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.338 Lapua at shorter distances (100-400 yards)

SKYNET KC

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Minuteman
Feb 6, 2013
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More or less asking this for my dad, since I didn't know the answer. He's wanting to pick up a .338 Lapua…because he's my dad and spends money on things he doesn't need. When the guy asked him what he would use it for, my dad replied some hunting and shooting targets beyond 1000 meters. The salesmen then told my dad that .338 Lapua doesn't really stabilize until it's out past 300-400 yards depending on the cartridge you're using.

Does this sound right at all? I've never looked into calibers that big, so i'm not sure if that statement lines up with the ballistics. Any input from you guys is appreciated.
 
That guy does not know what he is talking about. My .338 is very accurate at under 400 yards but is boring to shoot at those distances unless you just like punching holes in stuff. It does hit steel plates very hard at 400 yards. I have knocked over a few stands at that range.
 
I agree with that. I have a 50 BMG and just ordered 338 lapua and they do not stabilize for a few hundred yards. It doesn't mean they cannot be used for yardage that short. It just means there could be better solutions for that short of yardage. My 50 BMG for example is basically one hole at 100 yards even though it doesn't stabilize for another couple hundred yards.
 
Bull fucking shit...

They stabilize 100% inside 100 yards... Anything else is a lack of understanding.

Don't be fooled, bullshitted too. A stable bullet is a stable bullet.
 
That's funny, both the AI AWSM and and Sako TRG42 I had shot .5MOA at those distances. He's talking out of his ass. That said it's pretty dumb to buy a 338 for 100-400 yard target shooting and hunting...
 
Bull fucking shit...

They stabilize 100% inside 100 yards... Anything else is a lack of understanding.

Don't be fooled, bullshitted too. A stable bullet is a stable bullet.
Exactly, my trg42 stacks em up at 100.
 
I,ve heard the same kinda shit for years, "don't even bother shooting groups with a 338 unless its at two or three hundred yards cause they're not stable till then." Funny how every gun I've had or have built shot equally good up close or at distance. If it shot 1-2" at 600 it was one hole at 100. Like wise if a gun won't shoot at 100 yards I've yet to see it shoot good at any distance.
 
I have seen ragged holes from the .338 at 100, so I think they work just fine.
 
I,ve heard the same kinda shit for years, "don't even bother shooting groups with a 338 unless its at two or three hundred yards cause they're not stable till then." Funny how every gun I've had or have built shot equally good up close or at distance. If it shot 1-2" at 600 it was one hole at 100. Like wise if a gun won't shoot at 100 yards I've yet to see it shoot good at any distance.

I've experienced the same.
 
I was thinking that it would. I honestly didn't know, but I figured it should still be sub MOA at least. Thanks guys.
 
Gun shop employee normally means clueless moron. Finding someone who actually knows anything beyond what some gun rag published is about a 1 in 100 shot.
 
I punched straight thru an AR500 steel target at 100 yards "accidentally" with my trg42. It was a clean hole.
 
300 gr. Sierra Match Kings out of a factory Savage 110 FCP .338LM @ 100 yds. Very repeatable in the .3s, but this was the best of the bunch.

 
a paltry 350 yards and a serious misuse of the 338L but I couldn't help it...He was going to go over the saddle!

All joking aside my 338 DTA stacks 300 Scenars @ 100 yards

bulldown6.jpg
 
My surgeon remedy 338 shoots 3 shot groups at 100 Ez to Ez.
 
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Lowlight is 100% correct. A bullet is either stabilized or not stabilized. If its stabilized at 1000 yards it stabilized at 100.
 
300 gr. Sierra Match Kings out of a factory Savage 110 FCP .338LM @ 100 yds. Very repeatable in the .3s, but this was the best of the bunch.


Very nice vh20. What powder, and how much?
 
Thanks! 89.9 gr. Retumbo, WLRM primer, Lapua brass, 300SMK touching lands
 
Anyone that tells you a .338 Lapua isn't stable at 100 yards probably doesn't actually shoot one.
 

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Hole in a hole at 100yards just a couple of hours ago. Sako TRG42 338lm. Not a surprise for a sako.
 
100y load testing 300g hybrids. 5 shot groups. Sako TRG M995 with a 28" Bartlein, 9.5tw. Mag length. Not the final load but all I had a pic of. Good enough for this discussion.

IMG_3758.jpg
 
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I bet the guy at the gun shop has never had any personal experience with a .338 LM. He is probably regurgitating what he overheard from some mall rat after the pimple pusher watched a sniper program on A&E.

OP, go back and ask the guy how or where he got his information. It would be interesting to here his response.

100 yards is one ragged hole with my GAP.
 
For hunting inside 400yds I would go down on bullet weight and up in velocity.

The leight weight Barnes tipped TSX bullets are laser beams to 400yds.
 
At the risk of taking on folks with truly far superior knowledge on this, I just read a very informative section in Bryan Litz's "Applied Ballistics for Long Range Shooting." I will paraphrase the pertinent part here.
He is speaking of Sg, or Gyroscopic Stability of bullets. The twist rate of a barrel is important in relation to the weight of a bullet, as the heavier bullets in a caliber are longer than the lighter ones. Being longer, the forces working on the bullet in flight that affect its stability require a faster twist rate to stabilize it. As the bullet flies, the velocity bleeds of faster than the speed of twist does, so the bullet essentially becomes more gyroscopically stable as it flies further down range. If you have a bullet that is heavy for the twist rate of the rifle, the bullet may be marginally stabilized immediately upon leaving the rifle barrel. It may then be more subject to "some amount of pitching and yawing until the Sg improves enough (through loss of velocity) to restore point forward flight." This, he says is often referred to the "bullet going to sleep."

This indicates that the salesman does not understand the principle of Sg. In practice, if the twist rate is matched well to the bullet used, this "going to sleep" is much less of a factor than many believe, and remains true regardless of the caliber or cartridge used. It is not related to, say 338LM's any more or any less than it is to say 22-250's. The Sg factor needs to be used to match any weight bullet in any caliber to the correct twist rate in the barrel.

Thanks, Bryan Litz, for making this clearer to me, and I hope that I have adequately passed on what you have written.
 
The salesman needs a boot in the ass to a better position, with that kind of education gathering shopping carts is right up his alley. 100 yards three rounds, while working on load development.

 
So you are single feeding them I see


Why, no. Well, technically for this group "yes" because I tend to do that when I'm shooting groups on paper, but to your assumption "no" because they fit in the mag and feed just fine.
 
Why, no. Well, technically for this group "yes" because I tend to do that when I'm shooting groups on paper, but to your assumption "no" because they fit in the mag and feed just fine.

Ok. Only reason why I assumed this is because at mag length in my trg42, I am .025" from the lands. For some reason I got to thinking that applied to all mags and chambers. Your lands must be closer than mine, or your mag allows for longer seating.
 
Have not seen any of that with our TRG-42s, at least the targets do not show any evidence. But it will punch through a lot, at 100 meters with Lapua's Lockbase it went through a 1 cm thick Hardox (500) steel plate like it was made of paper. Most extreme was a steel pipe with welded parts on the side, at 300 meter line, walls were some 2-3 cm thick. The bullet went through the walls on both sides AND the welding bead as well. Jeez.
 
He may have interpreted what some people say inaccurately which is essentially that there is little purpose to shooting a 338 that close since you're basically flinging five dollar bills down there when you could accomplish the same thing for much less. However, one must consider that if a bullet is not stable <100y then even if it were to stabilize afterwards, the POI would be different due to the instability. That obviously isn't the case considering what people have accomplished with the caliber.
 
The time of flight for the .338 @ 100 yards is .113 milliseconds
The time of flight for the .338 @ 400 yards is .486 milliseconds

Gyroscopic stability has already happened ( or not ) upon firing and the 300 yard difference and .373 milliseconds is not going to change that.
If you launch a bullet with a non-concentric jacket to core the instability is a different animal induced from an off axis projectile.


( The gun shop person should be flipping burgers & fries)
 
( The gun shop person should be flipping burgers & fries)

Working somewhere doesn't necessarily require that they be an expert in the field. Chances are he makes barely above minimum wage. Would you take that job?
 
never seen a X ring rifle at camp perry shoot unstable bullet keyholes at 100. Now the other way around.....
 
The advice given was stupid...

That said sub 400 yard shooting of 338 is a waste IMO. Just pick up a 223 or 308. That's like shooting a 50 BMG for CQB.. It's no illegal BUT WHY?!
 
that's for sure, but there is something fun about shooting boomers. some family members only have access to a 100 yard range (200 yard range on sunday afternoons when the close the parking lot after hours), but they do have to practice now and then. it is throwing an extra $3 down the barrel each shot but they have no other choice. sooner or later you have to practice with the rifle you are going to use, a 22cal is great practice (cheap too) for fundamentals but recoil management is another story.
 
Working somewhere doesn't necessarily require that they be an expert in the field. Chances are he makes barely above minimum wage. Would you take that job?



I HAD jobs like that when I was a younger so its not beneath me.
We all do not start out on top and know everything.

Irregardless of the job be it flipping burgers or a doctor its best if someone does not know what they are talking about to say they do not know or just say nothing.
 
To quote, or more correctly, paraphrase some famous person or other
"Tis better to say nothing and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt"