I occasionally will get a flyer and can't seem to figure out where they come from.I shoot a trued 700 action with a brux barrel,bedded,B&C stock weigh my brass and each charge.Now don't get me wrong this rifle rocks one of the best barrels I have ever used.Any suggestions?
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Have you noticed if it's a particular shot in a string of shots?
What size group are you shooting and how far out does the flyer end up?
What bullet are you using?
What size group are you shooting and how far out does the flyer end up?
What bullet are you using?
Welcome to my world!! 99 percent of the very good shooters I know will tell you 99% of the time it's the indian not the arrow?? Like today I am shooting at 300 yards and have 8 shots in the 10 ring I mean dead nuts and then bang, one in the 8 ring, followed by five more in the 10 ring? It's like WTF!! If you get it figured out let me know, cause I sure can't figure it out.
Diego
Diego
Could be mirage and not pulling the trigger right at the same time/place on the "floating" target for every shot.
There's more to consistent ammo than just weighing brass(sorting by water capacity is more important than weight, btw) and weighing charges, even down to the granule.
You have to consider bullet concentricity, neck tension consistency, and seating depth.
And beyond that, there's still sorting bullets by weight(can vary as much as 2 grains in some lots, but usually 1 grain or less in bullets under 200 grains but still needs to be considered), diameter(usually within a couple ten thousandths but the lot needs to be sampled to verify consistency), actual bearing surface area consistency, and bullet meplate uniformity are all factors to be concerned with if you really want to eliminate the ammo as the culprit of your flyers.
I've decided that anything under 3/4 MOA consistently is good enough for me, and I almost always have a flyer in a 5 shot group and still have that 3/4 MOA accuracy.
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There's more to consistent ammo than just weighing brass(sorting by water capacity is more important than weight, btw) and weighing charges, even down to the granule.
You have to consider bullet concentricity, neck tension consistency, and seating depth.
And beyond that, there's still sorting bullets by weight(can vary as much as 2 grains in some lots, but usually 1 grain or less in bullets under 200 grains but still needs to be considered), diameter(usually within a couple ten thousandths but the lot needs to be sampled to verify consistency), actual bearing surface area consistency, and bullet meplate uniformity are all factors to be concerned with if you really want to eliminate the ammo as the culprit of your flyers.
I've decided that anything under 3/4 MOA consistently is good enough for me, and I almost always have a flyer in a 5 shot group and still have that 3/4 MOA accuracy.
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What does "flyer" mean? Does it mean that a bullet went astray due to no fault of the gun or the shooter?
I think the term flyer should be banned. A bullet that's away from other closely grouped ones is still part of the group for whatever reason. I also contest the saying that it's usually the Indian and not the gun at least in my case. If you are generally able to keep bullets in a 1 inch group at 100 yards, it's unreasonable to believe that while shooting as you usually do a bullet 3 inches apart from the group is your fault.
That's 3 bullets into 0.042 inches at 100 yards. Believe it or not that's bogus too. I know that neither myself or my gun are that good. In fact, that group was shot with a rifle that I couldn't count on better than 1.5 to 2 inch 100 yard groups from.
I think the term flyer should be banned. A bullet that's away from other closely grouped ones is still part of the group for whatever reason. I also contest the saying that it's usually the Indian and not the gun at least in my case. If you are generally able to keep bullets in a 1 inch group at 100 yards, it's unreasonable to believe that while shooting as you usually do a bullet 3 inches apart from the group is your fault.
That's 3 bullets into 0.042 inches at 100 yards. Believe it or not that's bogus too. I know that neither myself or my gun are that good. In fact, that group was shot with a rifle that I couldn't count on better than 1.5 to 2 inch 100 yard groups from.
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You have to also remember that 3 shots does not a group make, here on the hide.
Flyers would not be one of 5 bullets in a group 3 inches away from the rest at 100 yards. That would be a straight up pulled shot. A flyer would be a ragged hole group of 4 shots and then a 5th shot that made its own hole, usually only a quarter inch or so away. It may still be a sub half MOA group, but would have been sub quarter MOA without that "flyer".
And they typically only become flyers when it seems to happen with every 5 shot group attempted with that rifle and there's always that one shot that opens the group.
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Flyers would not be one of 5 bullets in a group 3 inches away from the rest at 100 yards. That would be a straight up pulled shot. A flyer would be a ragged hole group of 4 shots and then a 5th shot that made its own hole, usually only a quarter inch or so away. It may still be a sub half MOA group, but would have been sub quarter MOA without that "flyer".
And they typically only become flyers when it seems to happen with every 5 shot group attempted with that rifle and there's always that one shot that opens the group.
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These, imo, are examples of flyers. Same rifle, same day, flyers:
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not reading or picking up a gust of wind, mirage, grip pressure different on that particular shot and other variances like cheekweld, eye alignment, trigger squeeze, and other fundamentals. if feeding from a mag maybe the bullet is getting slightly deformed if it's the same shot in a sequence of shots, etc etc. maybe it's the "cold bore / cold shooter syndrome" on the first shot, or on the other end the barrel getting hotter / fouled toward the end of the group.
without shooting in an indoor range taking out environmental variances, and having the rifle solidly mounted and remotely set off, fliers are what they are - usually caused by the human interaction messing with the mechanical advantages. "doing your part" on every shot really is an impractical goal. as before, usually the indian and not the arrow, or just about every experienced handloader with a stable rifle build will only have 1 hole on every one of their targets, no matter how many shots are fired.
it's usually more the case of a "pull" or loss of concentration on a given shot than a "flier", especially using handloads and a stable rifle.
without shooting in an indoor range taking out environmental variances, and having the rifle solidly mounted and remotely set off, fliers are what they are - usually caused by the human interaction messing with the mechanical advantages. "doing your part" on every shot really is an impractical goal. as before, usually the indian and not the arrow, or just about every experienced handloader with a stable rifle build will only have 1 hole on every one of their targets, no matter how many shots are fired.
it's usually more the case of a "pull" or loss of concentration on a given shot than a "flier", especially using handloads and a stable rifle.
These, imo, are examples of flyers. Same rifle, same day, flyers:
Thanks guys for all the replies.On this first target is what I am referring to as flyers out of my gun.I check concentricity on all my loads but I am beginning to think it is just something I am missing with my reloading practice.The gun always shoots .5moa or less at 100yds and it doesn't always throw one,but its enough to draw my attention to it.
What looks like a flyer in a three or five shot group will wind up being just part of the group if you keep shooting. Flyers that are not shooter induced or caused by some extreme defect in ammunition (like jacking a round up by jamming it in the action) are largely mythological.
In science, we never throw out data without a reason. And that reason has to be understood - like knowing the charge was mislabeled, or that the bullet had a huge gouge in the side, or that you called the shot perfectly. If it's unexplained, it isn't a flyer. it's part of your group.
In science, we never throw out data without a reason. And that reason has to be understood - like knowing the charge was mislabeled, or that the bullet had a huge gouge in the side, or that you called the shot perfectly. If it's unexplained, it isn't a flyer. it's part of your group.
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Next time your loading up a batch pay close attention when your seating the bullets. Segregate the ones that go in smoothly with consistent effort and shoot those for groups. The ones that require a little extra oomph to seat may be the cause of your flyer."Anneal those necks!!!"
Flyers as mentioned could be a number of things including you, a gust of wind mirage or what ever. Another suggestion is when you have a so called flyer save that brass, load it back up and shoot it again in your next set of groups. If that same piece of brass shoots a flyer once more then just toss it. I'm fortunate enough to have my own range in my back yard along with my reloading shop so I can easily take that flyer brass go reload it and come back and shoot immediately and usually I've found that the shot was me as I put that loaded shot back in the original group. Anyhow that's my suggestion is mark that one piece of brass or however many you get to throw a flyer and add them back into your next session.
....if only I could answer this question......I'd never need to shoot again!
These, imo, are examples of flyers. Same rifle, same day, flyers:
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Flyers like the ones shown above are the story of my life and usually on the 5th shot.
Since its not in your post, is it the cold bore or clean bore that runs astray?
Otherwise I think based on your targets you are fighting something we all do, Dude your human! I would point out that even with your "flyer" you would have made a solid hit on a MOA target to whatever usable max range you have. Field performance like that is not something to get bummed over.
Personally, I quite fighting the issue and set up my steel
Otherwise I think based on your targets you are fighting something we all do, Dude your human! I would point out that even with your "flyer" you would have made a solid hit on a MOA target to whatever usable max range you have. Field performance like that is not something to get bummed over.
Personally, I quite fighting the issue and set up my steel
