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Clark Customs 1911 help...

Flea21

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Jun 1, 2013
755
52
NE Illinois
I have an opportunity to acquire a Clark Customs 1911. I dont know anything about them other than what I can read on their website, but thats byast information so I figured, being that im a member of the best forum in the world, lemme bounce this off the experts and see what they have to say about it. The guy wantimg to trade it says that it started as a Springfield Armory 1911 before they did their business to it and thats all I kmow so far. It appears to be a commander size or smaller from the picture, sorry its a crappy shot.. thats all the guys sent me so far, its a deal in progress.

Id like to know what yall know about em, what theyre worth, are they worth getting, what should I ask and look for when I get it in my hands, etc. Thank You in advance.
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I held one once. The grip had their stipple job on it. If I closed my eyes I would have thought my hand was fuzzy velcro and the gun was the hook velcro.
 
This is my first red flag..... it started as a Springfield Armory 1911.......I'm not saying Springfield is a bad choice, I've owned them, but if you want a custom gun why not just pony up to a real custom gun? Ed Brown, Wilson Combat, etc, not something that started out as some other manufacturers gun. I've never held, let alone owned a Clark Custom. Owned the others. Come resell time you'll have a very limited buying clientele, unlike when selling a used name brand custom.
There are a few custom .45's on here for sale, I forget the sellers name, but hopefully he will chime in with his expert opinion, he's owned more high dollar guns than alot of us put together !!!
 
Clark Custom was one of the best of the builders back in the day. They were known as very accurate bullseye guns, right there with Swenson, Kings etc. Most of the collectable ones are built using Colts as a base.

I dont know what the company has become since the old man died.

I got what knowledge I know of Clarks from people drooling over them at the 1911Forum.
 
I have several, one early years custom, 1954, set up for PPC. Another 1979 vintage Custom Combat Gov't model, and a compensated Bowling Pin Gun. Hundreds and hundreds of rounds thorough them. Never a problem. Jim Clark and his shop guys, along with Swenson and a few others, were building guns when Wilson wished he knew what to do. The newer "factory guns" took what these guys did and started the "semi-custom" business in my humble opinion.
 
So what dyou know about them? Or dyou have a link from that forum I can check out?


Flea - click on the last part of what I wrote - that is the link. If you are unfamiliar with the Louder Than Words Forum, just know that every 1911 geek / fanboy (including me) floats through that place, and it has as some of its members the top 1911 smiths in the nation. You'll get an overview here, you likely get the minutiae there.
 
I have several, one early years custom, 1954, set up for PPC. Another 1979 vintage Custom Combat Gov't model, and a compensated Bowling Pin Gun. Hundreds and hundreds of rounds thorough them. Never a problem. Jim Clark and his shop guys, along with Swenson and a few others, were building guns when Wilson wished he knew what to do. The newer "factory guns" took what these guys did and started the "semi-custom" business in my humble opinion.

Just asking, not trying to argue, but if he is so good, makes me wonder why he starts off with a manufacturers weapon instead of building his own from the ground up?
Again, just curious. Bottom line, a Wilson , Brown, etc. will still fetch more on resale, I honestly believe, but just my opinion.
 
Just asking, not trying to argue, but if he is so good, makes me wonder why he starts off with a manufacturers weapon instead of building his own from the ground up?
Again, just curious. Bottom line, a Wilson , Brown, etc. will still fetch more on resale, I honestly believe, but just my opinion.

Wilson, Les Baer, Brown etc are production guns. You can walk into a shop and buy one.

A Clark, Swenson, Harrison Design or Precision Heirloom is an individual work produced by a master smith. Most often you send your gun to them to work on. Sure Im sure these guys have an apprentice or two but the gun doesnt get their name on it until it passes their personal muster, not just a tag from QC inspector 13.

A Clarks of old is a peice of work. Id imagine the son is doing his dad proud. The guns by a master will absolutely keep their value to a Brown. You can build your own Brown pretty much out of a Brownells catalog. Let me see someone replicate a Jason Burton, Heirloom Precision piece.

Im not saying this Clarks is of that caliber but the name is respected, more research would need to be done to learn about it. Call Clarks give them the SN and they will be able to tell you soup to nuts about it and how many bathroom breaks the builder needed during the job. Call Wilson about one of their guns and most likely they say it was one of 50 built on this day.
 
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Wilsons are also built and "fitted" by hand, by legit gunsmiths. Again, not trying to argue. To each his own, we each spend our $$$ how we want. I'm not saying 1 shoots better than the other.
An Heirloom is generally a work of art in any world, a beauty to behold.. in the gun world, it oesn't make it a better shooter than a Wilson, etc. Also doesn't make it any worse to shoot either. I own and shoot numerous factory guns and a few customs. Nothing I've ever shot was better than a FACTORY Sig Elite 220 that I let get away and have never found another that made me 1 with the gun like it did. Maybe it was confidence on my part, maybe it was that exceptional factory once in a lifetime weapon that was perfect, I don't know, but I miss it terribly.
 
Hey guys.. please dont argue on my thread. I started this purely to get some insight as to what this gentleman is offerring me up for sale or trade depending on what we can work out. Truth be told I dont want it and would plan on just selling it outright if we do trade therefore, I need to know a legit value I could get selling it to see if the trade makes sense or not. Thank You.
 
Flea - is the photo the gun in question? You'd need high res pics of all angles, both assembled and disassembled (make sure you get them with the grips pulled as well) as well as a parts list to start to get a handle on value. If that is the gun, it doesn't appear to have any special machining done, and so it looks like a two tone, but otherwise plain Jane commander. Two tone / hammer & trigger styles come and go and are highly personal - the 3 hole videki trigger and the ring hammer date the gun (to me), same with two tone. Also, some smiths are regarded for different applications almost by generation - ie most guys wouldn't regard a carry hard use gun by Clark the same way they would by Steve Morrison - rightly or wrongly.

i'd go review the for sale section of LTW and see if you can get a feel value and ask around.
 
Flea - is the photo the gun in question? You'd need high res pics of all angles, both assembled and disassembled (make sure you get them with the grips pulled as well) as well as a parts list to start to get a handle on value. If that is the gun, it doesn't appear to have any special machining done, and so it looks like a two tone, but otherwise plain Jane commander. Two tone / hammer & trigger styles come and go and are highly personal - the 3 hole videki trigger and the ring hammer date the gun (to me), same with two tone. Also, some smiths are regarded for different applications almost by generation - ie most guys would put regard a carry hard use gun by Clark the same way they would by Steve Morrison - rightly or wrongly.

i'd go review the for sale section of LTW and see if you can get a feel value and ask around.

Thanx Mike.. Im working on getting those hig res pics like you requested. Furthermore, ive been told that it had the meltdown package done to it and that it was a Springfield sent to clarks for that package. More info will come as I get it.
 
Hey guys.. please dont argue on my thread. I started this purely to get some insight as to what this gentleman is offerring me up for sale or trade depending on what we can work out. Truth be told I dont want it and would plan on just selling it outright if we do trade therefore, I need to know a legit value I could get selling it to see if the trade makes sense or not. Thank You.

No sir no arguing good discussion. Neither side is wrong arguing about nice guns. Its splitting hairs and comes down to individual preference.

Interested to hear what you learn about the gun. I hope the chance to get it works out whatever you decide to do with it.
 
Thanx.. Ill keep adding info as it comes to me. Again, all I care about is can I sell it quickly.
 
Also, some smiths are regarded for different applications almost by generation - ie most guys wouldn't regard a carry hard use gun by Clark the same way they would by Steve Morrison - rightly or wrongly.

The Clarks I fondled was a competition bullseye gun with some great sights on it for that use. The base gun was a 60's Colt. If someone says Clarks Custom to me, and note I have barely any knowledge of these things, that is the style and use I would associate with Clarks. The stippling on the front strap had a "sticky" feel I really liked. Its stickiness comes from the tiny sharp shards of metal imbedding in skin. That gun was about $4K asking price and I have no idea its build date or if it was worth it.

This gun is not of that style or intended use.
 
I wouldn't buy it unless it was offered up at extreme fire-sale pricing. There are several things "wrong" with it to make it a quick-turnaround piece. It's not a Colt. I shouldn't step off the plank and say 'only' Colts keep high resale values, because you'll buy it "used" anyway, and the 'off-brand' depreciation should be built into your buying price. That is to say, you probably won't (and shouldn't) be paying as much for a true-custom modified Springfield as you would a Colt, so you as the used-gun buyer won't absorb any loss for that when you sell the Springfield. However, since it's not a Colt, that could affect the amount of time it takes for you to sell it. That's all I'm trying to point out in this specific example. If you were the original owner, your Springfield "depreciation" would cost you a couple hundred dollars. The appeal of a custom Colt is greater than a custom Springfield. (Especially when the gun has been through a true custom shop; all OEM 'faults' are understood as *usually* remedied--for instance, the shoddy workmanship of some 70 & 80's Colts will have been reworked by the custom 'smith. The result is, generally there's no loss of fan base for a true custom-gunsmithed Colt, even amongst Colt detractors.)

Front serrations on the slide date the gun as a recent production; I'd bet everything I own that it was not produced during the Jim Clark Sr. era. JC Jr. might have a great following, but his reputation isn't nearly as strong as his father's. I've not even heard his name bandied about seriously on any of the 'usual' 1911 forums nor LTW. (and to tell the truth, I haven't read the 3 most popular 1911 forums regularly in 3-4 years, but I read the LTW forum at least 2x weekly. If his name [Jr's] comes up at all, it's mostly similar to this case--wanting to find out about his reputed quality)

Numerous people have discussed the "stickiness" of the front strap 'checkering'. That's old school; one of the first versions of grip alterations performed by Jim Clark Sr. As I recall, it was called 'tiger-tooth' (tiger "something") and was so abrasive that after a couple hundred rounds, the teeth caused slight bleeding because they were so sharp. This was not unusual; the front strap was not checkered, the 'teeth' were separated distinctly enough that they were spaced apart farther than those on a bastard file; and sharper, too. I don't know what caused its' popularity to wane; perhaps customer feedback. The grip was unforgiving--if you pulled the gun with that treatment out of a holster and your grip was misaligned, you damn near had to use the other hand to hold the gun to realign the grip because it was just tough to slide the strong hand's fingers to readjust because the grip really did work! As PMClaine describes, it did look like tiny metal shards embedded in the front strap; however, in actuality, it was metal cut away from the OEM grip with a 'chisel' made by Clark for that specific purpose. The gun pictured will not have that treatment; if checkered at all, it's probably machine-checkered.

Check the amount and severity of the meltdown treatment. Lots of guys dislike the "Clark version" of dehorning, finding it too severe, from an aesthetic viewpoint. That could hold up a quick-sale timetable. (It could also speed your sale if you find someone who really likes it and has been looking for a Clark-meltdown gun. But more likely, that feature would cull a larger portion of buyers than it would appeal to.)

Your picture is too poor to tell for sure, but it almost looks like the pistol is nickeled, not stainless. If it is nickeled, your potential market just shrank by about 80%. The finish doesn't stand up well to holstering and abuse, either. Notwithstanding the 1911-purists' objections over the slide's front serrations, a nickel finish "limits" the pistol to its current modified state. Aside from R&R parts, nothing can be done to the slide or frame without having the nickel stripped first--an extra cost, and it requires special talents and gunsmiths.

Don't let Pistolsmith Guild awards add any weight to your decision-making. It may only be my impression, but it could be that the only 'smiths ever considered for the award are those who pay their dues. That is to say, there are lots of professional gunsmiths who regularly contribute/post on the LTW site who've never been "Pistolsmith of the Year".

Certainly, not every 'best' and nationally-known gunsmith posts on the LTW site, but there are several names that DON'T belong there who never post. One of them I know was a Guild member, and I wouldn't deal with him ever again because of his low quality standards. His apprentice posted over at LTW for a couple years and then disappeared just last year ("to greener pastures"...that's verbatim; I always found it fascinating that the touted "gunsmith" never contributed personally, though). I'm not saying the Clarks are in that group; I'm just saying that membership in the Guild doesn't by default make the member an excellent gunsmith. It does make for an exclusive "club" and limited roster to award from, though.
 
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Ya got me curious, so I went over to the Clark website. Seems they've stopped taking in customer guns for modifications. It's the trend nowadays. Most premium 'smiths favor certain brands/models for a base gun; it can alleviate built-in 'problems' that accompany certain OEMs. I guess they all like the idea of an easy markup for the base gun. Anyway, if you look here:
Meltdown by Clark Custom Guns, Inc.

The "Standard Features" modifications list for a customer-supplied Springfield back in 6/2012 was $925. If I was to buy the gun you're considering, as a keeper for myself, I wouldn't hardly pay any more than that unless there were additional (documented) modifications. So your buy price should be less than that because your sell price should be ~$925 or higher according to documented additional modifications.

Google "Jim Clark 1911" and search for a thread about complaints. It was on Dane Burn's Pistolsmith forum. Burns has a pretty sorry rep for editing and even deleting posts on his forum so as to cast favored smiths (including himself) and friends in the best light. That said, there's a thread that stands, with numerous complaints about Clark work/service.
 
makes me wonder why he starts off with a manufacturers weapon instead of building his own from the ground up?

Callaway and Shelby don't build cars; they enhance someone else's product.

I have a Clark Bianchi Cup revolver that's slicker than the proverbial elephant snot.
 
I have had a clark before, as to value I personally would say I depends on what all clark did to it, and when he did it, the older clark stuff is more sought after, the one I had was one of the most accurate smooth 45's I have ever had, regret selling mine...
 
Callaway and Shelby don't build cars; they enhance someone else's product.

.

I'm a simple man, but I see a HUGE difference between a car and a handgun, as far as manufacturing 1 from the ground up or starting with a complete model to customize.
 
Simply put, DeLorean wanted to build cars; Jack Roush wanted to make them faster.

Bill Wilson started by enhancing 1911s and later decided to move up to full production; Clark did not.

As you said, you've never held a Clark...
 
Just asking, not trying to argue, but if he is so good, makes me wonder why he starts off with a manufacturers weapon instead of building his own from the ground up?
Again, just curious. Bottom line, a Wilson , Brown, etc. will still fetch more on resale, I honestly believe, but just my opinion.
I don't know how old you are, but Wilson, Baer, Ed Brown, etc guns are fairly recent. Early on, before cost effective CNC machining, all the custom smiths had to use a base frame and slide. Usually it was a Colt 70 series, but as those became harder to source, Springfields and even a few Norincos were used as base guns. This practice went away when McCormick, Wilson, came out with gunsmith frames and slides. Now all "custom" smiths can have there own frame, generally made by the same forge and machine company, much like many precision rifle actions are private labeled Defiance actions.

On the early guns, the smith usually put their name on them somewhere.
 
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Custom gun shops like Wilson, Nighthawk, and numerous others build guns from receivers and slides forged or cast by someone else. Their names are engraved or stamped on the side, but they do NOT necessarily have their own forging and casting operations.
 
What state is the original poster in... i have a clark that looks very similar to that one