and want to get my loads dialed in before I take them out farther. But thanks for making me feel a little better. Maybe youre right, im just expecting more than I should be.
Just a suggestion on something you might try...get the ogive measurements on both the FGGM168 and the Freedom Munitions 175gr measure at least five factory loaded rounds to get a good average on both setting depths.Use these setting depths as your starting point then shoot a OCW test.Your rl15 load has alot of horizontal,,IMO thats a setting depth issue or shitty trigger giving ya that.Your FGGM and Freedom Munitions loads are vertical,,it "appears" the setting depth is good but the load charge is slightly off by.1-.3gr either way...or cheek weld issues.This is all a WAG on my part but hopefully something may help ya out.
I know it sounds ridiculous, but if you that don't have your muzzle brake torque on good it can cause weird things. I had a friend with an AAC with a breakout on it and kept getting weird flyers. He took the break off and presto shot like a dream. when we got home he torqued the break on correctly and it has shot great ever since.
Verify that there's no carbon buildup on the barrel face inside the muzzle brake. Sometimes that can make things go fishy.
Not trying to insult you but shooting an ar type rifle is different than a bolt action. My buddy has an AR10 and it would shoot very close to what you have shown until he learned how to properly follow thru on each shot, now it shoots as well as my bolt gun. Don't have any idea on the shooting low.
Next time I go shooting im going to try with the brake off and see if anything changes.
If you know anyone with a borescope, it might be worth looking on the off chance the barrel is bad. Alternatively, have you looked through it toward a light source with just your naked eye yet? Some [major] imperfections might be visible even without scoping it. Best of luck.
id say bring it to a gunsmith.... have it taken fully apart (down to where the base is off the action) and have him check everything out....then have him put it all back together.... for under $100 this will save alot of time and headaches..... then after if he gives the go ahead and run some GOOD reloads through it...
If it was me, that's exactly where I'd start too.
Thanks for the tip. I'm looking for a good gunsmith in my area.
Yes
PSE EVO 60 Lbs.
Blacked out
PSE EVO 60 Lbs.
Blacked out
I took the muzzle brake off, and there was some black tar like shit on the end of the barrel. I cleaned it off and put the stock thread protector back on. Im going to try and head to the range on the 4th and see if theres anything different with the brake off.
With a Remington, YOU are the quality control. Nice catch. Good job. And give yourself a raise.
A semi stock Remington is not a bug hole shooter, I know my son's was a POS, got a new barrel new stock and it shoots way better, making sure your loads are correctly of the lands is important also the stock bottom metal ( cast POS ) will not be your friend if you want a true target shooter JMHO
Some of those groups show a lot of potential. Any time there is a problem and a chinese scope is involved that is the first thing I check. I would mount a different scope that you know holds zero and go from there.
If I have a R700 with even a sporter barrel in a factory synthetic POS stock and it didn't shoot better than 1.5MOA it would be on its way back to Remington. I've owned dozens of Remingtons and pretty much all of them have shot MOA or better. My AAC-SD with a B&C stock replacement shot 1/2MOA as did all my 5R's. The Police models I had shot anywhere from 1/2-3/4MOA. I think you're full of it and/or cannot shoot if that is your experience with remingtons.
If I have a R700 with even a sporter barrel in a factory synthetic POS stock and it didn't shoot better than 1.5MOA it would be on its way back to Remington. I've owned dozens of Remingtons and pretty much all of them have shot MOA or better. My AAC-SD with a B&C stock replacement shot 1/2MOA as did all my 5R's. The Police models I had shot anywhere from 1/2-3/4MOA. I think you're full of it and/or cannot shoot if that is your experience with remingtons.
You seem to have a tremendous amount of faith in gunsmiths.
lol.. it's funny but true.
I'd put my money on a factory savage over a factory remmy all day every day.
I had a custom rifle built and it would just not shoot. I tried tons of different loads, different optics, and configured the rifle different many times. It ended up being a turd of a barrel. Lucky for me the barrel maker sent me 2 new barrels to make it right. The one they sent me shoots great. It was a huge waste of time, money, and ammo but I am happy it shoots good now. I was chasing my tail on this thing for months before I just gave up. I should have called it quits with less than 100rds down the barrel. Live and learn. Some rifles just wont shoot no matter what you do.
