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Winter Shell - to ski in

medicjim

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Jun 24, 2002
164
20
New Jersey, USA
So, my eldest daughter is 11 now and I really want her to get better at skiing. I'm 47 and in damn good shape, so I figure I can probably still take the beating. I live in northern New Jersey, so the 1000' drop resorts in eastern PA are an easy day trip…plus we can be in southern Vermont in around 5 hours.

My ski clothing is out dated and non-layering…it's too hot for PA most of the time and cannot scale to those -10 degree windy days in Vermont. I'm thinking I need a decent outer shell jacket and pants…probably with a snow skirt and wristlets since I'll be on the ground at least a few times as a get back to my former "intermediate" skill level.

I'd love to hear some feedback from guys that actually ski on what works for them…. I'd like to narrow down to a few manufacturers and then shop features…. a few I've looked at already would be; outdoor research, mountain hardware and Columbia…. it's hard to tell what features are NEED vs MARKETING bs….. I could also go ape sh&t and buy arcteryx, but I'm not sure I need to for a jacket that will only get used 20-30 times per year and never more than 30 minutes from a warm lodge.
 
Check out sierratradingpost.com.
Never pay retail.
Northface, Mountain Hardware, Patagonia, Columbia, OR, all good brands, should work.
Go insulated if you anticipate -10. Around 20-30 a shell with fleece layers is fine. Get good gloves.
Powder skirt needed only if you are a powder hound. Pit zips are handy to vent.
Sturdy pants. I like suspenders for comfort. Some zippers for easy on/off.
I patrol in Patagonia gear, it lasts forever.
 
I have the Arc-teryx Alpha SV jacket. It is the best jacket I have ever owned and I have been skiing for over 30 years. I also used this jacket for backcountry search and rescue missions. It never failed me, ever. However, in your case, you might want to check out what is available at REI. They have their own line of outerwear and it is pretty good.

As for the best material, Gore-tex all the way. It is hands down the best for abrasion resistance, durable water repellence and breathability.
 
I just bought a jacket / fleet from Triple Aught Design and plan to use if for snowshoeing in MN. It's a more athletic cut and very nicely designed and crafted. Down from there, Mountain Hardware and Columbia have always treated me well.
 
okay. i'd start slowly. it's a girl, so her heat requirements are probably higher than what the boys are used to. also, you ought to break it down into different areas of the body, and think in onion layers so that you can adjust for the weather conditions easily.

-> gloves: for gloves, i got my gf hestra gloves. i can't stand them as they are way to hot for me. she considers them 'warm enough'. you ought to consider getting a thin inner glove (5 fingers) that is fleece, neopren or similar, plus an outer mitten glove that is water and wind-tight. the outer one should be long enough to easily extend over the sleeves of the jacket.

-> hat: get some that notably are longer/further down over the ears. i like woolish ones on the top, with a windstopper fleece around the ear area. these works also good for my gf, but she has rather short hair. if your daughter has lots of hair ... don't ask me. it's usually a pain in the neck to control that mess of hair in strong wind + winter ;)

-> jacket: again, multilayer. at the mountain rescue we get issued a rather thin inner wind-breaker fleece that you can easily wear while skiing in better weather. just need reasonable clothes underneath and males usually are fine with that. for worse weather, you should get something that is (like the outer mittens) wind and rain proof. also, most of the more recent jackets have zippers under the armpits so that you can adjust the climate a bit here ... so you can be save against rain but yet have fresh air towards the body. personally I highly recommend you to make sure that both the inner shell as well as the outer storm-jacket notably go below the buttocks. i hate a cold back, and even worse cold kidneys. having the jackets extend over the buttocks helps alot. especially when you sit on the ski-lift, short jackets tend to not properly cover the lower back. with respect to size: rather buy them a bit too large. if it's cold, you can then easily add a thick pullover and be fine if your daughter needs more warmth. a pull-string at the bottom of the jackets (almost all quality jackets have something of that sort) allow you to have a little bit larger jackets without a disadvantage (say - wind blowing towards your torso)

-> trousers: i prefer trousers that: a) are wide enough at the bottom to cover the ski boots. that way you make sure that no snow can fall into the boots from the top. here, a zipper or some straps usually do the trick. starting at the knees towards the bottom, it should be a decent material such that a stumble with the skis does not necessarily cut up the trousers on the very first day. it's also a bit of a safety measure for the legs. from the knees upwards, I prefer a rather thin material that allows the air to get out. skiing is sport and my legs tend to become very warm. so while i keep my torso warm, i like legs to be closer to the fresh air to get rid of some of the heat. get a pair of 'over-trousers' that can be opened on the sides entirely and allow you/her to be entered/added without getting out of the boots. they come in little bags, the volume about 1l. if the weather turns bad, get them out, get into them directly on the slope, and no matter whether it's rain or a stiffer wind ... you'll be sit in it. those over-trousers ought to be strengthened at the bottom on the inside of the legs to withstand friction from extended rubbing of the ski boots.

-> underwear: on the top, get her a full-sleeve merino underwear shirt. for underneath the pullover (or whatever she wears as top layer). for the undertrousers, get 3/4 trousers. within the ski-boots she'll wear thick socks and the boots go up rather high. 3/4 undertrousers are short enough to not create a very thick (or rather too thick) amount of clothes at the area where the boots end. long ones usually make everything ... too filled up and reduce the joy of skiing. shorter ones are hardly worth it. make sure that those two pieces (shirt+trousers) have a rather looseish fit. they ought to trap air but should _not_ restrict blood flow to the extremities. this actually applies to all clothes. there very moment blood flow is restricted, she will 'feel' cold. so again: rather a loose fit, but make sure that the air is trapped.

final comment in that section: during the last ski tours (and summer climbs) with my gf, i noticed that her sports bra was not drying fast enough. especially during extended amounts of hikes, it became ... unnecessarily unpleasant for her to wear that damp piece of cloth. i checked back with my female climbing +hiking friends and, interestingly, several of them all agree/recommend that 'anita' is a good company to buy sports bras that dry really quickly and provide a very good hold of the chest area. not sure whether your daughter needs that, but it's something you might want to keep in mind.

so while i didn't talk about any company names (almost) - especially because i don't know to which brands you have _hands on_ access to (so that she can try the equipment in person) - i do hope that i gave you some points to consider.

maybe my final suggestion: make sure that _she_ enjoys it. and not that she does something that only you enjoy. that's why you ought to include her in the decision make for the equipment, colours etc. explain/show her why you'd recommend this and that, but still let her _take part in every aspect_. if she does it on her own, she might do it _with_ you. and not only _for_ you ...
 
How much coin do you want to spend?

I assume you want ski specific clothing? Yoyoing is not for me, yes I have done it but I did more XC, touring and backcountry alpine touring.

Anything will work, no need to speed $500 on a jacket and $500 pants to go yoyo a few times a year close to the lodge. Groomed trails really do not call for face plant clothing but I would still get a snow skirt jacket and ski pants...high waist with suspenders maybe a bib or short bib, reinforced knees and elbows and cuff for skis boots. As you know, sliding down the hill and causing a yard sale, if you look good you should ski good so $1000 gumby suit may not be the best idea but in all honesty, even yoyo skiing its a good idea to keep as much snow from being forced under clothing and to protect the core.

Brands, look at Patagonia too, Columbia and MH are the same company now owned by a conglomerate. TNF is owned by Vanity Fair. One reason I like Patagucci, still owned by US and Yvonne is a superb guy. Pata has a discount blem sigh to order from. I would stay away from ski specific clothing in ski shops, pricey and Euro colour.

Spend your coin of boots first, then skis that will make skiing more enjoyable than clothing, if you rent, buy boots and rent skis but again, if you look good you are good!
 
Check out sierratradingpost.com.
Never pay retail.
Northface, Mountain Hardware, Patagonia, Columbia, OR, all good brands, should work.
Go insulated if you anticipate -10. Around 20-30 a shell with fleece layers is fine. Get good gloves.
Powder skirt needed only if you are a powder hound. Pit zips are handy to vent.
Sturdy pants. I like suspenders for comfort. Some zippers for easy on/off.
I patrol in Patagonia gear, it lasts forever.

Some really good comments here in many of these posts.

I will add that a powder skirt is more than used for powder, it is a great baffle to keep air from getting in your jacket on a run or on the lift.

Also, are you a name brand guy?

For ski gear, I never pay retail, and I generally buy used as well from all the name brand shoppers who go a few times a year and over buy their gear.

I have a Northface jacket I bought secondhand in 1999 that I still use.

My pants are Grenade Gear - again, I bought used and I prefer suspenders as well for the chimney effect of heating & cooling myself.

I wear old military mittens.

Now, with my non-matching patched together gear I am not allowed to ski DEER VALLEY, but, I also don't have dimension lumber up my butt like most of those snobs anyway.

I ski Alta, Brighton, Solitude and SNOWBIRD!

Good skiing is 30 minutes away and Utah is super gun friendly - I love Utah.

~Will
 
I use to be pretty heavy into cross country skiing in sub zero temps (Western Alaska). Skiing it self keeps you warm, the problem is when you stop.

I always like wool, wool sweaters and wool pants. On my ruck I carried the shell of the army parka, when you stop it keeps the wind off and holds in the heat.

Now I'm old and my winter travel is on a 4 wheeler. I still wear my wool but I keep the parka shell over it.

Abn%20Det.jpg
 
First off I will add to what others have said....never pay retail. Find stuff you like and go try it on locally to see what sizes you fit in (like shoes a 10 in a nike is a 9 in new balance type thing). Then go online and look for LAST YEARS offerings. If you can find one in the size you want you can save some good money (as in 100-150 or more for a new jacket). Honestly year to year there are not many changes in the same jackets.

As for what i use. I use two FlyLow jackets. Great company and they are great for the prices.

Flylow Higgins - This is my more "technical" jacket. Its just a shell so wont offer the best warmth. But you can layer under it. ive used this plenty of times out in the backcountry and climbing peaks. With a good mid layer it works just fine. Ive had it for ~4 years no and it still is in great shape. No rips or tears and i do ski in the trees from time to time and its held up to that abuse. For resort skiing though i go to my other jacket.

Flylow BA Puffy - I have the older version which doesnt have the silly looking pockets on the front. but this is a great jacket. Same durability as the Higgins jacket. It packs down pretty small too so i have taken it in the back country on colder days. Ive used it plenty in the mid 20's with just a abse layer and tshirt on and been fine. but for resort skiing i usually add in a mid weight fleece though.

Both jackets have handled all day rains and kept me dry. They have both stood up to abuse from tree branches. The Puffy keeps me warm on the colder days. The higgins is great for layering. The puffy is great for colder days with layering or the 20-40 degree days without layering.


Pants wise im no help. Im still using the same 100 dollar pair of helly hansen pants i got like 10 years ago. Though i have been eyeing the FlyLow Chemical or Stash pants.

Theres tons of smaller companies offering gear that work just as good as Pattaguci, Arc'teryx, or other high priced jackets. I would rather support a smaller company where the owners actually use the gear over companies where the CEO's have probably never even been int he back country and half of them probably dont even ski. But thats just me.
 
I have a north face APEX jacket that I wear snowboarding when I go if it's not too cold. Windproof and water resistant. I never had issues with it soaking up snow or anything and I wreck a LOT. It's lightweight (to me) and is one of my favorite jackets.
 
I use to be pretty heavy into cross country skiing in sub zero temps (Western Alaska). Skiing it self keeps you warm, the problem is when you stop.

I always like wool, wool sweaters and wool pants. On my ruck I carried the shell of the army parka, when you stop it keeps the wind off and holds in the heat.

Now I'm old and my winter travel is on a 4 wheeler. I still wear my wool but I keep the parka shell over it.

Abn%20Det.jpg

We had the same gear in 1990/1991 at Cold Weather Instructor Course at Camp Ripley Minnesota.

Worked for me down to -30 F, pulling an ahkio sled during the day and sleeping in improvised shelters at night!

Some folks cannot wear wool though...

I love the stuff. Keeps you warm even when wet!

~Will
 
Mountain Hardware, or Arterex

However, I have switched to using my Sitka gear shell with a patagonia insulated sweater underneath now. Its lighter. However, its not really that cold here in CO - its dry, and with the Sun the temperature feels a lot warmer than back east. I used to live in upstate NY, work in VT, and the -30 days sucked. Only time I heard of a ski area shutting down because it was too cold. -125F windchill at Whiteface in Lake Placid...
 
Winter Shell - to ski in

Last season Skibum and I did four ski areas in four days: Vail, Breckenridge, Beaver Creek and Keystone. At 12,000 feet, with a very strong wind, it can get quite cold. I had a fleece over UnderArmor and my old U.S. North Face mountain jacket as a shell. I was only a bit cold halfway up the chairlifts, and that went away once I got going.

For Vermont and NH I usually wear a Rab light shell, but with a heavier fleece underneath. Wind chill in the east sucks and the skiing gets icy.

... But there's something about skiing knee-high powder at 11,000 feet, to the sound of the avalanche bombs going off, that doesn't suck. Go west, young man.
 
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Knee high powder @ 11k has nothing on skiing the range, pure cold smoke. I lost all of my digi pix years ago due to computer dump with no back up but here is my base camp 1998, one of the few pix that I have left.





This is one of the best ski runs in the world. Talk about cold smoke!!




Been to Tohelluride a few times before it was taken over, Utah up Provo area a couple times. That is about it for south 49 skiing.


Guiding, temp here was around -20f a few miles in, up the creek the has an S turn to the right and the bottom drops out of the mercury where I build my camps...this trip was -35f but have seen it below -50f here. I had one trip that is was so cold we could not or would not get out of sleeping bags with the stove roaring inside the tent to try to keep warm.




And yes for those in Alaska before you ask, that is me on all the TV, new papers and magazines seen in my famous once piece suit.
 
Winter Shell - to ski in

Holy shit. I'm jealous as hell. That looks like expedition terrain. I half expect to see Mark Twight walk by me with an alpine pack and some power bars, or Fred Beckey sleeping in his car. Both interesting people, BTW.
 
Holy shit. I'm jealous as hell. That looks like expedition terrain. I half expect to see Mark Twight walk by me with an alpine pack and some power bars, or Fred Beckey sleeping in his car. Both interesting people, BTW.

Fred Becky, I got asked to guide or lets see how it was put it to me, to help him summit the Tordrillo Mountains, be in the history books I believe is how he presented it to me, this was around 2003 - 2005, I was not interested at the time dealing with attitudes any longer.

Mark Twight, not quite the personalty he portraits once you meet him face to face.

Now you got me reminiscing about my golden days.
 
Winter Shell - to ski in

I've never climbed with Fred, but I've had a few beers with him. I understand. But, a cool guy.

I remember Mark talking about doing his first ascent of 'The Reality a Bath', a grade VII waterfall. I think it was 1987 or '88. We thought he was crazy. As it turns out, he was just stubborn. If I'm not mistaken it's still unrepeated.
 
I've never climbed with Fred, but I've had a few beers with him. I understand. But, a cool guy.

I remember Mark talking about doing his first ascent of 'The Reality a Bath', a grade VII waterfall. I think it was 1987 or '88. We thought he was crazy. As it turns out, he was just stubborn. If I'm not mistaken it's still unrepeated.

Phone call went something like, want to climb with Fred Becky, what and where, I am coming up to put a route up in Tordrillos and looking for someone to get me up there, it will get your name in the books with Becky. Talked in 3rd person and was quite rude and arrogant.

Rumors say it was but last I know there is no actual proof. Like most of the routes, if repeated not the same conditions or line. We got route wowwie zowwie, pretty stiff and one Feb good freeze thaw come, it filled in and got soft so everyone was running to knock it their ht list. I was in Banff climbing shop in 86 and was talking to some climber getting beta after hearing of Gimme Shelter, found out it was the one of them who put it up, Kevin Dolye if I remember correct.

I went to check out Slipstream 93, white dragon had me tuck my tail and run.

The glory days when I could do one arm pull ups, now I can barely get up from my lounger using both arms and both legs.
 
Winter Shell - to ski in

Slipstream is only about an hour off the highway, but it is a monster. I've never attempted it. For me, climbing is about being out there and putting yourself out there, not about speed records. I think Twight solo'd it in a few minutes over two hours. '88 if memory serves. That's unbelievable. It looked like a very long day's climb to me, with the very real possibility of things going wrong and having to spend the night - spend it climbing, I mean. And that would not be a good thing if there's new snow, or any wind. I would imagine that getting off of it and back down in the dark would be a trick.
 
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