Suppressors Can the Griffin taper mounts be perm'd?

[kala_azar]

I have several M4SD flash comps on my uppers. (LOVE them, btw) I've been thinking on the M4SDII or SDK for my next can, but I'd like to use it on my SPR as well and I'm concerned that it may not be ideal for that.

I really like the Recce 5, and the idea of the taper mount, but I have several non-SBR 14.5 uppers, so if I can't pin/weld or silver solder the mounts it would be a no go.

Evan, maybe you can chime in here? Thanks!

 

[11B-B4]

Hey,

Yeah really anything can be permanently attached. The Taper mounts are not at this time pre-drilled for pinning, if thats your question. The M4SD Flash comp is as well as the 762 Flash comp non mount.

We will probably move towards pre drilling some of the other mounts in the future, the ones that make sense. But for now they are not pre drilled.

That being said though the taper mounts can be drilled for pinning. Whomever is doing the work just needs to realize that the pinned and welded hole needs to be dimpled beneath the surface of the taper or ground flush as the taper is what allows proper alignment and lock of the suppressors. That is if they are drilling through the taper. You can drill through the threads as well to accomplish this but that leaves more room for error with creating an issue. I can be done by someone competent but it's not as easy probably.

Does that make sense? Any other questions feel free to ask me. Thanks. -Evan

 

[kala_azar]

Thanks for the info, I figured they would work.

For a multi-use can (SPR, carbines, limited 10.5 SBR, no full-auto), would you recommend the M4SD series, the PHS, or the Recce?

It seems like the Recce is a taper-mount version of the M4-series?

I want a "do-it-all" can for my ARs, but I'm concerned that the M4 series won't give me as much accuracy potential as the taper mount series on my dedicated SPR. If it's not a worry I'd love to keep all my legacy M4SD mounts!!

Thanks!

 

[11B-B4]

Thanks for the info, I figured they would work.

For a multi-use can (SPR, carbines, limited 10.5 SBR, no full-auto), would you recommend the M4SD series, the PHS, or the Recce?

It seems like the Recce is a taper-mount version of the M4-series?

I want a "do-it-all" can for my ARs, but I'm concerned that the M4 series won't give me as much accuracy potential as the taper mount series on my dedicated SPR. If it's not a worry I'd love to keep all my legacy M4SD mounts!!

Thanks!

The performance of the M4SDII is hard to beat. Its definitely a do it all can for AR's. It's ear safe down to a 10.3" MK18 Mod 1 and cuts 34DB off a 14.5" carbine. As far as POI shift with it, you could run it on an SPR style gun if you wanted to. In our practical field testing(NOT TEST BARREL) we have seen 1-1.5 MOA shift with the M4SDII cans. That's prone supported with mid range optics typical of recce/SPR guns. The Recce series is a little tighter on POI shift in our testing but requires the dedicated taper mounts.

We will try to do a POI video with a recce5 taper mount in the next couple weeks if time allows and get that on our youtube channel. The M4SD mounts are OD ground to +/-.0003" accuracy. Interface with the M4SD suppressors ID JIG ground bores are very very nice. So it's near precision rifle solid in terms of lock up. You don't give up much running that QD mechanism. But for perfection, yeah the taper mounts are better, but only by a small margin.

Hopefully that answers your question. Thanks -Evan

 

[kala_azar]

Thanks for the info, I appreciate it.

So would you say the taper mount cans are just another option out there for consumers? Like I said, I love my M4SD comps, and have several that are already prem'd on 14.5 barrels so I'd be thrilled to stick with that system. But at the same time, I got out of AAC cans because I couldn't get comfortable with the level of precision I got using their 51T mounts. I just want to avoid repeating that again!

 

[11B-B4]

Thanks for the info, I appreciate it.

So would you say the taper mount cans are just another option out there for consumers? Like I said, I love my M4SD comps, and have several that are already prem'd on 14.5 barrels so I'd be thrilled to stick with that system. But at the same time, I got out of AAC cans because I couldn't get comfortable with the level of precision I got using their 51T mounts. I just want to avoid repeating that again!

The major benefit for the Recce 5 versus the M4SDII is a more affordable, lighter weight suppressor that is optimized for carbine length barrels with a solid lock up. You can dual it on any 22caliber precision guns or run it on AR's. Its considerably less expensive than the M4SDII while retaining the same quality of manufacturing. Being 14.5 ounces it retains the game gun feel and allows the user to rapidly pull up on target to acquire a site picture. I think there is a niche of buyers that will see losing 3 ounces as a large plus, but some people aren't concerned with that.

Like you said, it's another option for the consumer. But we wanted something affordable for the market that doesn't compromise quality and the recce 5 does this.

In terms of mounts... It is literally impossible for there to be a gross POI problem or dare say a baffle strike issue by cause of our mounting systems, including the M4SD mount. By going away from ACME threads with ratchets the possibility of the can backing off a tooth or not being completely locked up is non existent. This is a resounding problem that some consumers have noted and we wanted to stay away from it. I think most people have not had issues with ratchet mounts, but some have, enough that we didn't want to screw with it.

I wish we were a big company that could travel around demoing at every large scale shooting function but that is not the case. Over time I think people will understand the quality in our products and what they offer. If you have any specific questions you can hit me up with a PM or call me at the shop. We are always happy to talk to people about our products, design objectives, etc.

In my opinion the M4SD mounting system is fine for M4's and recce/spr builds. I'm sure the ultra accurate conscious precision crowd would feel it lackluster for a precision gun and I would agree, but it's not oriented towards the precision market. It's the best QD system we could engineer that was both A2 FH and M4SD muzzle family compatible. That was the difficulty...creating a mount with backwards compatibility for the A2 as well as our high performance muzzle mount offerings. We are happy with the outcome though with this mounting system.

Additionally, and I think this is important to note, the AAC mounts worked very well as a universal mount, the design theory of which could be applied to nearly every suppressor they made. However, I think most would agree that it's probably not the best solution for precision cans. We created the M4SD mount to satisfy M4 carbine style rifles. This mount cannot be engineered to work on 7.62 offerings, as such we made the taper mounts. The taper mount cans, while not backward compatible with A2 dimensions, offer a precision lock up that I think a large portion of the industry desires for calibers larger than 223.

Thanks,
-Evan

 

[kala_azar]

Evan, thanks for all the info. Would the Recce be acceptable for use on a 10.5" SBR (no mag dumps, etc. I don't abuse any of my cans!)

 

[kala_azar]

And same question for the PHS? I like that it rates higher db than the Recce but still uses the taper mounts... But it needs to be good to go on an SBR too

 

[11B-B4]

Evan, thanks for all the info. Would the Recce be acceptable for use on a 10.5" SBR (no mag dumps, etc. I don't abuse any of my cans!)

In terms of durability they are made entirely of a material that is twice the strength of 718 Inconel at room temperature and as strong at 1600 degrees F. This goes for all centerfire rifle suppressors in our current line up. So the question isn't, "is it durable?". They are arguably the most durable cans on the market. Is it acceptable? I'm not sure it depends on your parameters. There are people that run AAC Mini 4's on SBR's and they have a 22DB reduction. This is not ear safe at all, not even close. I think our M4SDK is ear safe on a 12.5 piston gun, but I have to test that yet as we just got a new microphone in today at the shop. The old one started having random malfunctions so we had to get a new one. I'm talking the Larson davis microphone, not the B&K meter. The meter is fine, mic was bad. Anyway that's neither here nor there.

The point is the M4SDK is a 27 db can and I believe with the way it's balanced it is ear safe on a 12.5 but I have to confirm this next testing session.

The recce 5 has a slightly tighter bore aperture than the M4SDK. M4SDK has a .304" exit aperture, the Recce 5 is .284". So the recce chokes gas a bit more for good performance for it's size on carbine length barrels or precision rifles if you want to dual role it. However on barrels shorter than 14.5" it's pretty gassy at the ejection port. There is a trade off with bore clearance with suppressors. The tighter the bore the lower the sound at the muzzle but the greater the sound at the ejection port. If it's a can that's going to live on a bolt gun you want something tighter bored that will get you more sound performance. Too tight of a bore however and you are worrying about baffle strikes or POI shift due to high pressure in the boreline, etc. That is where good baffle geometry comes in to the equation. With a somewhat liberal bore clearance and high performance baffling you can make good numbers for sound as well as let the can breath for a good balance of sound at muzzle and ear or sound at muzzle and POI shift or all three.

So this is the long winded response.... If it was me I would go with an M4SDII for a can that can cover all the bases down to 10.5" if sound was the primary concern. If POI shift was more important, than the recce 5 would probably serve you better. The reason the PHS 556 has a 35db drop at the muzzle is that it is even a hare tighter than the Recce 5. Not by much, baffling and internal volume are completely different. So it's an apples to oranges comparison.

I knew guys overseas that would drop a combat ear plug, like a surefire EP3 or similar in their ejection port ear if they weren't running tac ear pro to alleviate ejection port gas. This would be effective with the recce 5 or phs 556. With a micro can you would need full on ear pro as they basically only provide blast mitigation which for DA teams is probably enough since they are concerned with overall length of the weapon and they are running tac ear pro anyway.


-Evan

 

[kala_azar]

Fascinating stuff, and great insight into can design! Thank you

I have a lot to think about!