another neck sizing vs. full length sizing question

[TOP PREDATOR]

i have a question about FL VS NS. first let me tell you my setup and situation.

i have a .243, 700rem varmint, shooting 105 amaxes or BTHP, DIY moly coated. i have new unfired federal cases. i'm in load development, i'm probably going to use H1000 somewhere between 45.5 to 47 grains (probably less than 47 i try not to max or hot rod my loads, putting saftey first) and for now large rifle primers fed 210's.

my reloading set up and practices are pretty basic, no real special tools other than calipers. i don't intend on bench rest shooting, and if around 1" at 100Y, i'm satisfied, and if it's safe w/ no pressure signs, i don't see the need for all those special gauges and measurements, at least for the type of shooting i do. i use an RCBS rock chucker, have a set of 3 Lee dies (FL w deprimer, NS collet w deprimer, seating die - yellow box).

the object is to have a safe / accurate load and to have good case life. using H1000, i hope to increase barrel life as it's believed that H1000 does that.

from what i've read on SH and elsewhere, new brass should be FL sized, trimmed if needed, loaded and fired, then it could be NS'd for up to 3 times before it may need to be FLS due to sticky chambering. also it's talked that the need for trimming is reduced when NS. then the topic threads go way off track, and the subject gets lost.

from what i've read or try to comprehend, NS reduces the stretch on the case body increasing life. so after FLS new cases, then firing, i should be able to just NS and checking case length without any issues concerning safety, correct?

then once the case starts getting sticky while chambering, it's time to FL, probably trim at that point (a basic hornady rotary hand spun trimmer mounted to the bench - looks like a lathe), then go back to NS.

so as far as safety, decent / basic accuracy, case life and chambering goes, i shouldn't have any issues if following this procedure?

 

[Twitch2120]

yup, once brass is fireformed to your chamber you are good to go for neck sizing. anneal every 4-6 firings and the brass should last a while. im working on load 12 on some Win 308 brass. FL to start then necked afterwards. havent had issues with hard bolt closure so i havent bumped the shoulder.

also, you should stick to book case length unless you buy a case length gauge. i will probably never trim 308 for my remmy again. case can go almost a full .05 past book length.

 

[Sniper Uncle]

Okay, STUPID ME!, But why would you F/L size brand new brass before you fire it??? I merely run an expander through it to make sure there are no dings in the mouth. I do not trim it, either, as it is made to spec, and below trim length.
Your first firing will fire-form to your chamber, so I see no need to "size" the new brass.....

 

[Captain Kirk]

I take new brass, prime and load, it wont see a resizing die until its fired. Once it is fired, I will FL resize it every time just enough to bump the neck a thou or so to ensure smooth loading. Basically, take the fired case and insert it in the chamber and close the bolt, you will feel some resistance. Take that case, with the die backed out a little try resizing and chamber the case, continue to adjust the die down in small increments until you feel that resistance gone when the bolt is closed on your fired case. This ensures you are not overworking your brass more than required, and it will make bolt manipulation fast and smooth with all your cases.

 

[wvlapua]

New brass, just NK size to get uniform neck tension. Trim to book length when needed. FL size when needed.

 

[Kreeper]

Just fire the new brass then neck size. If cycle problems them fl size and neck..

 

[FLIGHT762]

I'm very careful to keep a good record on how many times the brass was neck sized, about 3-4 times. I hate to have to beat the bolt handle open after getting a stuck case that was neck only sized. I keep a thick, hardwood dowel in my pack just in case.

I still N/O size for range ammo, but any ammo that will be used out in the field, away from Civilization gets F/L sized. As long as you set your F/L sizing die up properly to F/L bump to .001"-.002", your brass will last a long time.

I think as long as you N/O 3 times, you should be okay.

As far as new brass, I run the new brass through a neck sizing die to iron out any case mouth dents and then load it up.

 

[Twitch2120]

i FL size new brass just to make sure it didnt escape the factory out of spec. probably wouldnt do this lapua/nosler/norma but win or remmy brass in a bag... you all are braver than I.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

If you set a FL die up PROPERLY there is no reason EVER to neck size brass. It has been said. It will be said again and again. There will always be people who insist it is necessary, it is magical, it is smart, etc etc etc. It is 50's BR technology, literally.
There is no proof at the target that it does anything besides save one from learning how to set up a FL die.

 

[oldfatguy]

Just plain lazy here. Lee Collet NS die requires no lube to apply & remove. Shoulder bump & NS after 4 firings.

OFG

 

[MajorHeadTrauma]

Neck size and your brass lasts longer than your barrel.

 

[ksthomas]

Top Pred,

Entirely your call, but N/S invites problems and headaches that are simply unnecessary, and offers no real advantages. Case life isn't improved over F/L sizing, of you're doing the F/L sizing properly. By that I mean not setting the shoulder back by more than .001"-.002" for a bolt gun. You get easier chambering AND extraction, improved accuracy and virtually eliminate the potential for sticking a bolt at an inopportune time. Neck Sizing, as a practice, is finally starting to fade away, and it's long past time. F/L bushing dies, used in conjunction with bump gages to confirm H/S and shoulder set back is far and away the best path to take.

 

[Beluebow]

Top Pred,

Entirely your call, but N/S invites problems and headaches that are simply unnecessary, and offers no real advantages. Case life isn't improved over F/L sizing, of you're doing the F/L sizing properly. By that I mean not setting the shoulder back by more than .001"-.002" for a bolt gun. You get easier chambering AND extraction, improved accuracy and virtually eliminate the potential for sticking a bolt at an inopportune time. Neck Sizing, as a practice, is finally starting to fade away, and it's long past time. F/L bushing dies, used in conjunction with bump gages to confirm H/S and shoulder set back is far and away the best path to take.

+1 I couldnt agree more.NS is old school.

 

[thrusty]

Top Pred,

Entirely your call, but N/S invites problems and headaches that are simply unnecessary, and offers no real advantages. Case life isn't improved over F/L sizing, of you're doing the F/L sizing properly. By that I mean not setting the shoulder back by more than .001"-.002" for a bolt gun. You get easier chambering AND extraction, improved accuracy and virtually eliminate the potential for sticking a bolt at an inopportune time. Neck Sizing, as a practice, is finally starting to fade away, and it's long past time. F/L bushing dies, used in conjunction with bump gages to confirm H/S and shoulder set back is far and away the best path to take.

++1 I went through the whole NS vs FL size fad and after doing a lot of experimenting and testing I've come to the same conclusion. Get a good headspace gauge and ensure that you are bumping the shoulder back just enough to easily close the bolt (.001"-.002" as you mentioned) and you will find that you are not working the brass much more than neck sizing. I found that my shots are much more consistent when I FL size and I get more peace of mind knowing that my round will chamber each time (I did have some failure to feed because of neck sizing, which I blame myself too for not bumping the shoulder back soon enough).

 

[1lnbrdg]

Failure to feed is horrible but failure to extract is unforgivable!

I've seen more failure to extract from neck-sized only brass than for any other reason.

 

[427Cobra]

There is absolutely no benefit to NS only compared to FL every time with bushing dies, or a FL die with the neck honed, I have some Win 7-08 and Win 243 resized to 260Rem with over 25 reloads, bump the shoulder .001-.002, anneal often, trim when the brass is .010 from the end of the chamber, precise powder charges, seat by ojive length, and shoot through the chrono often.

 

[mdmp5]

I size in 2 steps. 1st, I use a neck die with one bushing, then f/l with a sized down bushing. Seems to give me really good results and I have been doing it for a few years now. Btw, are you really gonna use h1000 with a 105 gr bullet? I don't have my book in front of me, but h1000 seems way too slow for a light bullet like that.

 

[Ring]

i have a question about FL VS NS. first let me tell you my setup and situation.

i have a .243, 700rem varmint, shooting 105 amaxes or BTHP, DIY moly coated. i have new unfired federal cases. i'm in load development, i'm probably going to use H1000 somewhere between 45.5 to 47 grains (probably less than 47 i try not to max or hot rod my loads, putting saftey first) and for now large rifle primers fed 210's.

my reloading set up and practices are pretty basic, no real special tools other than calipers. i don't intend on bench rest shooting, and if around 1" at 100Y, i'm satisfied, and if it's safe w/ no pressure signs, i don't see the need for all those special gauges and measurements, at least for the type of shooting i do. i use an RCBS rock chucker, have a set of 3 Lee dies (FL w deprimer, NS collet w deprimer, seating die - yellow box).

the object is to have a safe / accurate load and to have good case life. using H1000, i hope to increase barrel life as it's believed that H1000 does that.

from what i've read on SH and elsewhere, new brass should be FL sized, trimmed if needed, loaded and fired, then it could be NS'd for up to 3 times before it may need to be FLS due to sticky chambering. also it's talked that the need for trimming is reduced when NS. then the topic threads go way off track, and the subject gets lost.

from what i've read or try to comprehend, NS reduces the stretch on the case body increasing life. so after FLS new cases, then firing, i should be able to just NS and checking case length without any issues concerning safety, correct?

then once the case starts getting sticky while chambering, it's time to FL, probably trim at that point (a basic hornady rotary hand spun trimmer mounted to the bench - looks like a lathe), then go back to NS.

so as far as safety, decent / basic accuracy, case life and chambering goes, i shouldn't have any issues if following this procedure?

yes................

 

[MajorHeadTrauma]

I size in 2 steps. 1st, I use a neck die with one bushing, then f/l with a sized down bushing. Seems to give me really good results and I have been doing it for a few years now. Btw, are you really gonna use h1000 with a 105 gr bullet? I don't have my book in front of me, but h1000 seems way too slow for a light bullet like that.

FYI, I use H1000 with Berger 105 Hybrids in my .243. 47.0 gr gives me 3000 GPS.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[Fuzzball]

"from what i've read or try to comprehend, NS reduces the stretch on the case body increasing life."

Yeah. And, unfortunately, most of what you read/hear about neck sizing is BS. NS largely eliminates case stretch but cannot eliminate it because the act of hitting the case with a firing pin and the resulting primer force sets the shoulder of a bottle neck case back a few thou at firing, that's why they all need a bit of shoulder set back from time to time, no matter how you size. All NS does is minimise the effects of the excessive/sloppy shoulder set back that occurs with what most people think is correct "FL" sizing; that is, they jam the cases as far into the sizer as they can go but if you FL size properly then NS isn't very helpful for sporter rifle case life. Most cases fail due to neck splits anyway and conventional neck sizers are as bad for that as any FL die.

A fired case has already shrunk back 1-2 thou from actual chamber length. Thus there is no reason to set the shoulders back additionally from the longest fired case you have and doing more set back simply increases the rate of body stretch each time it's fired.

 

[TOP PREDATOR]

thanks for the info guys, i NS'd a bunch last night, i guess it can't hurt to try it for a few cycles and see what the results are, i'll bring some wood just in case around the third firing. just being cautious the first time doing NS. the first advantage is seen is processing time is definitely shorter.

Btw, are you really gonna use h1000 with a 105 gr bullet? I don't have my book in front of me, but h1000 seems way too slow for a light bullet like that.

i only went to 46 grains so far, mid 2800's. going to try 46.5 and 47 hopefully this weekend, find my depth, and load a crap load up of 105 BTHPs and Amaxs.

46.5 was a load given and shown to be a good one (using magnum primers) by a few of the guys here too, i appreciate the help with it. i have a ton of 210 primers, and they seem to be working just fine so far.

thanks SH crew for the help on the load and other stuff going into this rifle.