Mounting a Bushnell Elite 3-12x44 on a LMT MWS

[Rmac757]

Hey guys. Just got my LMT LM8MWS. I am gonna put a Busnell Elite Tactical 3-12x44 scope on it. Does anybody have any recommendations on ring or mount height. I am sticking with the Sopmod stock for now and want to keep the scope low enough for a proper cheek weld. I'm not that concerned with fitting any BUIS under the scope. Any advice is appreciated.

 

[lilharcher]

Take a look at the Larue LT158, as it has 10 MOA built into the mount and will allow you to take your rifle out a bit further. Probably a tiny bit high, but I use it with my SOPMOD stock too and have no issues.

 

[tickled pink]

This is my Bushnell 3.5-10x45mm scope mounted on my Colt LE6920 M4 and it has perfect cheek weld. I suggest you take your AR to a sporting goods store and mount it there so you can see if it has a cheek weld that fits you.

I ended up buying a Bushnell AR/223 (4.5-18x40mm) scope which I used the same mounts and I am much happier with the option of using 18 power if I wish to. I really love this scope.

With the new scope the riser cost $12 and the rings cost $14.

 

[SomeOtherGuy]

Standard AR15 height will work best for cheekweld - this height is around 1.40-1.50" scope centerline above the rail, and many companies offer it in one piece mounts. I like the ADM Delta mount for monolithic type uppers. If you want a little lower (by .06" I think) and cheaper, look at the ADM Recon-S. Or the Bobro precision optic mount. Or the Leupold Mark 2 IMS, one of your lower cost ($95 ish) options. You can also save some weight and cost going with 1.4" height rings like the Warne AR15 height rings, but IMHO you are losing a bit of strength and simplicity if you do so.

 

[Rmac757]

Thanks guys. Went with then LT158. I have the LT104 on a 223 SPR build with a USO SR6 so I figured I'd continue down the same path. Thanks for the help and comments.

 

[tickled pink]

If you are planning on shooting out to 1,000 yds. I suggest you go with a 20 MOA instead of a 10 MOA. I shoot in competition at 1,000 yds. and with a 20 MOA rail which gives me plenty of elevation adjustment since I need 108 one quarter MOA clicks to get me in the center of the target.

I am also going to order these glue on for the elevation turret after I make my drop chart. They are very accurate. Range your target with a laser rangefinder then turn the turret to the yards, hold for wind and shoot. No computer necessary.

http://customturretsystems.com

 

[Rmac757]

I kind of like the custom elevation turrets.

If you are planning on shooting out to 1,000 yds. I suggest you go with a 20 MOA instead of a 10 MOA. I shoot in competition at 1,000 yds. and with a 20 MOA rail which gives me plenty of elevation adjustment since I need 108 one quarter MOA clicks to get me in the center of the target.

I am also going to order these glue on for the elevation turret after I make my drop chart. They are very accurate. Range your target with a laser rangefinder then turn the turret to the yards, hold for wind and shoot. No computer necessary.

Custom Turret Systems | Affordable Custom Turret Labels

 

[Rmac757]

A little follow up

 

[Cobracutter]

All these years and people still reccomending Larue for mounts.........sad.

 

[Rmac757]

All these years and people still reccomending Larue for mounts.........sad.

I've never had an issue with them. Maybe I haven't been here long enough to know what's "in" and what not.

 

[samnev]

All these years and people still reccomending Larue for mounts.........sad.

What type of mount would you recommend for an LMT rather than a LaRue? What's your opinion of ADM Recon mount?

 

[997/2man]

All these years and people still reccomending Larue for mounts.........sad.

He's right.

ADM is a better mount, and is less than a LaRue. Look at how the larue grips the rail, there are only the two rotating pieces engaging the rail. ADM spreads load along the entire mount.

I wish I had the pic, from the rear of the rifle, it is very evident which system engages more of the rail. Bobro is even nicer, the way they do the rings.

It's not even close. It has nothing to due with the fact that LaRue is a tool.

Good luck.

 

[Rmac757]

He's right.

ADM is a better mount, and is less than a LaRue. Look at how the larue grips the rail, there are only the two rotating pieces engaging the rail. ADM spreads load along the entire mount.

I wish I had the pic, from the rear of the rifle, it is very evident which system engages more of the rail. Bobro is even nicer, the way they do the rings.

It's not even close. It has nothing to due with the fact that LaRue is a tool.

Good luck.

I've got both in various mounts. I've used the ADM most recently on a TA33 for a mid length KAC because it was cheaper and a good mount. As far as the dual lever quick release mounts for larger optics, I've had a lot of luck with the Larues on various rifles. I think we're talking 6 and one half. The Larues tend to be more pricey but IMHO to say it's not even close is kind of a stretch. To be honest as far as I can tell they both work well for their intended purpose and I don't baby my rifles. The only downside is that Larue is usually about $30 more than ADM. I'm not sure what you meant ny Larue being a tool. Are you talking about the owner Mark Larue? Do you mind telling me what happen? I'd be curious to know as I've spent a lot of money with them.

ADM mount with TA33

 

[Will_Power]

ADM is a better mount, and is less than a LaRue. Look at how the larue grips the rail, there are only the two rotating pieces engaging the rail. ADM spreads load along the entire mount.

I wish I had the pic, from the rear of the rifle, it is very evident which system engages more of the rail. Bobro is even nicer, the way they do the rings.

It's not even close.

Huh. Today I learned.

This is one of those reasons why I read the Hide. So much experience and information to draw from.

I'm going to be buying a quality scope and rings/base later this year and this is good to know. My ignorant assumption until now was that the LaRue's were the only way to go.

My own use will be on a 5.56 and learning read the wind and take it out accurately to 600 yards.

What sort of MOA base would you guys suggest for that, if any?

 

[Cobracutter]

Ok heres the deal. I have written various blurps and opinions of mounts of the years of this and a bunch of other forums.

Here is the meat and potatos:

Larue came to the scene in Ar accessory infancy a little over 10 years ago. ARMS was the only game in town, and made a complete shit mount/product. Larue was the first mount of decent quality that was QD. That is how they grew their brand, making mounts for everything and one of the best rail systems (for its time) out there.

Larue also has some pretty big Cons compared to the rest of the market. They require a tool to adjust to different rails (not all are the same). They Can and WILL gouge and marr your rails if the adjustment settings arent perfect. They WILL shoot loose over time. They Are NOT RTZ, atleast as they claim. For a RD or low power variable they are decent, but still inferior to designs like Bobro, ADM, GDI.

Larue also has not done shit in about 10 years other than get into the rifle game. Their mountss have not changed/evolved and either have their rails. They have used their market possition to sit on their ass and do zero inovation as far as mounts/rails (bassicaly anything non gun production goes).

Larue does however make a QD mount for every fucking device ever concvieved to fit to a 1913 Rail. For this reason, I still use a couple of their mounts for things like Atlas bipods or IR lasers.

ADM is still shit quality and design compared to other like Bobro. They are not machined as well, they are not RTZ and they are an inferior design. They allow a toolest adjustment, but you still need to index the bolt to fit the rails. ADM does have more bearing surface than Larue however.

Bobro is the shit. They are auto indexing, meaning they require no adjustment and fit the rail. They are one of the beter RTZ(NO QD is true RTZ, and it could be argued whenever u removed even a fixed mount, you need to rezero). Fit and finish is top end.

GDI are also quality but are stupid expensive. Paying $500 for a mount is fucking bonkers.


Most people would be better served with a quality 1 piece mount like Badger, SPHUR, KAC,ect. Unless you are using the optic to test or shoot on multiple rifles (that will all require a rezero) or are using multiple optics on the same gun (Like a Eotech or a 2.5-10x24NF depending on mission) then get a good fixed mount.

Fixed mounts are cheaper (generally), lighter, and are one less variable to go wrong. With a good torque wrench like the BORKA, you can take off and reinstall your optic in less than 30 seconds.

Conclusion:

GDI/Bobro > ADM/Larue

Fixed > QD

Don't listen to someone when they say " I own blah blah blah and it works" . One or two examples out of thousands mean shit. The industry has already weeded out what works and doesn't....so your little insignificant sample means jack shit. Someone who shoots a couple times a year at dirt piles doesn't even begin to understand what they don't know.

 

[997/2man]

I don't know if the posts were lost when SH changed servers and redesigned the site. Search for a little discussion between Larue and Poison123.


Larues will ding up your rail. ADM, Bobro won't. That's reason enough there. Look at the underside of your rail when you take a Larue off. See where the blueing/finish is gone? That's what I'm talking about.


ADM is less expensive. $30-40 at least, which buys me lunch for week, and yes, $40 bucks in this game is nothing, but why give it to fuck-o if you can help it.


Honestly, why go QD with that type of scope/rifle combo? Bet you a dollar that once it's mounted, you rarely take the scope off.


I'd write more, but my head hurts already. Good luck with the LMT, loved mine, hated the weight, went with SR-25 EMC.

 

[Changed]

A pair of Seekin's high (1.5) rings would work equally as well.

 

[997/2man]

A pair of Seekin's high (1.5) rings would work equally as well.

Fucking bingo. AND, they are reasonably priced, less than $200.

 

[Rmac757]

Ok heres the deal. I have written various blurps and opinions of mounts of the years of this and a bunch of other forums.

Here is the meat and potatos:

Larue came to the scene in Ar accessory infancy a little over 10 years ago. ARMS was the only game in town, and made a complete shit mount/product. Larue was the first mount of decent quality that was QD. That is how they grew their brand, making mounts for everything and one of the best rail systems (for its time) out there.

Larue also has some pretty big Cons compared to the rest of the market. They require a tool to adjust to different rails (not all are the same). They Can and WILL gouge and marr your rails if the adjustment settings arent perfect. They WILL shoot loose over time. They Are NOT RTZ, atleast as they claim. For a RD or low power variable they are decent, but still inferior to designs like Bobro, ADM, GDI.

Larue also has not done shit in about 10 years other than get into the rifle game. Their mountss have not changed/evolved and either have their rails. They have used their market possition to sit on their ass and do zero inovation as far as mounts/rails (bassicaly anything non gun production goes).

Larue does however make a QD mount for every fucking device ever concvieved to fit to a 1913 Rail. For this reason, I still use a couple of their mounts for things like Atlas bipods or IR lasers.

ADM is still shit quality and design compared to other like Bobro. They are not machined as well, they are not RTZ and they are an inferior design. They allow a toolest adjustment, but you still need to index the bolt to fit the rails. ADM does have more bearing surface than Larue however.

Bobro is the shit. They are auto indexing, meaning they require no adjustment and fit the rail. They are one of the beter RTZ(NO QD is true RTZ, and it could be argued whenever u removed even a fixed mount, you need to rezero). Fit and finish is top end.

GDI are also quality but are stupid expensive. Paying $500 for a mount is fucking bonkers.


Most people would be better served with a quality 1 piece mount like Badger, SPHUR, KAC,ect. Unless you are using the optic to test or shoot on multiple rifles (that will all require a rezero) or are using multiple optics on the same gun (Like a Eotech or a 2.5-10x24NF depending on mission) then get a good fixed mount.

Fixed mounts are cheaper (generally), lighter, and are one less variable to go wrong. With a good torque wrench like the BORKA, you can take off and reinstall your optic in less than 30 seconds.

Conclusion:

GDI/Bobro > ADM/Larue

Fixed > QD

Don't listen to someone when they say " I own blah blah blah and it works" . One or two examples out of thousands mean shit. The industry has already weeded out what works and doesn't....so your little insignificant sample means jack shit. Someone who shoots a couple times a year at dirt piles doesn't even begin to understand what they don't know.

Dude, your kinda pissing on my thread. I don't have 1,100 posts on the hide....that doesn't mean I don't shoot a lot or have experience with various mounts and optics. I thought I would stop lurking and start posting on the hide to gain insightful, non-condescending advice. I am running my first gas .308, that's true but your comments on who's good, better, best come off as being a bit elitist. Putting a Spuhr mount on this setup was unrealistic right now. I have owned Larue mounts for years on Various rifles and have never had an issue with any of them. As far as the marring goes I haven't had an issue with it of note. My "insignificant little sample"? Go find someone else's thread to piss on. You must be super hardcore.

 

[Rmac757]

I don't know if the posts were lost when SH changed servers and redesigned the site. Search for a little discussion between Larue and Poison123.


Larues will ding up your rail. ADM, Bobro won't. That's reason enough there. Look at the underside of your rail when you take a Larue off. See where the blueing/finish is gone? That's what I'm talking about.


ADM is less expensive. $30-40 at least, which buys me lunch for week, and yes, $40 bucks in this game is nothing, but why give it to fuck-o if you can help it.


Honestly, why go QD with that type of scope/rifle combo? Bet you a dollar that once it's mounted, you rarely take the scope off.


I'd write more, but my head hurts already. Good luck with the LMT, loved mine, hated the weight, went with SR-25 EMC.

You owe me a dollar

 

[Cobracutter]

Dude, your kinda pissing on my thread. I don't have 1,100 posts on the hide....that doesn't mean I don't shoot a lot or have experience with various mounts and optics. I thought I would stop lurking and start posting on the hide to gain insightful, non-condescending advice. I am running my first gas .308, that's true but your comments on who's good, better, best come off as being a bit elitist. Putting a Spuhr mount on this setup was unrealistic right now. I have owned Larue mounts for years on Various rifles and have never had an issue with any of them. As far as the marring goes I haven't had an issue with it of note. My "insignificant little sample"? Go find someone else's thread to piss on. You must be super hardcore.

I was asked by 3 seperate people who quotes me to expound on what I had written.

This is not YOUR thread, this is Snipershide/Lowlights Thread. When you post a discussion in a public forum, don't complain when people drop in to actually discuss the subject matter. If you don't like it, then don't post.

What makes it unrealistc? You have a $3K+ rifle with a ~$1K optic... so why would you cheap out with a shitty interface between the two?

You are just playing into that same "I have blah blah blah and never had an issue"........yet convientley ignore and are ignorant to the publicly availible history and data that is out there.

I am sure there are a number of retarded countersniper owners out there who think their optics are just as good as a S&B, yet don't even have enough knowledge and experince to understand how ignorant they trully are. They don't even understand the difference between a fucntional and non functional optic. Its no different than a ostrich sticking his head in the sand, thinking it will protect them from predators.

People used to walk around saying the earth is flat for many years too, doesn't make it the truth.

 

[Changed]

Brother he's not trying to bang on you about this. He is trying to help you make an informed decision. The condescension you sense is probably exasperation with the frequent recommendations that Larue gets. Larue hasn't done anything really innovative in recent years. There are serious functional issues with their products, yet they are too busy dusting dillos to make an effort to improve upon the products. There are far better products out there. When you ask a question like your OP "what height rings", it invites folks to advise you on things.

By the way, I have personally had an upper chewed to death by a larue QD mount.

TC

 

[Cobracutter]

Fucking bingo. AND, they are reasonably priced, less than $200.

Rings are a good option for monolithic uppers like the MWS, but for most of the typical Ar15/10 guns that are getting optics, I feel more comfortable keeping the mount/rings on the upper.

With most of the larger optics, you will need some type of canteliver mount in order to get the correct eye relief for most optics.

Personaly, I feel better with a 1 piece mount than rings. What I sacrfice in weight gain I make up for in a more rigid and squared mouting platform (with quality mounts obviously).

 

[Rmac757]

I was asked by 3 seperate people who quotes me to expound on what I had written.

This is not YOUR thread, this is Snipershide/Lowlights Thread. When you post a discussion in a public forum, don't complain when people drop in to actually discuss the subject matter. If you don't like it, then don't post.

What makes it unrealistc? You have a $3K+ rifle with a ~$1K optic... so why would you cheap out with a shitty interface between the two?

You are just playing into that same "I have blah blah blah and never had an issue"........yet convientley ignore and are ignorant to the publicly availible history and data that is out there.

I am sure there are a number of retarded countersniper owners out there who think their optics are just as good as a S&B, yet don't even have enough knowledge and experince to understand how ignorant they trully are. They don't even understand the difference between a fucntional and non functional optic. Its no different than a ostrich sticking his head in the sand, thinking it will protect them from predators.

People used to walk around saying the earth is flat for many years too, doesn't make it the truth.

My intent wasn't to complain, though your replies are a tad bit aggressive for seemingly no reason. I appreciate your "advice". Your right, this is lowlights thread and board. We actually shoot at the same range here in Colorado I believe though I don't think I've met him. Your discounting my experience with a particular company and their products seems a bit off base. I didn't pick up a rifle the day I showed up on the hide. I'd say personal experience is a huge factor when determining a product purchase. I didn't know much about the Bobro, but it looks like a nice mount. I do have experience with ADM mounts. I don't think the Larue is a "cheap" interface between the rifle and optic. I wasn't sure which direction I wanted to go with this platform so I decided on the The bushy until I was comfortable with the performance of it. If it's where I want it to be I will probably end up with another F1. Would I of liked to of topped this off with a S&B right away in a Spuhr mount....of course. Can I afford to do that....no f-ing way. I wanted to have versatility of a QD mount ( play around with some other optics on the rifle ) I was kind of hoping this wasn't the Arfcom of precision shooting.

 

[Rmac757]

Larue is not equivalent to Countersniper. That's a stretch.

 

[Rmac757]

Brother he's not trying to bang on you about this. He is trying to help you make an informed decision. The condescension you sense is probably exasperation with the frequent recommendations that Larue gets. Larue hasn't done anything really innovative in recent years. There are serious functional issues with their products, yet they are too busy dusting dillos to make an effort to improve upon the products. There are far better products out there. When you ask a question like your OP "what height rings", it invites folks to advise you on things.

By the way, I have personally had an upper chewed to death by a larue QD mount.

TC

Appreciate the advice, like I said this is my first Gas .308.

 

[Rmac757]

I wasn't aware of the animosity towards Larue. I just started reading this board

 

[Rmac757]

All of this being said, I'm having a hell of a time getting use to the cheek weld on the STR.

 

[997/2man]

Rings are a good option for monolithic uppers like the MWS, but for most of the typical Ar15/10 guns that are getting optics, I feel more comfortable keeping the mount/rings on the upper.

With most of the larger optics, you will need some type of canteliver mount in order to get the correct eye relief for most optics.

Personaly, I feel better with a 1 piece mount than rings. What I sacrfice in weight gain I make up for in a more rigid and squared mouting platform (with quality mounts obviously).

I concur. Like this:

 

[Rmac757]

Honestly the LMT was probably my second choice to the KAC, but availability and price made it impossible.****correction**** I noticed that this is a 15 not 25. I have an SR-15 and love it. I'm thinking I need to back my scope up to get the relief I'm looking for. It feels like I'm still picking my head up. Another reason I like the one piece., I can do this quick.

I concur. Like this:

 

[Changed]

I hold no animosity towards LT products or the company. From what I understand Mr. Larue is a fine upstanding citizen.

 

[Cobracutter]

I hold no animosity towards LT products or the company. From what I understand Mr. Larue is a fine upstanding citizen.

Hes actualy kind of a dickhead. He talks shit about anyone that questions his products and his IQ is somewhere around Room temp. There are a good number of members including me that have had bad experinces from him over the years. Anywhere from a guy whose rifle would not group with ANY loads that was told "tough, sell it if u don't like it, my guns have great resale value" to people waiting on guns for years and then Larue changing the terms/products without even asking.


His shit is overpriced (you didn't think the "free" swag dillos, dust and your 18th copy of the International sniper competition doesn't factor into product cost?), he has a shitty attitude and the vast majority of his products are obsolete compared to whats been on the market for a few years.

I still buy certain products from him. Obscure mounts that no one else makes and his rebranded VTAC padded sling with QD nubs are the best on the market for their price. I don't need another DVD or bumper sticker however.

 

[Rmac757]

Uhhh?

Brother he's not trying to bang on you about this. He is trying to help you make an informed decision. The condescension you sense is probably exasperation with the frequent recommendations that Larue gets. Larue hasn't done anything really innovative in recent years. There are serious functional issues with their products, yet they are too busy dusting dillos to make an effort to improve upon the products. There are far better products out there. When you ask a question like your OP "what height rings", it invites folks to advise you on things.

By the way, I have personally had an upper chewed to death by a larue QD mount.

TC

 

[Rmac757]

Hes actualy kind of a dickhead. He talks shit about anyone that questions his products and his IQ is somewhere around Room temp. There are a good number of members including me that have had bad experinces from him over the years. Anywhere from a guy whose rifle would not group with ANY loads that was told "tough, sell it if u don't like it, my guns have great resale value" to people waiting on guns for years and then Larue changing the terms/products without even asking.


His shit is overpriced (you didn't think the "free" swag dillos, dust and your 18th copy of the International sniper competition doesn't factor into product cost?), he has a shitty attitude and the vast majority of his products are obsolete compared to whats been on the market for a few years.

I still buy certain products from him. Obscure mounts that no one else makes and his rebranded VTAC padded sling with QD nubs are the best on the market for their price. I don't need another DVD or bumper sticker however.

Ok that's pretty funny. I can't even give those away anymore

 

[Changed]

Hes actualy kind of a dickhead. He talks shit about anyone that questions his products and his IQ is somewhere around Room temp. There are a good number of members including me that have had bad experinces from him over the years. Anywhere from a guy whose rifle would not group with ANY loads that was told "tough, sell it if u don't like it, my guns have great resale value" to people waiting on guns for years and then Larue changing the terms/products without even asking.


His shit is overpriced (you didn't think the "free" swag dillos, dust and your 18th copy of the International sniper competition doesn't factor into product cost?), he has a shitty attitude and the vast majority of his products are obsolete compared to whats been on the market for a few years.

Come on, Cobra, I was taking the high road! You gotta read into the whole, "Fine upstanding citizen" part.

 

[Cobracutter]

Touche

 

[samnev]

Rmac757, your right Cobracutter's posts are aggressive sometimes even over the line but if you cut through all of that and the course language the advise he offers is usually spot on. On the LaRue mounts for example. I inherited a couple of Larue mounts on rifles that I have bought and he is correct when he say they need a wrench to adjust and will mar your rails. My rails have not been "chewed up" but the finish has been partially removed where the mount clamps to the rails.
Also his recommendation of a fixed over a QD mount.

 

[Rmac757]

I appreciate your advice on the performance of the Larues. But like I stated previously in this thread, I own a few of them and have for years. I have gotten good performance from them ( as well as ADM's). This is not to say the others aren't good. I just own Larues on a few of my rifles and they work.

 

[samnev]

I appreciate your advice on the performance of the Larues. But like I stated previously in this thread, I own a few of them and have for years. I have gotten good performance from them ( as well as ADM's). This is not to say the others aren't good. I just own Larues on a few of my rifles and they work.

I must say I agree with you on the ADM mounts. While I am not crazy about Larue QD mount as they do mar the bottom of the rails but I have never had any other problems with them. I inherited them on used rifles I bought. I really like the ADM mounts and just put another Recon on my H&K SR9TC. Additionally I have never had a Larue shoot loose then again I gorilla tighten them. Cobracutter is correct when he says most QD do not get taken off at least in my case. I have only taken mine off to switch to another rifle otherwise they stay fixed. I usually prefer fixed mounts on my AR's

 

[997/2man]

I'm wondering why no one has said the "Spuhr" word.




On a LMT, it would be a stud duck.







Good Luck.

 

[samnev]

I'm wondering why no one has said the "Spuhr" word.




On a LMT, it would be a stud duck.







Good Luck.

I believe Cobracutter like them in his post which is #15.

 

[Rmac757]

That would be my first choice....if I could afford it. This rifle has already pushed my rifle budget this year and it's only Feb. I'm still on the fence about ordering a SS .260 barrel later this year.

I'm wondering why no one has said the "Spuhr" word.




On a LMT, it would be a stud duck.







Good Luck.

 

[tickled pink]

I just changed my mounts to these Nikons.

 

[tipper]

The mount that works so you don't need a step stool or ladder on the stock to see the scope. THE END