Rifle Scopes Recce optic selection

[patriot_man]

Hello,

I've been looking around to see what optic to put on top of a recce rifle that I'm building. It'll be sporting a .223 16" Lilja stainless steel barrel once it's done and I expect to shoot it out to ~400 yards on the regular and possibly stretch it out to 500 yards. I've given some thought about a 1-4x sight but I'd like a bit more magnification and that led me to decide between the following choices.

My original plan was to go with a Nightforce 2.5-10x32 NXS Compact and to take advantage of an Aimpoint H-1 I have as a back up 1x sight. However I'm second guessing my choice after reading the "Optics Selection" thread tacked on top. I am concerned that 10x is too much glass for the ranges that I expect to shoot at as well as for the rifle. Any thoughts?

Would a Leupold Mark 6 1-6x be good? The only concern I have is the illuminated dot being too small at 1x power due to the FFP design. Perhaps I'll still run the H-1 in this set up as well. Also just to be clear it is only the center that is illuminated on the Mark 6 1-6x?

I don't have much experience in anything higher than a fixed 4x magnification so it'd be great if I could get the opinions of those who have the experience.

Thank you.

 

[AnschutzNerd]

Let your wallet decide for you.

"Best" is 1-8x. Your barrel is sub-MOA, your optic should be too.

1-6x. Sub MOA? Maybe.

1-4x. I can not do sub-MOA with my NF at 4x.

Given that you mentioned the 2.5-10x, the question that stands to be asked: How are you planning to use the rifle? A 16-in Recce is the best all around AR in my eyes and I like the capability of 1x for "all around".

I'm waiting for a 50% off Sale on the Leupold 1-8x....

Nerd

 

[Trigger Monkey]

I used to have a low power variable on my 16" carbine but eventually I replaced it with a NF 2.5-10X24 because I simply found that I wanted more magnification and was willing to give up a 1.1X setting. The higher magnification let me see my hits on target better, it let me see splash at longer ranges so I could make corrections, and the best part was that it wasn't that much heavier or larger than the scope and mounts that it was replacing. If I want to use the scope for targets that are closer in I can dial it down to 2.5X and use it with both eyes open similar to how you'd use an ACOG and the Bindon Aiming Concept for CQB. Of course your idea of using an H-1 would also work perfectly well with an offset mount or a set of offset iron sights instead.

 

[Landon]

I am running a Leupold MK 6 1-6. I came down from a 2.5-10 scope and am much happier with the leupold. It's a better fit for the platform, 10x is over magnification in my opinion. It is good from cqb to the effective range on that system. For practical work for me my max is around 400 yards. I have used it in a shoot house one time for a day and it was just fine with max illumination at 1x. If the dot is to small just dial the magnification up a bit. Indoors it was plenty bright and visible.

My rifle is about 1-1.50 moa with 10 shots and when taking my time clay pigeons out at 400 yards in 1-3 shots is reasonable. At those ranges torso size silhouettes are pretty easy pickings.

How you operate your system will depend on your scope. Max accuracy 10x, max versatility 1-6. Range optic 10x combat optic 1-6. 1-6 is great all around and a big jump, 50%, from a 1-4.

 

[patriot_man]

Thank you for the replies gentlemen.

Let your wallet decide for you.

Given that you mentioned the 2.5-10x, the question that stands to be asked: How are you planning to use the rifle? A 16-in Recce is the best all around AR in my eyes and I like the capability of 1x for "all around".

I'm waiting for a 50% off Sale on the Leupold 1-8x....

Nerd

I was looking to fill the 1x capability with the Aimpoint and keep the NF dialed in at 10x and dial it down when needed for scanning and searching. The rifle probably will occasionally be benched but for the most part I expect a majority of shooting to be long range out in my local BLM and another large chunk of time being used for dynamic shooting.

Definitely agree with you about having the right optic for the right setup but I'm getting conflicting results from my research in whether 6x is enough or if I should go for more or if 10x is too much. 8x sounds like the sweet spot but I haven't really looked into scopes of that range. But I know for sure that my wallet can't handle the MK 8 for now.

I used to have a low power variable on my 16" carbine but eventually I replaced it with a NF 2.5-10X24 because I simply found that I wanted more magnification and was willing to give up a 1.1X setting. The higher magnification let me see my hits on target better, it let me see splash at longer ranges so I could make corrections, and the best part was that it wasn't that much heavier or larger than the scope and mounts that it was replacing. If I want to use the scope for targets that are closer in I can dial it down to 2.5X and use it with both eyes open similar to how you'd use an ACOG and the Bindon Aiming Concept for CQB. Of course your idea of using an H-1 would also work perfectly well with an offset mount or a set of offset iron sights instead.

That's my biggest concern about getting the 1-6x. I definitely want an optic that can keep up with the Lilja and be able to see my hits better but I don't want to have too much glass on the gun. I did have an ACOG at one point and tried the BAC but I didn't really like it. NF + H1 is currently the one that I'm giving serious thought about.

I am running a Leupold MK 6 1-6. I came down from a 2.5-10 scope and am much happier with the leupold. It's a better fit for the platform, 10x is over magnification in my opinion. It is good from cqb to the effective range on that system. For practical work for me my max is around 400 yards. I have used it in a shoot house one time for a day and it was just fine with max illumination at 1x. If the dot is to small just dial the magnification up a bit. Indoors it was plenty bright and visible.

My rifle is about 1-1.50 moa with 10 shots and when taking my time clay pigeons out at 400 yards in 1-3 shots is reasonable. At those ranges torso size silhouettes are pretty easy pickings.

How you operate your system will depend on your scope. Max accuracy 10x, max versatility 1-6. Range optic 10x combat optic 1-6. 1-6 is great all around and a big jump, 50%, from a 1-4.

Do you think going further out with the MK 6 is pushing it? The biggest appeal to me about the 1-6x is the fact that I probably won't need the H-1 as a back up 1x sight. I could probably sell it to fund the difference between the NF NXS and the Leupold.

 

[Landon]

I think that 6x can be good out to 600 yards plus. You really need to figure out what distance you are going to be shooting the most. Also, you need to define accuracy. 10x is always going to be more accurate than 6x. If you're talking torso size your not giving up anything. If you're talking moa or better 10x is really your only choice.

Don't let you barrel define your optic requirements. Let the mission do that. Actual or likely.

2 optics is going to be heavier and you should try it to even see if you like it and find it usable for your situation.

This should be a pretty easy choice, the 2 scopes that you are looking at really serve 2 different practical purposes. Pick which one works for you.

 

[broylz]

with a majority of your shooting being long range like stated, sounds more like a SPR role than a Recce role.

for an SPR role, I would mount the 2.5-10x nightforce you wanted and add the aimpoint H1 on a DD 1 o'clock mount.

for a Recce role, I would be looking at the Super Sniper 1-6x FFP.

 

[ajwcotton]

You may be able to bridge the gap with one optic, have you checked out ths uso sr-8c red dot on 1x and a useable reticle on 8x. You can get it for not too much more than the nf and aimpoint.

 

[BCP]

I think you'll find most people start out with a 1-4 on their 'recce' rifles and end up with something 2.5-10.

For something without bells and whistles the Sightron I have for sale or the Super Sniper 3-9 would be good. Both are 500-600bucks.

Vortex 2.5-10x32 or Nightforce 2.5-10 are the bells-and-whistles options I would look at.

The military seems to put Leupold M2 and M3 scopes in 2.5-8 and 3-10 on their rifles.

There's no law that says you can't put a Nightforce F1 on it if you want to but the larger, heavy scopes kind of ruin the feel of a light rifle.

 

[Biggy]

Deciding on an optic for my recce type build has been by far the most difficult part of it. Unfortunately my corrected shooting eye vision is only 20/40, so I want and need 10x on the optics top end for minute of man and smaller sized targets out at 400 - 600yds. In my situation, reticle line thickness is also a factor and a reticle with to thin of lines is a no go, for me. Also, at what distances will the optic be used at the majority ( but not all) of the time on a recce type rifle, I am thinking for me, maybe 150 to 400yds. An optic with 1x on the bottom and 8 or 10x on top would be nice, but from what I hear (no first hand experience) most if not all have pretty tight eye boxes on the top end, and for me that would be a deal killer. Right now I have pretty well decided on the new Nightforce 2.5-10x42 and only have to decide between the MOAR or MLR 2.0 reticle. I would also be using an Aimpoint Micro in some type of offset mount ( placement yet to be decided on) as a back up sight and for close in targets under 100yds,which I think would be faster than dialing down to 1x. The extra weight of which would be pretty much negated by the new magnesium alloy Keymod rail BCM is coming out with (the BCM KM 13" rail weighs 7.7oz). IMHO, optics selection is usually one of compromise in one area or another, and probably more so on a do it all 5.56 caliber recce type rifle.

 

[mj36639]

I have a Leupold MK 4 MR/T 1.5x5 with SPR reticle on mine. It will do everything you need it to at those ranges.

 

[patriot_man]

I think I'm going to try the 2.5-10x32 and H-1 combo first because I want to give the dual optic setup a try to see if it is a viable option for me down the road in other builds. If I don't like it I'll probably sell the whole setup for a 1-6x scope like the Mark 6.

Perhaps I'll look for a NF 2.5-10x24 as well. Thanks for the replies!

 

[Crosshair]

I'm running a Vortex viper 2-7x32 bdc with a trijicon RMR 1 o'clock mounted on my recce build. I love the 2-7 mag range and if if could get the turrets from the PST line on that scope I'd be permenently happy. But, ill probably eventually up it to the PST 2.5-10x32 for illumination, FFP, and a little more top end. IMO, 10x isn't over scoping if you think you might ever stretch the legs of the 5.56 out to 800y.

 

[black06]

Based on your replies, I would recommend the FFP, H58, 3-18 Mk6

These are the some of the excellent features: Zero-stop turrets, H58 reticule, 44mm light gathering capability, glass quality is excellent, 3-18x, size "footprint".

Scopes I considered were the Swarovski Z6i, Leupold Mk6 1-6, and NF 2.5-10x32. The Mk6 3-18 is 1.6" longer than the 1-6.

I started with a Recce built by Wes Grant with a 1/8 16" Lilja that started out with a 4x32 ACOG.

<a href="http://s12.photobucket.com/user/black006/media/Reece.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a224/black006/Reece.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo Reece.jpg"/></a>

But like yourself I felt that the barrel deserved better than a 4x optic.

From the beginning, I received valuable info from Wes Grant, Kevin Boland and Doc Roberts. Kevin also helped with the current evolution that was built by Marvin Pitts. The only original part is the Lilja barrel.

<a href="http://s12.photobucket.com/user/black006/media/DSC_1940_zps1d6a2d85.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a224/black006/DSC_1940_zps1d6a2d85.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo DSC_1940_zps1d6a2d85.jpg"/></a>

It is also not a CQB gun. I have a 4 MOA T-1 that has been the back-up sight / close in sight. It was on a LaRue LT724 but I am exploring offset ring mounts.

I am fortunate to have a very competent friend mount, zero, and run diagnostics for the Mk6. He was able to hit steel at 700 yards - I need to spend some range time with him to develop my long range skills.

As he put it, it is a sub-moa gun with the right ammo. It likes 5.56 75 gr Hornady TAP.

Good luck!

Thank you for the replies gentlemen.

I was looking to fill the 1x capability with the Aimpoint and keep the NF dialed in at 10x and dial it down when needed for scanning and searching. The rifle probably will occasionally be benched but for the most part I expect a majority of shooting to be long range out in my local BLM and another large chunk of time being used for dynamic shooting.

Definitely agree with you about having the right optic for the right setup but I'm getting conflicting results from my research in whether 6x is enough or if I should go for more or if 10x is too much. 8x sounds like the sweet spot but I haven't really looked into scopes of that range. But I know for sure that my wallet can't handle the MK 8 for now.

That's my biggest concern about getting the 1-6x. I definitely want an optic that can keep up with the Lilja and be able to see my hits better but I don't want to have too much glass on the gun. I did have an ACOG at one point and tried the BAC but I didn't really like it. NF + H1 is currently the one that I'm giving serious thought about.

Do you think going further out with the MK 6 is pushing it? The biggest appeal to me about the 1-6x is the fact that I probably won't need the H-1 as a back up 1x sight. I could probably sell it to fund the difference between the NF NXS and the Leupold.

 

[ranger1183]

This is what I'm putting on my recce rifle. I tried the NF 2.5-10x24 and the 2.5-10x32 and found that having a FFP scope is was much more important than having a specific brand of scope.

VIPER PST 2.5-10X32 FFP RIFLESCOPE

Vortex Optics - Viper PST 2.5-10x32 FFP EBR-1 MRAD

The Before with NF.