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Disappointed with a recent Rem 700 SPS Tactical .223 purchase (manufacturing defects)

M

MG-70

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Jan 6, 2009
227
0
Germantown, MD
First off, this isn't meant to bash on Remington specifically, but rather to draw attention to some issues with a new rifle I picked up just last week. I know there are better rifles out there, so before someone suggests I buy a $3000-$6000 rifle, let me say that this is what I can afford. I have the .308 version of this same rifle in an HS Precision stock, and have been happy with it so far.

The first minor problem I encountered while prepping to mount the scope bases was a screw plug that didn't want to budge (even with light tapping on the proper screw driver). I applied some penetrating oil and went about cleaning the rest. Once I removed the stock, it was obvious the recoil lug was crooked. After that, I noticed some finish missing on the bolt handle stem. Lastly, and perhaps most worrying, is an imperfection on the chamber rim at 9 o'clock. As much as I tried, I couldn't capture this last one very well on pics.

The rifle was bought at Budsguns and transferred through a local FFL, so I can't take it back to a shop. I'm calling Remington tomorrow, and think there's a chance I'll end up having to pay another transfer fee...













 
I stopped buying small bolt face remy's a while ago. I don't know what they do different on their small extractors but out of a bunch of factories and several replacements than I even polished some of I couldn't get the to not destroy brass. The standard bolt face and magnum extractors do fine but the stalls just destroy brass and that's the way it's been for several years. I also had a 223 with improper headspace but that's just typical hit or miss rem quality. I still buy Remington products but I do it knowing there's a chance shit will have to be fixed and I buy local so I can put the hands on the gun I'm buying.
 
Better check to see if the chamber is off center as well. Everyone I have seen in the last 6 years have been.
 
I bought into the 5r hype , pffff what a joke with that rifle , the tooling marks , the head space terrible

Let's just say that same rifle has a major over haul , trued, m24 barrel , action reworked

The shortest I could set jump was 19 t , the 5r free bore WAY deep for anyone that don't know this , but all good I love my remy no matter what ( when u get them right )

But yeah the QC is crap now days srry to hear u got a turd like I did (we not alone )
 
And the bolt lugs too, probably. You will find these issues with all products from companies held by Freedom Group eventually. It is their goal to make profits, not guns.
 
You should have bought a T3. I really like my 308 5R at the moment, but if I had it to do over again I would get a T3 Sporter. Once I'm done with school and making money I'm upgrading to a TRG-22. Beretta makes some really nice stuff.
 
You dont pay anything (other than shipping) to send a gun back to the manufacture. That is not a "transfer" situation. They will send right back to you too.
 
QC is not just a Remmy problem. Selling rifles for years I can say no manufacture is immune to QC issues other than Tikka. Never had single Tikka from the box with any QC issue or a QC complaint come back. Try calling Beretta for warranty work on a Tikka and hear their response. I have opened many boxes from all manufactures to discover unbelievable QC issues that passed.

Call customer service and they should make it right. They should email you a paid shipping label and shipping request so all you have to do is box it up and wait for the pickup. It will come back to the name and address it was shipped from.
 
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From what I've seen the older remmys are the way to go. I found a 50 year old short action rifle at a pawn shop that's way better than anything new I've seen at sportsman's warehouse. Fraction of the price too. Good luck with the project.
 
Yup, Factory made American rifles seem to suck. All of them,

That said I wonder with wear like that if that was a Buds display model for awhile.
 
Ask your FFL to call Remmy & issue a return label to him. They might not send you one, but they should indeed issue a return label to your FFL who handled the transaction. I had an issue with a Savage and they issued my FFL a UPS label, no problemo.

Good luck, sucks to have dissapointment staring back up at you when you open a box...
 
As Bartles and James used to say, "thank you for your support."

I just got off the phone with customer service and they're sending me a UPS label and asked me to drop it off at the closest hub. I'm not that naive to believe this only happens to US-made products, and I'll second the person who stated getting parts from Beretta USA is a PITA (don't even try it if the gun has been discontinued; no service or parts at all). With that said, there were "too many issues" on the same firearm; hard to believe someone along the assembly line didn't notice one or more things.

If they decide to send me a different serial-numbered rifle, it'll have to be to the FFL, which means a whole new transfer. At this point, I may be better off with someone actually going over this one and fixing it. From the protective oil and reddish-brown lube on the bolt, this gun was definitely not a display.

Will post back when this is resolved.
 
MG-70 said:
...If they decide to send me a different serial-numbered rifle, it'll have to be to the FFL, which means a whole new transfer. At this point, I may be better off with someone actually going over this one and fixing it...
Click to expand...
Really? How much do you pay for an FFL transfer? I pay $25 for one and wouldn't consider that too much. What would you pay for someone to "fix" it?
 
MG-70 said:
As Bartles and James used to say, "thank you for your support."



If they decide to send me a different serial-numbered rifle, it'll have to be to the FFL, which means a whole new transfer. At this point, I may be better off with someone actually going over this one and fixing it. From the protective oil and reddish-brown lube on the bolt, this gun was definitely not a display.

Will post back when this is resolved.
Click to expand...

I just went through Remington to have a barreled action replaced. They destroy your old serial number and replace with a new one. No ffl required. Have done this twice and that is my experience. And they can ship right to your door.
 
Why didn't you just return it to Buds?

I've had them replace a pistol once before and they were good about it.
 
But remington is the bestest.....I stick to buying savage actions and building up exactly what i want or tikka. I do have 3 remingtons, one like urs that got a new barrel and full build within 300 rds of new. A 5 r, the most accurate factory rifle ever according to the interweb, it got a new stock and then new bartlien inside of 500 rds. The last one i got was a aac-sd, the new most accurate factory rifle according to the net, it got an aics first then trued up and made a remage. All these vuanted super accurate interweb Remington barely held 1.25-1.5" with a bunch of load work. Now they are a 6 br, 223, and 243 fast twist that ave in the .2s-.1s(6 br). The remage 243 has shot several groups in the 0s&.1s. Go figure, it has a criterion and the other two are bartlien krieger.
 
6brshooter said:
But remington is the bestest.....I stick to buying savage actions and building up exactly what i want or tikka. I do have 3 remingtons, one like urs that got a new barrel and full build within 300 rds of new. A 5 r, the most accurate factory rifle ever according to the interweb, it got a new stock and then new bartlien inside of 500 rds. The last one i got was a aac-sd, the new most accurate factory rifle according to the net, it got an aics first then trued up and made a remage. All these vuanted super accurate interweb Remington barely held 1.25-1.5" with a bunch of load work. Now they are a 6 br, 223, and 243 fast twist that ave in the .2s-.1s(6 br). The remage 243 has shot several groups in the 0s&.1s. Go figure, it has a criterion and the other two are bartlien krieger.
Click to expand...

I've owned one Savage in my life, it was headspaced wrong and blew up in my face.

My mom bought a Savage, after I told her not to. I was getting it ready for her only to find out... ... It was headspaced wrong and blew up in my face. The replacement has a really short throat, because it routinely pulls bullets out of factory ammunition.

Every gun manufacturer makes duds, we as a community are seeking things that are above the norm in terms of accuracy, that is why we find the issues, we're others would not.
 
lash said:
Really? How much do you pay for an FFL transfer? I pay $25 for one and wouldn't consider that too much. What would you pay for someone to "fix" it?
Click to expand...

The rifle is new, under warranty, and being shipped back to the manufacturer. I assume I won't have pay anything to Remington, which is less than I would pay for another transfer.

I've had to ship a gun back to Buds before and it was a real PITA, granted, it was a handgun. They sold me a gun they did not have in stock when my money order arrived exactly two days after the order was placed, after weeks they then shipped the wrong pistol (blued instead of stainless), and did not pay for the second transfer fee when the blued pistol was returned and the correct one shipped. I have since learned to pay via an "e-check", albeit with hesitation, and I only buy from them if they have the lowest price anywhere (because they don't deserve my loyalty). After reading a similar post here and discovering Remington will issue a call tag, I decided to try that route, and hopefully it will work out.

hdbiker1, I'm curious to know if they didn't correct your problem/s the first time around or if you sent two different guns, how long it took for them to ship it back to you, and also if they renumbered your old receiver or numbered a new receiver with your old serial number? If they renumbered your old receiver, can you tell this has been done? Do receiver and bolt match? Did they have to refinish anything?

I considered buying a Savage, but based on the fact I have an SPS Tac .308 that works well, and an extra Rem 700 SA HS Precision stock, I decided to stick with a model I was already familiar with.

Thanks
 
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I'm glad that it is working out for you.

I purchased a rifle from Bud's recently and fortunately read the fine print on their return policy. What they tell you to do is to thoroughly inspect the weapon before the FFL transfers it to you. If something is wrong, DO NOT complete the transfer from the FFL. Contact Bud's and they send an RA and return sticker to the FFL for them to return to Bud's. That way, there are no additional fees etc.

In my particular case, there was damage to the rifle and I did not complete the transfer. After Bud's sent the replacement rifle, which was fine, I completed the transfer with no additional $$ out of my pocket.

For future reference.
 
lash said:
I'm glad that it is working out for you.

I purchased a rifle from Bud's recently and fortunately read the fine print on their return policy. What they tell you to do is to thoroughly inspect the weapon before the FFL transfers it to you. If something is wrong, DO NOT complete the transfer from the FFL. Contact Bud's and they send an RA and return sticker to the FFL for them to return to Bud's. That way, there are no additional fees etc.

In my particular case, there was damage to the rifle and I did not complete the transfer. After Bud's sent the replacement rifle, which was fine, I completed the transfer with no additional $$ out of my pocket.

For future reference.
Click to expand...

Noted, thanks, I've never bothered to read their return policy, to be honest. You've brought up a good point, I did not take possession of the blued pistol sent by mistake by Buds, but they did not want to pay some additional cost I incurred in sending it back. I can't recall if it was return shipping or something related to the FFL's time. Even if I had taken this rifle out of the box at the FFL's, I probably wouldn't have noticed the nicked chamber rim and crooked recoil lug, or stuck receiver hole plug...I didn't know these things happened, or happened that frequently.

Thanks again!
 
What is that, the 7 or 8 remington with a crooked lug that i have seen on the hide? Sorry for ur misfortune ryhno, was the ammo used during blow up factory or handload? If i had two factory rifles blow up with factory ammo i would own their ass, just sayin. I specifically said savage action and then build, i can get model 10 tact actions for 300 and pta for 425 . Those are the only savage parts that are factory on my savage buulds, even the bolt heads are replaced with ptg units.
 
6brshooter said:
What is that, the 7 or 8 remington with a crooked lug that i have seen on the hide? Sorry for ur misfortune ryhno, was the ammo used during blow up factory or handload? If i had two factory rifles blow up with factory ammo i would own their ass, just sayin. I specifically said savage action and then build, i can get model 10 tact actions for 300 and pta for 425 . Those are the only savage parts that are factory on my savage buulds, even the bolt heads are replaced with ptg units.
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Yeah factory ammo. It was scary as hell and I've stayed away from Savage for awhile because of it. But it is what it is, if I buy a savage in the future I'm gonna get headspace gauges. I'll add that the Savage held up, both locked up, but the actions contained the pressure and my face was alright, luckily I was wearing safety glasses a practice I always do when firing new firearms or load development.

That said, I've had enough of factory rifles I'll probably just buy donor actions or just actions from now on.
 
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mcfred said:
From what I've seen the older remmys are the way to go.
Click to expand...

+1 on this. The only remmys that I have that don't suck are what my grandfather has given me and some are older than I am. I've had no luck with anything made by remington so I just stopped. I do like my savages though.
 
Years Back when the did the Annual Classic model release ..... that years gun was a .280 Rem. I had my LGS order me one, it came in as a .270, standard old Classic. I FINALLY got a .280 Rem model and it literally had a small chunk missing from the chamber. Upon firing , extraction was difficult as brass flowed into the recess. HOW that guns chamber defect went out unnoticed is beyond me.

So even way back 20 yrs ago they occasionally shipped out a bad gun.
 
I bought 2 new 700s in the last year and they both had crooked recoil lugs.
Neither was crooked enough to cause a problem as there was adequate clearance in the stock. I don't think it's a big deal, but that's just me.

I recently got an FNAR replaced by FNH.
They shipped the replacement rifle right to my house. It did not have the same serial number as the original.

Joe
 
scudzuki said:
I bought 2 new 700s in the last year and they both had crooked recoil lugs.
Neither was crooked enough to cause a problem as there was adequate clearance in the stock. I don't think it's a big deal, but that's just me.

I recently got an FNAR replaced by FNH.
They shipped the replacement rifle right to my house. It did not have the same serial number as the original.

Joe
Click to expand...

That's very good to know about the serial number! As for the recoil lug, it was probably the second easiest thing to "fix", if just hitting it with a mallet would've done it, but since there were other things, I thought I'd add it to the list. I'm planning to bed the recoil lug area (on the spare HS Precision stock), so the better the fit, in my mind, the better the function.

Btw, what was wrong with the FNAR?

Thanks!
 
MG-70 said:
That's very good to know about the serial number! As for the recoil lug, it was probably the second easiest thing to "fix", if just hitting it with a mallet would've done it, but since there were other things, I thought I'd add it to the list. I'm planning to bed the recoil lug area (on the spare HS Precision stock), so the better the fit, in my mind, the better the function.

Btw, what was wrong with the FNAR?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

I've heard that before, fixing the recoil log with a whack from a mallet, but I can't imagine it would work.
That barrel on your 700 is torqued to one meeelion ft./lbs.

The first FNAR shot like crap. FNH guarantees FNARs to group 3 shots 1 MOA or better with FGMM 168s.
I tried FGMM, various other factory match ammo, and reloads with 168 SMKs, ran OCWs and ladders with different powders (I4895, Tac), and never got it to shoot.

They replaced the 20" rifle I sent in with a 16" model, which worked out very well. The 16" model has good balance and shoots everything from ball to FGMM very well for a gas gun. I have a USO SR-8s that didn't really fit any of my rifles but it found a home on the FNAR. It is a great alternative to an AR-10 variant, even if it is a little ugly.

Joe
 
I'm not surprised. I quit buying Remington after my previous 870 tactical. I bought it new and it had a broken firing pin, so it wouldn't fire. I shot a couple boxes of birdshot threw it, the extractor broke off (had to send it back to Remington for a 5 month turn around). After speaking with several dealers, they say that Remington's quality control has gotten worse and it is common to have customers return complaining of a defect of some sort. Now I own a savage rifle and I'm going to buy a Mossberg 590. Brand name or not, I won't buy junk, especially when it comes to guns.
 
Not to rain on the parade but sometimes when firearms are sent in for warranty, they come back, spec'd good, shot 20 rounds good, funct check good, and they send it back.

I have never heard of re-stamping a serial number on a firearm, its against chain of commerce.

Custom built are not immune to human error, I waited 11 months and near $5k to receive a less than 100% perfect custom built rifle. It had to go back.

I have seen 30.06 rolled on the barrel of a short action, box and mfg number say it 30.06, makes you wonder. Not a Remington. I have seen wrong model in the box to what the label says, wrong serial numbers, firearm and box do not match, wrong caliber, long action for a short action caliber, missing the bolt, no detach mag in the box, missing sights, missing action bolts, cracked stocks, missing butt plate, missing parts and pieces, bent barrel, wrapped stock, too many things to list and these are not Remington firearms; but are Winchester, Savage, Weatherby, Sig, Glock, Springfield, every manufacture but Tikka, the only firearm I have never seen a single issue opening the box from the factory is Tikka.

Always open and inspect any firearm you plan to purchase before it is transferred to your possession. Have them use a snap cap to see if it will chamber and cycle. This will decrease the stress for you getting your new firearm home to find out its not want you wanted or something is wrong. Will there still be some issues, absolutely but try to minimize them before taking possession.

Some FFLs cannot take possession of used firearms, yes it has never been shot, I just left, got to the parking lot and well its broke but possession has transferred and is/can be considered a used firearm. This is not the FFL fault but the situation of dealing with federally controlled serialize firearms chain of commerce.

good luck
 
Quick follow-up to original post...

10/30/13 Rifle shipped to Remington via call-tag/pre-paid UPS label
11/04/13 Remington acknowledged receipt of rifle via email
11/19/13 Status via telephone: barrel was ordered on 11/04 and usually takes 3-4 weeks to come in.
11/27/13 Delivered back from Remington w/new barrel, hand-etched serial number on bolt (to headspace, I assume), new extractor (“222 thick”), and new receiver plugs (oiled).
Problems found: chamber rough/rings/tears, barrel to receiver misaligned, barrel to bolt misaligned.

It's a new rifle/serial number, but the bolt's serial is hand-etched instead of dot-matrix stamped. I'm not sure if that means it was a previous return or simply one whose rebarreling and headspacing was given a little extra attention (I did provide them with a link to this post when I sent it in). I haven't cleaned it yet, or removed it from the stock; hopefully tomorrow. I rather the bolt had been dot-matrix stamped.

ETA: 10:15pm, rifle has been cleaned and looks good except for a (still) canted recoil lug, not as badly as the first one, and lighter colored solder around the bolt handle stem, which isn't a problem, as long as it stays put. The action seemed to drop into an unbedded HS Precision stock with no issues.
 
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Just cleaned a new 399.00 Black Friday ADL. Looks like a winner. Damn new fangled trigger went right to three lbs. and crisp as well. Plastic stock in the garbage, Sightron cheapie on the way.
Hope we both get lucky.
 
BoilerUP said:
Did you guys have issues with your Savages, or simply prefer the Rem?
Click to expand...

I used to hate Remington. Bought a Remington cdl with the safety issue and didn't buy another 700 for years. I did the Mauser thing and Winchester m70 for a long time. I have bought 4 savages in the last 4 years. The 111's were not great, even for hunting rifles. I do have a 112 heavy target in 300WM that is a peach but its old, the new accushit models get no love from me. The new Remingtons are not all perfect, but the xcr and police models I have bought have been shooters.
 
I bought a Savage. LRP in 260. Could have been sweet. No component sweat yet. Exciting new to me caliber. Nice enough trigger, a bit nose heavy, price was cheap. Action was tweaked.
To state this correctly, the action was probably tweaked during shipping. 11/12 lb gun, heavy barrel, very heavy barrel. Nightforce rail mounting failure. Front top of the action was high. Rail mounting showed the problem instantly.
Must not be a very strong tube they use. Box was not damaged.
 
BoilerUP said:
Did you guys have issues with your Savages, or simply prefer the Rem?
Click to expand...

I bought 3 17HMR's trying to get a shooter after hearing how great they were and never did get one that shot well. Had problems with the POS accutriggers. Bought a few various 308 target models and a LRH 7mm RM. LRH wouldn't shoot for a shit. 308's shot ok, not great. One began to shoot about 3/4moa after it had about 500 rounds through it. None of them ever fed 100%, had more problems with the accutrigger locking up.

Not to mention the problems I've seen with other rifles people/friends have bought.

I'll never buy another one.
 
redneckbmxer24 said:
I bought 3 17HMR's trying to get a shooter after hearing how great they were and never did get one that shot well. Had problems with the POS accutriggers. Bought a few various 308 target models and a LRH 7mm RM. LRH wouldn't shoot for a shit. 308's shot ok, not great. One began to shoot about 3/4moa after it had about 500 rounds through it. None of them ever fed 100%, had more problems with the accutrigger locking up.

Not to mention the problems I've seen with other rifles people/friends have bought.

I'll never buy another one.
Click to expand...

The LRH series is a joke. I had the 300 and the 338. The 300 was ok for a hunting rifle, the 338 was awful.
 
Freedom group bought Remington, FN bought winchester, from now on I will go with Montana rifle company, American made by Americans, Savage still makes an excellent product, Tikka is made in Sweden(?) Parent company is Sako, Beretta is Italian, MRC gets my business from now on. Keep our money at home.
 
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