.375 GSC 414 VS CEB 425 at 2050 yards

[Kiwi Greg]

I finally got some GS Customs .375 414 SP projectiles to try out in the 375 DCM.
On Saturday I loaded some up with RL50 & went to the range to try to match the speed to my CEB 425 load.
The only one I fired went through the Oehler at 3170 fps a little faster than I wanted so I went back, pulled them, reloaded 6 more dropping the powder back by three grains & worked up.
This was the group they shot at 100 yards, things looked promising & I got my target speed of approx 3140 fps
It is 1/2 moa low & 1/4 moa left of the 100 yard zero for the CEB 425s.



My goal was to shoot the GS Customs 414, Cutting Edge 425 & my custom tipped Cutting Edge 425s at extreme distance to compare the BCs

I have been tipping the Cutting Edge projectiles for nearly a year now, it seems to hurt their BC a little but has no detrimental effect on accuracy & certainly makes them more aggressive on game.

So you can see the size of these projectiles they are here are next to a .223.



The barrel doesn't really like changing between the CEB & GSC bullets, it takes a while to settle down again.
The change from CEB to GSC is less noticeable than the other way around.
I HBN coat all the projectiles I fire except the GSC which appear to be Moly coated.
This and the different projectile materials, combined with the residues left in the bore could be the cause ?

A couple of things to note.

Before I shot this video I had only shot the seven GSC projectiles & had no idea how they would go.
I pay for all my own componets etc, no one gives me freebees, hand outs etc.
The rock I used as the aiming point is approx 1/8 moa, less than 3" around, about the size of you fist, the ATACR reticle nicely covers it.
I do this so I have a definitive point of aim, not some rock 4 moa across.
The three projectiles have different POIs at 2050 yards which is to be expected.
On the whole the groups sizes are very small & a testament to the projectile manufactures.

Here is the video I shot on Sunday, sorry it is so long I had a lot to fit in.

375 Cheytac imp, 414 GS Customs VS 425 Cutting Edge projectiles - YouTube

 

[oneshot.onehit]

Even though the BCs may be off some the accuracy seemed to hold well even with the hot barrel with GS 414s, are you good with the results in comparison. The CE 425s seemed to spray some? it would be interesting to see what the 414s are capable of if pushed harder unless your to the point already of backing off. The Reloader 50 seems to do well, have fun testing

When all is done, I will be trying some 50BMG with the 414s out of a 38" 375 VM2


cheers

oneshot.onehit

 

[Chandalar]

Great work and footage!

 

[Kiwi Greg]

Even though the BCs may be off some the accuracy seemed to hold well even with the hot barrel with GS 414s, are you good with the results in comparison. The CE 425s seemed to spray some? it would be interesting to see what the 414s are capable of if pushed harder unless your to the point already of backing off. The Reloader 50 seems to do well, have fun testing

When all is done, I will be trying some 50BMG with the 414s out of a 38" 375 VM2


cheers

oneshot.onehit

The CEs did appear to be a little larger in group size, but the first tipped ones I shot went into a very small group.

It is quite hard to get a handle on the size of things on the video, most of the "groups" were under a moa, some well under.

They deffinately don't like following the 414s out the barrel.

I can get a little more speed out of the 414s but not much, maybe 50fps or so.

I am interested to know how you get on with your VM2, the one I built isn't as good as it should be........

 

[oneshot.onehit]

It’s only a waiting game now, should be set within the year, decided to stretch out some after getting bored with the 338LM only wanting more. Not saying the 338LM is bad, just saying that I want to stretch out farther and with consistency in tight accuracy that can be repeated in the next stage being 2000 to 3000+

I will keep you up to date Greg mean while I will enjoy all the tech as we keep stretching what could not be done.

Cheers

oneshot.onehit

 

[Donald]

Its very interesting that the GSC 414gr at the same speed and in the same rifle were 7moa lower than the 425gr CE as looking at there shape they should have a beter BC, could it be the seal bands creating a wind upset over the bullet in flight dragging the BC down at the longer ranges?

 

[Dogtown]

Dang, those are some LONG bullets.

 

[Master Diver]

Hello Greg,

Way cool vid and great test results - keep em coming

What BC did you use when calculation your dope? The BC number given by GSC is 1.247 at 3400 fps. At 3120 fps the BC should be = 1.142, at 2210 fps BC = 1.056 and at 1300 fps BC = 0.896

Cheers,

Master Diver

 

[Kiwi Greg]

Hello Greg,

Way cool vid and great test results - keep em coming

What BC did you use when calculation your dope? The BC number given by GSC is 1.247 at 3400 fps. At 3120 fps the BC should be = 1.142, at 2210 fps BC = 1.056 and at 1300 fps BC = 0.896

Cheers,

Master Diver

I use 1.00 for the CE 425

In my rifle the BC of the 414 is well under .9 for that distance.

They were going basically the same speed & the 414 fell 7.5-8 moa under the 425.

I gave the conditions etc at the start of the vid & IIRC I ended up with 52.5 moa up at the end which should have been 50.5 for the 425s to have the correct poi at 2050 16 degrees up with a 100 yard zero.

I will test them against the CE 350 next weekend weather permiting, that might be a bit closer, time will tell.

 

[steve123]

Thanks for the video Greg!

Makes me miss my old 375CT!

 

[Master Diver]

I use 1.00 for the CE 425

In my rifle the BC of the 414 is well under .9 for that distance.

They were going basically the same speed & the 414 fell 7.5-8 moa under the 425.

I gave the conditions etc at the start of the vid & IIRC I ended up with 52.5 moa up at the end which should have been 50.5 for the 425s to have the correct poi at 2050 16 degrees up with a 100 yard zero.

I will test them against the CE 350 next weekend weather permiting, that might be a bit closer, time will tell.

That is way lower then expected. Do you think you could make them go faster? Your load had excellent accuracy

I shoot the 355 grn SP GSC have you tested that?

Cheers,

Master Diver

 

[Kiwi Greg]

That is way lower then expected. Do you think you could make them go faster? Your load had excellent accuracy

I shoot the 355 grn SP GSC have you tested that?

Cheers,

Master Diver

Thanks

The first one I shot went through at 3170fps but was looking like a comfortable max load.

That would pull some of the difference back, if I could get them up over 3200 it would get them to about 3 moa lower, but I doubt 3200+ would be acheivable with a sensible safe load.

No I havent shot the 355sp sorry.

You should see if you can get some CE projectiles to test.

What is your twist rate ?

Cheers Greg.

 

[Master Diver]

OK
I have a 1:10.5 twist and 32" lawton barrel - super accurate. It is a Dave Viers build SnipeTac.

You need to get with the MIL program LOL all this MOA talk makes my head hurt. The speed sounds quite good. What improved CheyTac case design do you use? Please elaborate on the DCM design

Cheers,

Master Diver

 

[Kiwi Greg]

LOL, I'm staying MOA I'm a dinosaur & have far to many scopes to change

The DCM is pretty big for a 375 Cheytac improved it holds 174 grains of water to the top of the neck of a fired Bertram case & 173 with the Jamison two star.

Standard 40 degree sholder.

The 10.5 should shoot the 350 CEs nicely

Cheers Greg.

 

[excaliber]

What freebore are you using with such long bullets?

 

[Kiwi Greg]

Standard type free bore, the CE are bore riders so most of it goes up into the throat.

The GS are similar.

 

[Master Diver]

LOL, I'm staying MOA I'm a dinosaur & have far to many scopes to change

The DCM is pretty big for a 375 Cheytac improved it holds 174 grains of water to the top of the neck of a fired Bertram case & 173 with the Jamison two star.

Standard 40 degree sholder.

The 10.5 should shoot the 350 CEs nicely

Cheers Greg.

WILCO the MOA

I will stick with the 355 GSC - got about 300 in stock. Also have some 414 if you run out ;-)

Cheers,

Master Diver

 

[T J]

I use 1.00 for the CE 425

In my rifle the BC of the 414 is well under .9 for that distance.

They were going basically the same speed & the 414 fell 7.5-8 moa under the 425....

Greg, is that 1.00 your tipped version or the straight up CEB?


t

 

[Kiwi Greg]

Greg, is that 1.00 your tipped version or the straight up CEB?


t

I use 1.0 for the unmodified 425 CEB.

I hadn't noticed a difference in BC with the tipped VS untipped 425s until I shot them sise by side at 2050.

I knew it was slightly lower because the speed went up & the poi stayed the same, I just used the same data.

I will have a play with the data I use for the tipped ones.

 

[T J]

Thanks Greg,

Which Model bullet is that? I briefly looked on CEB's website but didn't find it. The L13 or 402grn is the heaviest I could find.


t

 

[Kiwi Greg]

Thanks Greg,

Which Model bullet is that? I briefly looked on CEB's website but didn't find it. The L13 or 402grn is the heaviest I could find.


t

It is one I asked them to make a while ago now

 

[T J]

that would explain why I couldn't find it

Did you see they're starting to release tipped MTH's?


t

 

[Kiwi Greg]

that would explain why I couldn't find it

Did you see they're starting to release tipped MTH's?


t

Yes I did, looking forward to testing some

 

[T J]

You & me both. I can hear my wallet screaming for mercy already.

I've got a bug in Dan's ear about a bullet i'd like to play with we'll see.


t

 

[Dogtown]

I'm curious about how badly and quickly the CE bullets foul? At first glance the material they're made out of looks similar to the copper/nickel alloy the old LRBT used and those things were notorious for fouling the bore within 40-50 shots.

 

[Kiwi Greg]

I'm curious about how badly and quickly the CE bullets foul? At first glance the material they're made out of looks similar to the copper/nickel alloy the old LRBT used and those things were notorious for fouling the bore within 40-50 shots.

I have had one barrel that was a mongrel & will foul no matter what, SMKS the lot ...... :-(

The other barrels I have shot them in are fine, possibly a tinyest amount of copper, not enough to effect accuracy & barely shows up when cleaning.

The projectiles just look like copper to me.

 

[wadcutter]

Just wondering how many shots you run through a .375 Cheytac before you clean it?
At the moment my barrel if fairly new with about 100 rounds through it. I have been cleaning it every 15 to 20 shots but am thinking of letting run a bit longer between cleans.

 

[Dogtown]

Greg, good to know. Now we need a supplier here in NZ

 

[Kiwi Greg]

Greg, good to know. Now we need a supplier here in NZ

DED have some & are listed as the supplier

 

[Kiwi Greg]

Just wondering how many shots you run through a .375 Cheytac before you clean it?
At the moment my barrel if fairly new with about 100 rounds through it. I have been cleaning it every 15 to 20 shots but am thinking of letting run a bit longer between cleans.

I HBN coat my projectiles & rarely clean them once they have settled down, unless they "tell me" they need it.

 

[wadcutter]

Cheers Greg, looks like I will treat it like my .308 from now on, shoot more, clean less

 

[Black Diamond Rifles]

Greg,
I talked with Anthony yesterday about your testing of the 414. The BC difference your seeing might be due to your over spinning the bullet in your 7.5 twist. The bullet was not designed for that much spin, 8.5 to 9" twist. They shoot extremely well in my 375 Snipetac with a 31" bartlien gain twist barrel, 16 to 8 twist.

I talked Bartlien in to making me some 36" gain twist barrels for the 375 VM rifle.

Nice work!

 

[Kiwi Greg]

Greg,
I talked with Anthony yesterday about your testing of the 414. The BC difference your seeing might be due to your over spinning the bullet in your 7.5 twist. The bullet was not designed for that much spin, 8.5 to 9" twist. They shoot extremely well in my 375 Snipetac with a 31" bartlien gain twist barrel, 16 to 8 twist.

I talked Bartlien in to making me some 36" gain twist barrels for the 375 VM rifle.

Nice work!

Hi Dave.

I guess it is possible that the 414s are "over spinning" with my 7.25 twist, but I don't think so, the CE 425s at 3130fps & the CE 350s at 3430fps fall where they should at 2050 yards out of the DCM.

I shot the 350s at 3050fps out of my 375 Terminator against the 414s at 3130 out of the DCM at 2050 today, the 414 had 4 moa less wind but only .25moa higher elevation.

I'm sorting out the video at the moment, the first attempt crashed......so I will have to start again.... :-(

Have you shot any 425 CEB projectiles yet ?

 

[PeterPHWS]

Interesting video and many thanks for taking the time to do it.

I like the idea of using two rifles to test the bullets better. Giving your CT a chance to settle with the Moly coated bullets will improve the test for both.

In all my shooting with Moly bullets going to a copper jacketed bullet without a clean and bedding the barrel back in caused havoc. I expect this was happening during your test. Some of your ES's towards the end when chronoing were high. This should hopefully settle down using two rifles.

If you could take a graph paper pad and do a simple "plot" of the shots ( 1 moa - 1 square ) for each rifle that would help in analysing the results.

Great "backstop" and ease of seeing fall of shot by the way! Very envious!

 

[Kiwi Greg]

Interesting video and many thanks for taking the time to do it.

I like the idea of using two rifles to test the bullets better. Giving your CT a chance to settle with the Moly coated bullets will improve the test for both.

In all my shooting with Moly bullets going to a copper jacketed bullet without a clean and bedding the barrel back in caused havoc. I expect this was happening during your test. Some of your ES's towards the end when chronoing were high. This should hopefully settle down using two rifles.

If you could take a graph paper pad and do a simple "plot" of the shots ( 1 moa - 1 square ) for each rifle that would help in analysing the results.

Great "backstop" and ease of seeing fall of shot by the way! Very envious!

Thanks.

Yep I know where you are coming from, I have had that issue in the past going from one to the other.

After over 12 hours the other video I made yesterday is finally up loaded.

I will make a post on it shortly.