Trying to set up 45ACP dies; questions with flare and crimp

[TheGerman]

First time trying pistol ammo on the Dillon 550 and everything was going well as far as the setup until the crimp station came into play.

I'm using:

Dillon 550
Dillon 45ACP dies
Missouri 200gr Lead SWC
Win231

From the reading I've done it seems there is bit more leeway on certain things with pistol rounds (except the powder charge) and I've already have to go over the recommended OAL of 1.190 as the mount of the case went over the 'ogive' and extended it to 1.228 which was the minimum OAL that would cycle/eject regularly as the 1.250 suggested 'standard' I saw on a few forums would not.

So I re-sized the brass setting up the die with a headspace gauge and all is GTG. On the second station the powder die flares/bells the case and it was said to have it flare to around .474 so that you can take .002 off with the crimp as people tend to want somewhere between .469-.472 after the crimp.

So after flaring it to .474, I put it in the bullet seating die and it goes down to .460. This is where I am confused. How do I even get to the crimp if the seating die does this?

The other issue is that it looks like I need to crimp down to .4575 anyways. I took a sized/seated case and kept slowly working the crimp die down until I could get a round to drop freely in/out of the 45ACP barrel/chamber I will be shooting this through. This just adds to the confusion; so does the .469-.472 crimp not even matter as it seems it wouldn't chamber anyways? Am I missing somewhere here? Or am I doing what needs to be done for it to work in my handgun?

 

[doubletap66]

You are making this too hard. The de-cap and siizng die puts it back to a factory size. You adjust the flare in the powder fill station until you can set a bullet on the case and it stays in place, but no more. The seating station seats the bullet and pushes the flare back. You are now back to a straight wall. The pistol rounds require a taper crimp, and a proper crimp is very light. Adjust the crimp until you can push the bullet against the bench with your thumb and not push the bullet deeper. If you crimp too deep, it will deform the bullet and it will move up and down slightly, within the confines on the crimp.

Starting with a SWC bullet was not really the way to go. They can be problematic with seating depth, and not all pistols like to feed them correctly. Ball ammo is easier to learn on, and will feed through anything.

 

[Coopracing]

You are making this too hard. The de-cap and siizng die puts it back to a factory size. You adjust the flare in the powder fill station until you can set a bullet on the case and it stays in place, but no more. The seating station seats the bullet and pushes the flare back. You are now back to a straight wall. The pistol rounds require a taper crimp, and a proper crimp is very light. Adjust the crimp until you can push the bullet against the bench with your thumb and not push the bullet deeper. If you crimp too deep, it will deform the bullet and it will move up and down slightly, within the confines on the crimp.

Starting with a SWC bullet was not really the way to go. They can be problematic with seating depth, and not all pistols like to feed them correctly. Ball ammo is easier to learn on, and will feed through anything.

Could not have said it better, this is sound advice.

 

[wildfowler]

So after flaring it to .474, I put it in the bullet seating die and it goes down to .460. This is where I am confused. How do I even get to the crimp if the seating die does this?

The other issue is that it looks like I need to crimp down to .4575 anyways. I took a sized/seated case and kept slowly working the crimp die down until I could get a round to drop freely in/out of the 45ACP barrel/chamber I will be shooting this through. This just adds to the confusion; so does the .469-.472 crimp not even matter as it seems it wouldn't chamber anyways? Am I missing somewhere here? Or am I doing what needs to be done for it to work in my handgun?

I have the same reloading machine and have the Dillon factory dies. When I "flare" a case in the powder drop station, the case measures .483". When I seat a 200 grain SWC (seated so that the edge of wide wad cutter is at the top of the case mouth for my gun) there is only a minimal amount of flare removal from the seating process. .003" or so.

I'm guessing you may need to check to see if there is a buildup of bullet lube inside the die that might be impacting negatively? Even when I screwed my Dillon seating die all the way down to contact the shell plate which will seat a bullet completely flush with the case mouth, there is still only a negligible amount of flare removed. The best thing about the dillon dies is that they have the retaining clip that allows for die internals to be removed for easy cleaning without having to unscrew the whole die.

For me, I crimp all my rounds down until the drop freely in my case gauge which is about .469-.470".

 

[Facemelter]

Yup,same thing as Doubletap66 posted. The flare does nothing but hold the round in place,it more or less just give you a way of putting the bullet where it needs to be before cramming it down in the case. Taper crimp can go bad very quickly,adjust it in small increments. You will feel it with your fingertip. To much crimp and it will bulg the side of the case.


I love reloading pistol rounds,its so much easier then rifles. But I get the most enjoyment out of making a big batch of 308,sitting there in all of its 168 grain glory in the loading block.

 

[Graham]

Trying to set up 45ACP dies; questions with flare and crimp

There's nothing difficult about, or wrong with, loading lead SWCs.

Flare the lip of the case enough to seat a bullet, but no so much that you have trouble getting the flared case into the crimping die.

Get yourself a chamber guage and taper crimp enough that the rounds slide easily in and our if the guage.

Don't over think it.

 

[Mad_Charlie]

Are you seating and t/crimping in one station? Most folks seat in third station and t/crimp in fourth.

 

[Graham]

Trying to set up 45ACP dies; questions with flare and crimp

Are you seating and t/crimping in one station? Most folks seat in third station and t/crimp in fourth.

Taper crimp is a separate operation.

 

[rduckwor]

I'm loading the very same bullet on the very same press with the Dillon dies. I'm not having the issue with the seating die you report. It's been set up so long, that I have forgotten the metrics of the flare. I can tell you that you can taper crimp all the way down to 0.469 without affecting function or accuracy. My OAL with that bullet is 1.26" with a finger nail's thickness of bearing surface above the case mouth.

Check your seating die for issues if it is squeezing the case mouth down to 0.460.

Good luck.

 

[TheGerman]

Well looks like I fixed it. It was a combination of not flaring enough as I thought you just flared to .002 more than you crimped down to and the way I was measuring the crimped case in my caliper.

For some reason I was measuring (by its diameter) using the smaller 'edges' of the front of the caliper rather than putting the case evenly in the fatter mid part where I had more control and was able to ensure the case was straight. Hammered out .472 repeatedly.

Ended up with an OAL of 1.226 which was the shortest/longest that would eject properly.

Apparently you should learn to load pistol first and then precision rifle as you do overthink it all.

 

[Eastbay]

You are making this too hard. The de-cap and siizng die puts it back to a factory size. You adjust the flare in the powder fill station until you can set a bullet on the case and it stays in place, but no more. The seating station seats the bullet and pushes the flare back. You are now back to a straight wall. The pistol rounds require a taper crimp, and a proper crimp is very light. Adjust the crimp until you can push the bullet against the bench with your thumb and not push the bullet deeper. If you crimp too deep, it will deform the bullet and it will move up and down slightly, within the confines on the crimp.

Starting with a SWC bullet was not really the way to go. They can be problematic with seating depth, and not all pistols like to feed them correctly. Ball ammo is easier to learn on, and will feed through anything.

^ Exactly.