RL-15 Question - .308

[gimpy]

So, I have Varget, but never seem to be impressed by the results. I have been using RL-15 and get amazing results. Problem is, RL-15 is temp sensitive. Took my GAP HRT out today, and only had one Varget load with 175 SMK that looked like it had potential... RL-15 did significantly better. I stacked 4 rounds in the same hole, and the 5th had less than 1/8" paper separating it. The question is, if I get the load developed at ~70 degrees, how much will the group size change with the temperature? I understand that the velocity will change, but what is to be expected for the effect on group size as the seasons change?

 

[JGorski]

I wouldn't worry about it til it gets at least 140F.

 

[40xs]

For me, a working load in warm weather with Re. 17, I've not tried re. 15, will be slower in cold weather and due to me trying to use 208 gr. bullets in cold weather, it opens the group up. Re.17 is not bad and gives good velocity in warm weather, but trying to use heavier bullets in colder weather with re.17 just doesn't work for me. I can only guess that Re.15 gives similar results under same conditions.

 

[pmclaine]

My problem is that no matter what the temp I cant find any RL-15.

 

[Vio515]

Hi Gimpy,

I use RL15/308 and can help you out here...hopefully.

I think it will all depend on the "width" of the node your rifle is in. If your barrel is tolerant of lets say, a .3gn change in powder charge, then you wont notice much change in group size as the pressures ramp up with warmer ambient temps. This happens to be my situation. My velocities change but accuracy remains, just have to get my dope right with the temperatures.......still sorting that out.

Hopefully this helps and please someone if I am way off base here, correct me. I'm somewhat new to the reloading game and this has been my personal experience with this powder and my rifle.

Good luck!

 

[bigedp51]

Because RL-15 is temp sensitive, the military is now using IMR-4064 in their long range sniper ammunition to get top accuracy.

"Cartridge, Caliber 7.62mm Special Ball, Long Range, MK 316 MOD 0 (United States): A 175-grain (11.3 g) round specifically designed for long-range sniping consisting of Sierra MatchKing Hollow Point Boat Tail projectiles, Federal Cartridge Company match cartridge cases and Gold Medal Match primers. The Propellant has been verified as IMR 4064 (per NSN 1305-01-567-6944 and Federal Cartridge Company Contract/Order Number N0016408DJN28 and has a charge weight per the specs of 41.745-grain."

http://www.ammunitionstore.com/content/7.62×51mm NATO.pdf

http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2009infantrysmallarms/tuesdaysessioniii8524.pdf

 

[CavReconScout]

My current node for my Savage 10TR with Reloader 15 runs from 41.2-41.8, so I load at 41.5gr. To date I have been able to chrono this load from 50-90 degrees on a Pro Chrono digital, and the velocity has changed from 2475-2530 fps. The accuracy has been exceptional, and I haven't found any increase in group size from the temp change. Hope this helps.

 

[Rangemaster]

I would love to use RL15 on my 308 loads, but right now it's been hard to find.

 

[gimpy]

I should've mentioned that I cannot play with length on these rounds. The rifle has the lands so short that SAAMI length is crammed in to the lands.

 

[r2shooter]

Just throwing this out there.
I was told Norma 203B is suppose to really close to RL-15 but not as temperature sensitive from a shop in Memphis who I believe to be a reliable source.
I purchased a 1# & plan to do some testing. Will let you know the results...

 

[Darkside-Six]

not to hijack.....but I just found a shit load of R15. I've looked all over for it....local gun shops, online, cabelas...couln't find it anywhere.

then someone refered me to a local guy who owns an auto transmision shop and has a hole in the wall guns & ammo business ran out of the side. I guess he's been doing it for a long time. I stopped by this week and when he asked me what I was looking for and I told him Reloader 15 he says "got that in 5lb or 1lb how much do you want?" then he opens his room up and he had about 25lbs of R15. same in Varget. he said if he doesn't have something in stock he can usually get it in about a week. prices where good......i felt like i hit the jackpot. best kept secret arounf right there.

anyways, keep checking around, i se R15 pop up every once in a while on gunbroker.

 

[JRM83]

AR-COMP is good stuff as well. Alliant claims it as a temp-insensitive reformulation of RL15. I've played around with it some and had some pretty excellent results.

 

[r2shooter]

AR-COMP is good stuff as well. Alliant claims it as a temp-insensitive reformulation of RL15. I've played around with it some and had some pretty excellent results.

I've been playing w/the AR Comp myself but only in .223 so far & I like. Haven't tried it in .308.

 

[VJJPunisher]

The whole "temp sensitive" is over exaggerated in my opinion. For the military's perspective where they deploy to any country in th world and expect one load to do it all, this might be a consideration but the average shooter is not seeing temp differences that they are referring to.

I have been using pretty much exclusive rl15 in my 308 loads for goin on 8 years or so, I have shot my m118lr clone load in 3degrees in Missouri to 105 degrees in Georgia with no noted degradation in accuracy.

All I'm saying is don't make a powder call on Internet talk of "temp sensitivity", I haven't harnessed the accuracy that I get out of rl15 with anything else yet. Not saying its the end all best powder but don't write it off because of the temp talk. Just remember the military's expectation of a single load in any climate in any country is tough on any recipe combo, and that's not what the vast majority of us are gonna run into anyway

 

[VJJPunisher]

I mean what I meant to say was........it's crap, don't buy it, leave it on the shelf, it's way too temp sensitive, this is not the powder you're looking for, move along and let other suckers waste money on it(me)

 

[BobinNC]

I mean what I meant to say was........it's crap, don't buy it, leave it on the shelf, it's way too temp sensitive, this is not the powder you're looking for, move along and let other suckers waste money on it(me)

+ 1 million

Also don't use RL-15 because it may: reduce your sperm count, and give you bad breath. In fact don't even touch a package of it, as it may give you herpes.

Just stand in front of the gun shop yelling "Varget, Varget, Varget" when they deliver that no good rotten RL-15 and you'll be much better off........

 

[BobinNC]

Because RL-15 is temp sensitive, the military is now using IMR-4064 in their long range sniper ammunition to get top accuracy.

"Cartridge, Caliber 7.62mm Special Ball, Long Range, MK 316 MOD 0 (United States): A 175-grain (11.3 g) round specifically designed for long-range sniping consisting of Sierra MatchKing Hollow Point Boat Tail projectiles, Federal Cartridge Company match cartridge cases and Gold Medal Match primers. The Propellant has been verified as IMR 4064 (per NSN 1305-01-567-6944 and Federal Cartridge Company Contract/Order Number N0016408DJN28 and has a charge weight per the specs of 41.745-grain."

http://www.ammunitionstore.com/content/7.62×51mm NATO.pdf

http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2009infantrysmallarms/tuesdaysessioniii8524.pdf

I find the use of IMR-4064 as a temperature replacement for RL-15 puzzling. Several (more than 5 at least) years back Hodgdons did a velocity spread test from 0-125 F on 7.62x51mm using a 168gr OTM bullet. Their data showed the most temperature sensitive powder in their test to be IMR 4895. Hodgdons data was on their website but has since been removed.

A list of the Hodgdons data from my notes is below, but the highlight is IMR-4064 (46 FPS delta) was 4 degrees less sensitive than RL-15 (50 FPS delta). So yes, RL-15 is temp sensitive, but so is IMR-4064. I used to use a bunch of RL-12, in my 5.56mm and 358 Win, and it was was relatively temp insensitive compared to the rest of Reloader series, so of course they discontinued it....

Velocity spread in FPS between 0-125 degrees F:

1. H4350: 4 (FPS)
2. Varget: 8
3. H4831C: 10
4. RL 12: 26
5. AA4350: 29
6. AA2460: 36
7. IMR 4064: 46
8. VIT 550: 49
9. RL 15: 50
10. VIT N140: 50
11. AA2520: 63
12. IMR 4350: 67
13. RL22: 75
14. RL 19: 94
15. AA3100: 113
16. W 748: 114
17. VIT N560: 121
18. IMR 4831: 127
19. IMR 4895: 166

 

[Fatelvis]

Wow! Thanks for that list Bob, it's an eye-opener! I like to see some finite numbers to compare the powder's sensitivity.

 

[Xtremegunnr]

Reloader 15 is great in temps from 20 to 95 in my opinion. I dont have a place to shoot that is 125 degrees or in the middle of syberia. Im at 43 grains for a conservative load and it always shoot consistently. I have used 45 or 45.5 but it doesnt like that as much.

 

[neeltburn]

I see one post here were someone was able to get RE-15.. I have not been able to get any since the end of April, LGS has not seen any. Were is it all going?

 

[6xcKY]

Sportsmans Warehouse in upstate KY has plenty of 15/17 last visit I made this past week. I was running the same load as you pretty much. (44gr, 175gr) and I didnt notice much different at all the first couple hundred yards. Further out, you will notice a few .#mils difference but given everything else you also have to take in accountancy like DA, Baro, etc., you will be fine...

 

[FunkBass2008]

My problem is that no matter what the temp I cant find any RL-15.

LOL, It's temp sensitive and shy...

In reality. I've never really understood the temp-sensitive argument. I've seen just as much wackiness happen with my Varget loads on cool vs. hot days, as I have with Re-15...

 

[FunkBass2008]

And also, I've had similar experiences. I have done quite a few different 308 loads with Re15 and Varget, the best groups I got were with Re15...

 

[Triggerf16]

I've been using Norma 203B instead of RL15. Seems to work very well. 155 Scenars in 308 up around 3000fps. One node at 2970, and another at 3020. 48-49.3gr, 2.90" OAL

 

[Flyingbullseye]

not to hijack.....but I just found a shit load of R15. I've looked all over for it....local gun shops, online, cabelas...couln't find it anywhere.

then someone refered me to a local guy who owns an auto transmision shop and has a hole in the wall guns & ammo business ran out of the side. I guess he's been doing it for a long time. I stopped by this week and when he asked me what I was looking for and I told him Reloader 15 he says "got that in 5lb or 1lb how much do you want?" then he opens his room up and he had about 25lbs of R15. same in Varget. he said if he doesn't have something in stock he can usually get it in about a week. prices where good......i felt like i hit the jackpot. best kept secret arounf right there.

anyways, keep checking around, i se R15 pop up every once in a while on gunbroker.

Care to PM me where said shop is? I'd drive over to the other side of the state for more varget.