New to processing 7.62 x 51 once fired brass; couple of questions.

[My Toy]

Just received two lots of 500 once fired cases from two different sellers. When de-capping them, with cases head stamped WCC, the primers remove with noticeably less effort than the LC cases and after minimally swaging of the primer pockets, Winchester large rifle primers seat with noticeably less effort in the WCC cases than LC and the other headstamped cases. Anyone else notice this?
I've have small base sized the cases as recommended by other board members but not yet loaded them up.
Also I notice that almost all the cases have a dent on the case body near the shoulder (I'm assuming from ejection from a MG). The dent seems to iron out somewhat with SB sizing, but I was wondering does this dent reduce the serviceable life of the case?
Finally, Is there a source of info to tell what the various manufactures are based on the headstamp?

 

[bigfish_7]

Before you load a bunch of them make sure the base of the case is not deformed from the MG. I picked up a bunch of once fired LC and approx. 30% of it will not chamber.

 

[ChrisGarrett]

If you can't knock out a primer fully, or partially, when hitting the primed case against your palm, then you're good to go. After firing, look for a gas leaking around the primer.

You want to barely swage that crimp out of the way and don't go any farther than that, because you can prematurely expand your primer pockets, leading to loose fitting primers.

Looser primer pockets, if not a result of over-swaging, could result from differing variables in the production of that brass, the pressure each 'stamp was loaded too and a few other reasons.

Soft pressure dents are fine and will fire out. Creases that break the surface of the brass are more suspect IMO and I retire those pieces to the recycle bin.

You really don't need to use a small base sizing die unless you NEED to use a small base sizing die.

I've loaded lots of 1x 7.62x51 LC and RA brass for my HK-91, FN-FAL and Savage 10FP rifles and never had a problem with standard dies. I did buy a SB Redding .223 body die and my first and only batch fired my Bushie 20" upper resulted in fired cases that had soot (gas blow-by) all over the bodies of the cases. Ooops. I now use a standard body die, lol.

Chris

 

[mtrmn]

If you can't knock out a primer fully, or partially, when hitting the primed case against your palm, then you're good to go. After firing, look for a gas leaking around the primer.

You want to barely swage that crimp out of the way and don't go any farther than that, because you can prematurely expand your primer pockets, leading to loose fitting primers.

Looser primer pockets, if not a result of over-swaging, could result from differing variables in the production of that brass, the pressure each 'stamp was loaded too and a few other reasons.

Soft pressure dents are fine and will fire out. Creases that break the surface of the brass are more suspect IMO and I retire those pieces to the recycle bin.

You really don't need to use a small base sizing die unless you NEED to use a small base sizing die.

I've loaded lots of 1x 7.62x51 LC and RA brass for my HK-91, FN-FAL and Savage 10FP rifles and never had a problem with standard dies. I did buy a SB Redding .223 body die and my first and only batch fired my Bushie 20" upper resulted in fired cases that had soot (gas blow-by) all over the bodies of the cases. Ooops. I now use a standard body die, lol.

Chris

I had this same problem, but my loads were so light that the cases did not expand to fit the chamber properly. As I increased my load above the starting load (I was being very cautious using surplus military powder) the problem went away. Those light loads even pushed primers halfway out of the cases and the primer pockets were tight. Again, that problem went away after I finished freaking out and chasing my tail thinking my problem was too much pressure when actually there was not enough pressure. This may not be true in your case, but increasing my powder charge solved my problems.

 

[rduckwor]

After you have full length resized the cases, it can be worthwhile to test chamber them in your rifle to make certain your sizing was spot on.

Also, measure the sized cases to make certain that haven't "grown"
beyond max length. Some trimming may be in order.

Good Luck,

 

[ChrisGarrett]

I had this same problem, but my loads were so light that the cases did not expand to fit the chamber properly. As I increased my load above the starting load (I was being very cautious using surplus military powder) the problem went away. Those light loads even pushed primers halfway out of the cases and the primer pockets were tight. Again, that problem went away after I finished freaking out and chasing my tail thinking my problem was too much pressure when actually there was not enough pressure. This may not be true in your case, but increasing my powder charge solved my problems.

No, that wasn't the case in my case, lol. Medium to high pressure loads that I've been loading since '95. I knew exactly what was happening after I picked up the second case off of the cement floor.

Small base dies squeeze the case bodies in further than standard dies. At some point, pressure is not going to allow them to expand enough to completely seal the cases off and prevent gas blow-by. Brass is elastic, but it's not elastic in the sense that a rubber band is elastic.

Chris

 

[My Toy]

If you can't knock out a primer fully, or partially, when hitting the primed case against your palm, then you're good to go. After firing, look for a gas leaking around the primer.

You want to barely swage that crimp out of the way and don't go any farther than that, because you can prematurely expand your primer pockets, leading to loose fitting primers.

Looser primer pockets, if not a result of over-swaging, could result from differing variables in the production of that brass, the pressure each 'stamp was loaded too and a few other reasons.

Soft pressure dents are fine and will fire out. Creases that break the surface of the brass are more suspect IMO and I retire those pieces to the recycle bin.

You really don't need to use a small base sizing die unless you NEED to use a small base sizing die.

I've loaded lots of 1x 7.62x51 LC and RA brass for my HK-91, FN-FAL and Savage 10FP rifles and never had a problem with standard dies. I did buy a SB Redding .223 body die and my first and only batch fired my Bushie 20" upper resulted in fired cases that had soot (gas blow-by) all over the bodies of the cases. Ooops. I now use a standard body die, lol.

Chris

I have a Dillon primer pocket swaging tool; I also worry about over-doing the swage and enlarging the pocket. I set the tool to put the slightest radius around the circumference of the pocket opening. As a matter of fact I tried priming some of the WCC cases I was referring to without swaging the primer pockets and on those cases the primers went in with no problem.
As far as the sizing, I had some unfired LC brass that I loaded and used several times in my AR-10 and only ever FL sized them with a Redding FL die and they functioned OK through several reloads. I was basically taking the SB sizing advice because the once fired cases had probably been fired in a MG with a very generous chamber.

 

[mtrmn]

I use SB dies because I'm feeding multiple AR's in addition to a bolt or 2 and all my ammo must work in whatever gun I happen to pick up. A couple of the ARs have proven they must have SB sized brass to function 100%. If you're just dealing with 1 gun and it has been proven that regular FL dies work, then you're golden. In my case, not so much.

 

[EXTREMEPREJUDICE]

Finally, Is there a source of info to tell what the various manufactures are based on the headstamp?

Headstamp Codes - International Ammunition Association

 

[Deadshot2]

Is it possible that the WCC headstamped cases had been reloaded at least once? Were there pronounced "crimps" on the primer pocket mouth when you deprimed them?

I've had more than one instance where so-called "Once Fired" brass was not 1X.

I recently disposed of close to 2K WCC cases as I got tired of working with them. Reduced case volume (Nato spec'd) and almost all had the beginnings of a case head separation (expanded to fit an MG chamber). I sectioned a couple and the "groove" was really pronounced even when I pushed out the crimped primers (a sign of truly 1X firing).

I used the money I got from the recycler to offset the cost of some new Lapua Brass and haven't looked back.

 

[bigedp51]

ballistictools.com sells primer pocket gauges, and you can also buy pin gauges to customize your inspection of the primer pockets depending on the brand/diameter of the primers you are using. This will save you from excess work on cases with oversized prime pockets and removing live primers from oversized primer pockets. You can also use these gauges when adjusting your swager and not go overboard swaging the primer pockets.

Ballistic Tools - Articles - Minimum and maximum primer and primer pocket dimensions

Below is an example of a .210 pin gauge, you may need several larger and smaller pin gauges to use as GO/NO-GO gauges.
Vermont Gage Steel Go Plug Gage, Tolerance Class ZZ, 0.210" Gage Diameter: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

You can find all sizes at the link below.

Vermont Gage Steel Go Plug Gage, Tolerance Class ZZ (Inch): Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

Below I'm checking 5.56 primer pockets with a pin gauge, I'm using a pin gauge diameter of 0.1745 as a NO-GO gauge. The average small rifle primer is 0.175 so as long as my primer pockets are 0.0005 (1/2 thousandths) smaller the primer pockets are good to go.

Below is a photo of my Ballistic Tools "Swage Gage Small Primer Pocket Gauge", the reason I bought the additional pin gauges is because the NO-GO end to this gauge is 0.175 and the same size as the average primer. So I bought two more pin gauges at 0.1745 and 0.1740, the average new primer pocket diameter is smaller than the 0.174 pin gauge.

I can't give you any better information for large rifle primer pockets because I do not use crimped 7.62 cases, so I don't know the proper pin gauge sizes.

I also use a Lee depriming tool as a test for loose primers, if you can push the primer out with just your finger the primer pocket is too loose.

Below, primer cup diameters

 

[bigedp51]

NOTE: My small base .223/5.56 die only makes my cases a little over 1/2 thousandths smaller in diameter than a standard full length die, "BUT" it sizes further down the case. On ALL the once fired military type cases I buy I resize them first with the small base die to return them to minimum dimensions. ANY case fired in a machine gun with a even larger chamber than a military rifle will try and spring back to its fired size after resizing and may give you problems if resized with a standard full length die. Most 5.56 and 7.62 military rifle chambers are .002 larger in diameter than civilian SAAMI chambers and standard dies work most of the time but having a small base die on hand never hurts.

 

[bigfish_7]

Buying once fired mil brass, resizing then checking every round to make sure it is not damaged and will chamber before you reload is too much of a pain in the ass for me. Don't remember the question but I think Lapua is the answer.

 

[My Toy]

Thanks for the heads-up. I sectioned a couple of the WCC cases and found no evidence of incipient separations; also decapped several more and carefully looked at the circumference of the primer pockets and believe these are once fired as advertised. I think the primer pockets in these cases are just at the larger end of the primer pocket diameter spec. Being the anal person I am I just sent for a couple of the gauges bigedp51 recommended.

Is it possible that the WCC headstamped cases had been reloaded at least once? Were there pronounced "crimps" on the primer pocket mouth when you deprimed them?

I've had more than one instance where so-called "Once Fired" brass was not 1X.

I recently disposed of close to 2K WCC cases as I got tired of working with them. Reduced case volume (Nato spec'd) and almost all had the beginnings of a case head separation (expanded to fit an MG chamber). I sectioned a couple and the "groove" was really pronounced even when I pushed out the crimped primers (a sign of truly 1X firing).

I used the money I got from the recycler to offset the cost of some new Lapua Brass and haven't looked back.

 

[My Toy]

Great resource. Thanks.

Headstamp Codes - International Ammunition Association

 

[My Toy]

NOTE: My small base .223/5.56 die only makes my cases a little over 1/2 thousandths smaller in diameter than a standard full length die, "BUT" it sizes further down the case. On ALL the once fired military type cases I buy I resize them first with the small base die to return them to minimum dimensions. ANY case fired in a machine gun with a even larger chamber than a military rifle will try and spring back to its fired size after resizing and may give you problems if resized with a standard full length die. Most 5.56 and 7.62 military rifle chambers are .002 larger in diameter than civilian SAAMI chambers and standard dies work most of the time but having a small base die on hand never hurts.

Just received the primer pocket gauges and a couple of the plug gauges you recommended; They really take a lot of the guess work out of the equation.