I'm betting some of the other bullet companies are doing the same thing, we just don't know about it. Lets say they suspend the Amax for 3-4 months to make the 55gr fmj and other bullets. It would only make sense they would then retool to make all the Amax bullets. Like FCS said it takes a lot of time to retool and set up.
- Thread starter turbo54
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At a time when the sport we love is literally growing exponentially , I can see where they have got to expand to keep up. BUT don't you think it would be a little bit more business efficient to keep the most popular bullets they make on some kind of production level. I mean just because a new pair of tits takes a little time to recover from doesn't mean a few other things don't work...
An inside source mentioned they were going to make a 112 grain .243 amax to replace the 105. I hope this is the reason why.
Given that the fax posted by Turbo (faxed to Cimino's Gun and Archery in Wisconsin) is dated 2 July 2013 on Hornady letterhead, and the link you posted from the Hornady webpage was also posted to their Facebook page on 12 Feb 2013...I'm gonna go with "the former".
That does make the most sense...
If you read the cover letter it clearly states it's a TEMPORARY suspension. I suggest we don't crucify one of our strongest allies in the industry. I'd be willing to bet, by this time next year the suspension will be an afterthought. If we're lucky they'll saturate the market with the ammo and bullets they're still producing.
That's why I would never get a rifle built around 1 particular bullet. I never understood why people do it. If you do a lot of shooting sure as shit the time is going to come when for some reason you can't get them.
That really sucks and im not even a hornady fan
Depends.
I subscribe to the thought process you should buy enough components to shoot out your barrel. That way you're out of components at the same time you don't have an accurate rifle anymore anyway.
That solves the "just in time" component availability issue.
There are other issues though: Case in point the 7mm-08 for long range target use. There is really only ONE bullet on the market that is well suited to a short action 7mm-08, and that's the 162amax (ok, there's the 162hpbt also but they're nearly the same thing). The other bullets on the markets are a compromise in 708; the 168smk sucks, the 175smk is too heavy, the 168vld is too long, the 180hybrid is too long and too heavy etc etc etc (I have high hopes for the 171 Barnes but haven't tried it so I don't know).
Even if they're plenty available, what if your barrel doesn't shoot them worth a damn?
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So this is probably just temporary, until the ammo market returns to more normal conditions?
This shortage crap is getting ridiculous....I thought things would have calmed down by now, but I've seen very little sign of improvement. I'm glad that I always kept a fairly decent supply of each caliber, but now some of them have reached a point where it is effecting my shooting habits.
I just checked grafs and the 178hpbt, 162amax and hpbt are marked "unavailable", so that would seem to confirm.
I like this line of thinking, but boy o boy would I get into trouble if I bought enough powder, brass, bullets and primers to go with a brand new 223 or 6.5mm barrel! But tempting nevertheless ...
I did the same thing. I expressed my displeasure if it is true as well. I hope others do the same.
Depends on the cartridge your barrel is chambered for... Obviously 308 is cost prohibitive, as you need ~45lb powder (~$850) and 7000 bullets (~$2300).
A 243 on the other hand is much cheaper! Only ~16lb powder and 2000 bullets!
With the breadth of 5.56/223 that they are suspending what are they continuing on?
Loaded 7.62?
Loaded 7.62?
Good news for Berger, all is well if they capitalize accordingly.
Wtf hornady
Sent from my POS phone using Tapatalk 2
Sent from my POS phone using Tapatalk 2
WOW, guess I am going to have to find another brand to shoot in my .224 bores this year for LR and varminting as everything I use is listed.
There is nothing that I can find on Hornady's media release page (even for the subscribers only) that indicates anything like this being the case.
But if it's a hoax, it's a well done hoax.
I think some phone communication from Hornady would be a good place to start. If they're honestly going to suspend production of this many items, they're not going to be able to keep it a secret from their customers, so this document should be made available to all of their customers; you'd think...
Since it's not accessible from their website, the possibility of it being a corporate warfare induced hoax can't yet be dismissed.
Dan
But if it's a hoax, it's a well done hoax.
I think some phone communication from Hornady would be a good place to start. If they're honestly going to suspend production of this many items, they're not going to be able to keep it a secret from their customers, so this document should be made available to all of their customers; you'd think...
Since it's not accessible from their website, the possibility of it being a corporate warfare induced hoax can't yet be dismissed.
Dan
I just googled "hornday suspend 2013" and there seems to be a problem...
the ONLY reference for the validity of this claim goes back, again and again, to the same old upside down fax.
Is it not reasonable to expect that if there were such a fax that was sent out to all of Hornady's vendors that at least one other source might be cited?
the ONLY reference for the validity of this claim goes back, again and again, to the same old upside down fax.
Is it not reasonable to expect that if there were such a fax that was sent out to all of Hornady's vendors that at least one other source might be cited?
I've had quality problems with Hornady bullets in the past and gave up on them several years ago. Still, if I used Hornady products I'd be as disappointed as others. Nosler and Sierra have been consistently good to me and I will stay with them.
Well, the memo (on Hornady letterhead) was sent on a Tuesday of a short holiday week that many made into a four day weekend...
We'll see what comes out tomorrow.
We'll see what comes out tomorrow.
good point... maybe there will be some confirmation other than the mysterious inverted fax by day's end tomorrow.
Whoa. Some of their most popular bullets,
I'm not surprised by Hornady's action in Temporarily Suspending Production of a large number of bullets and ammo. In fact, I applaud their honesty. I suspect that the current ammo/reloading component shortage is having a detrimental effect on all producers and suppliers, but Hornady is just the first to sort of publicly acknowledge the fact.
One merely has to peruse the pages of say Midway USA to see how much of the ammo/reloading components stock items are marked as not taking ANY back-orders. One can imagine the consternation that a company like Hornady is going through when they realize they have like 200 million orders, and the means to only fill like 100 million orders in 2013.
Then is becomes not a question of producing only what is most popular, but rather what can they produce the fastest, to satisfy as many of their customers as they can. Hornady is not trying to screw over their customer base by withholding product, rather they are a company struggling with the reality that the current demand is more than they can supply in the short run.
One merely has to peruse the pages of say Midway USA to see how much of the ammo/reloading components stock items are marked as not taking ANY back-orders. One can imagine the consternation that a company like Hornady is going through when they realize they have like 200 million orders, and the means to only fill like 100 million orders in 2013.
Then is becomes not a question of producing only what is most popular, but rather what can they produce the fastest, to satisfy as many of their customers as they can. Hornady is not trying to screw over their customer base by withholding product, rather they are a company struggling with the reality that the current demand is more than they can supply in the short run.
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It's probably even worse for companies who are stuck with tooling and machinery that hasn't qualified as being "modern" for a good half-century.
This is one of those moves that makes the accountants and manufacturing folks happy in the short term, but the marketing guys almost certainly understand the long-term implications.
There are suddenly a lot of "unavailable" instead of "out of stock, no backorder" hornady bullets on midway...
Agree with your premise.
If this isn't plastered all over the shooting forums tomorrow, by all kinds of sources, I'd say it's just a hoax.
if it is a hoax it worked out for me...a friend sold me all his 168gr 308 Amax's and bought sierra's when he saw this
I doubt it is a hoax. If it corporate espionage, it would only work for a few weeks until Hornady dismissed it and put numerous items from the list out on the market. The short term gain for any of their competitors would be nil since they are all having trouble meeting demand. Most shooters I know are very brand loyal and semi-hoarders, so they should have enough to get them through until Hornady can start production again.
If it is true, Hornady should come out and announce it publicly, so all of their customers have the same information.
If it is true, Hornady should come out and announce it publicly, so all of their customers have the same information.
Lets see.... The feds recently placed orders for 1.6 billion (1600 million) rounds (bullets and ammo) and now all of a sudden certain manufacturer(s) "suspend" popular target and hunting bullet production and people are somehow confused? I am sorry, but I saw this coming a mile away. I am actually surprised it took them this long to get to it.
Makes me think that Hornady probably was low bidder on many of the procurement bids, and recently got confirmation that they won the bid(s). Uncle Sam will always come first. We The Sheeple take a back seat. Particularly when you evaluate the list(s) of bullets Uncle is purchasing. Hollow Points. That should dismiss most arguments that those requisitions were going to be filled through standard military contract suppliers (Lake City etc.).
Makes me think that Hornady probably was low bidder on many of the procurement bids, and recently got confirmation that they won the bid(s). Uncle Sam will always come first. We The Sheeple take a back seat. Particularly when you evaluate the list(s) of bullets Uncle is purchasing. Hollow Points. That should dismiss most arguments that those requisitions were going to be filled through standard military contract suppliers (Lake City etc.).
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For real. You guys have no idea how much of a pain in the ass it is to fully re-tool a press and get it to shoot. Especially with a brand new press that ain't even broke in yet. Even just swapping a few dies to change profile and weight can take DAYS sometimes. At least Hornady gave people a heads up (unlike other companies who ply you with free hats to take pictures of inventory on the shelves to keep you quiet)
Even if this was the case (and it's not Hornady, at least not in the capacity you're thinking), you're talking maybe 3 presses dedicated to those runs. You can't run every single bullet variation on one press, it just doesn't work that way. They're set up different, made to run a "group" or type. That goes for draw presses too.
The plot thickens!
If this is a hoax then Midway USA fell for it. I was looking at the 60gr VMAX and it says "temporarily unavailable". I doubt Larry got hoaxed...
<yawn><yawn>zzzzzzzzzz..........YAWN.......zzzzzzzzz</yawn></yawn>
It also may be that they're out of stock, and being a holiday weekend and all, haven't been able to get a hold of Hornady for a ship date.
Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, not a conspiracy.
I'm guessing that we'll know something definitive during business hous tomorrow.. Until then, I'm not going to give either scanned document a lot of credence.
Just a note . . . there is nothing incompatible between the cover letter to the suspend list and the brief note denying cutbacks. Both could easily be true . . . eg, by minimizing changeovers Hornady will produce more, not less ammunition. Hence not a cutback.
My guess is the suspend list is true.
My guess is the suspend list is true.
That's a bingo!
The letter only addressed "cutting production of ammunition" and said nothing about the temporarily suspending production of certain types of projectiles...which is what has most folks spooled up.
If the suspension of certain bullet types wasn't true, it'd have been stated clear as day in that letter.
That's some fine lawyer-approved wordsmithing, if I've ever seen it.
And then I guess it's reasonable to believe that Steve Hornady took time out on a Sunday to issue this second communication... (it's dated July 7)... (?) kinda weird, I think.
M
milo 2.0
Guest
Well, Hornady should be open for business, what is it?
I'm on the phone with them now (number that's on page one of the document)....
This is not surprising at all, because it is just smart business. More total bullets can be made by avoiding the down time required to switch machines from one bullet to another.
Ok - you guys will enjoy this.
This is FACT. However, it is a TEMPORARY suspension due to market demands on other products. Once things level out, Hornady will bring these items back.
One other thing... This information is a leak and was not for public disclosure. The lady I spoke with did a quick Google and she saw this info all over. They will be making a public release on their website very soon now.
This is FACT. However, it is a TEMPORARY suspension due to market demands on other products. Once things level out, Hornady will bring these items back.
One other thing... This information is a leak and was not for public disclosure. The lady I spoke with did a quick Google and she saw this info all over. They will be making a public release on their website very soon now.
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