Advanced Marksmanship Lateral movement from head on stock?

[SPAK]

Hey guys,

I'm still learning quite a bit, and I'm trying to work on my NPOA. I know there's another thread on going on but I didn't want to hijack the thread.

In anycase, what I am noticing is that when I rest the full weight of my head on the stock it induces some lateral movement of the cross hairs to the left. My sight picture after recoil goes left as well.

I've been trying to only induce vertical movement when I place my head on the stock to raise the cross hairs into my POA. I've been closing my eyes, breath 2 to 3 times and relax, open my eyes and see where my NPOA is. Adjust body and rifle from there.

I'm trying to get as straight behind the rifle I as I can. I my cross hairs are moving I would guess 10" or so off my POA.
Shooting off rear bag and harris bipod prone.

Any help would be great.

 

[ARCOREY]

Re: Lateral movement from head on stock?

I had the same problem. I adjusted my shoulders to be more of a 90 degrees to the rifle and moved my hips the direction the rifle was jumping seems to help a little more. It doesn't feel natural, but it seems to help.

 

[SPAK]

Re: Lateral movement from head on stock?

If you move your hips in the direction of the muzzle jump I would have thought that would make the muzzle jump in that direction worse would it not?

I guess I need to experiment a little more and figure out what I'm doing wrong.

My common sense tells me to try to limit the pressure on the stock, but then again, for repeatability I need to rest the full weight of my head on the stock otherwise I'll have that variablitity in my stock weld...

 

[ARCOREY]

Re: Lateral movement from head on stock?

Just think of it as the saying goes "every action has an opposite but equal reaction". To much force on the right side will push the rifle left. Shooting left, move left and push back to center. It's about being square with the rifle bore getting your spine and the barrel running parallel lines.

 

[armymedic.2]

Re: Lateral movement from head on stock?

+1
what corey said

 

[PCR]

Re: Lateral movement from head on stock?

I've been having lateral groups lately myself with a specific rifle. I'll end up stringing a few shots up to .75" to the left. I'm using an IOR 3X18 scope which has a short distance from the turret housing to the ocular lens and a stock with a 14" length of pull. This pushes my shoulder back as I try to get my head forward enough to get proper sight picture with the short scope. Been thinking the setup isn't helping.

I seem to shoot better groups if I position myself inline with the rifle and shoulders squared.

 

[SPAK]

Re: Lateral movement from head on stock?

I think I found something yesterday during my dry firing. If I take my hands off the rifle and relax, my cheekweld as it is will slide the rear of the rifle to the right. If I balance my cheek bone on the top of the stock more in the center I can relax and the rifle dosen't slide to the right.

If I'm relaxing through my shot that would probably cause the Left muzzle jump.

I'm going to try this at the range soon as I can and see if it makes a difference.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Lateral movement from head on stock?

When a lateral shift in cheekweld creates a corresponding lateral crosshair movement and/or POI alteration, my first response is to confirm/correct for parallax.

IMHO, it's the leading cause of inconsistent/"unexplained' horizontal stringing. Vertical stringing too, maybe. Taken togather, a lack of understanding about parallax is probably the cause of at least half the size of a lot of 'groups'.

Greg

 

[SPAK]

Re: Lateral movement from head on stock?

Greg, are you saying that the lateral force on the stock from my cheek weld is not as significant as parralax error??

I've been trying to get the rifle to recoil straight back and my recoil pattern is consistently moving the muzzle to the left.

When I was practice acquiring my NPOA and dry firing, I noticed that frequently when I relax and place the full weight of my head on the stock, the butt stock will slide to the right.

I haven't been to the range to confirm this but I adjusted my stock so that I can find a cheek weld that is more on top of the stock with the pressure in the vertical plane. This way when I'm fully relaxed the butt stock doesn't slide to the right.

My groups themselves are actually very good at 1/4 to 1/2 moa. But trying to spot my own shots is difficult with my sight picture moving left off the target.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Lateral movement from head on stock?

You're talking about recoil characteristics (I think). I'm talking about subtle influences that affect aiming error. I think it would be entirely too conjectural to make any claims about which has more influence, and I prefer not to try. All I'm saying is that if parallax isn't considered and ruled out, it's gonna influence the shot.

 

[SPAK]

Re: Lateral movement from head on stock?

Gotcha, you are correct, I'm mostly talking about the recoil of the rifle. But I understand about the parralax correction. I make it a point to make sure my sight picture is parralax free when I settle in.

Thanks for the input greg.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: Lateral movement from head on stock?

All,

The stockweld, as well as all other factors of a steady position must be as muscularly relaxed as they are consistent-to a molecular level, if putting bullets right-in-there is what it's all about. Remember, upon pulling the trigger, the line of bore moves from where it's rested, in angle and arc, to line of bore at bullet exit. If there is any divergence in this angle and arc, as induced by inconsistent control, the bullet will not go where aimed. Make control between shooter, gun and ground perfect, and good shooting will be assured.

 

[bmt]

Reviving an old thread. Shot this group today, off a bipod and standing/leaning on a boulder. Range is 50 yards (lasered). 22LR/CZ 452 stock rifle with Leupold 6x42. Ammo is american eagle HP

This type of stringing is common on more than 1 rifle (tikka T3 in 223 at 100 yards) . Practice tips?

Thanks,

BMT

 

[Darkside-Six]

sounds like you are leaning too much on the side of the stock. You want to have your shoulders and hips both square to the target. Are you loading your bipod properly? by making sure you settle into the bipod and load it good you can eliminate some of this.

 

[bmt]

Thanks. I will work on it.

BMT

 

[Sterling Shooter]

There are 8 sources for horizontal dispersion:

Varying head pressure
Movement of left elbow
High vertical position
High right shoulder
Jerking the trigger
No stability of position
Change in sight picture
Failure to maintain proper eye/sight alignment

You do not need to isolate the origin of error, just focus on rebuilding the position consistently from shot to shot. That will require raising your awareness for the elements and factors of a steady position, most importantly, transmitting the stability of the ground into your position with bone/artificial support.

 

[bmt]

Thank you, SS