Precision AR problems

Bull81

Lost Cause
Full Member
Minuteman
Feb 13, 2017
341
33
Mississippi
Im have problems with one of my precision ARs. It's throwing the first round out of the mag about a foot high with every mag change. I've tried only putting a few rounds in the mag, different mags, it makes no difference. It just started doing this. After the first round it goes back to its original POI. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Specs
18" Rainer ultra match 1/8 twist 223 whylde chamber
jp low mass carrier
various loads but seems to be worse with the 70 gr RDFs
 
Most the time if i get that kind of variation, its because of a poor scope mount and my scope shakes free, which is fairly often when i dont get it quite right. Then check torque on barrel nut and muzzle device. Look at the crown for nicks.
 
I don't think it's the scope/mount, because the following rounds are back on target. I'd suggest using the bolt assist, but I strongly suspect you've already tried that.

Do you push the operating handle fully forward before releasing the bolt? That might affect the bolt's battery position. BCG lube may be a factor.

Try doing the reload, then ejecting the chambered round, and checking the bullet tip for any deformation. The mag lips/feed ramps/mag catch may be affecting the first round feeding/chambering process.

Keep in mind, where the gun points is partly a result of the recoil pulse as it fires. Maybe there's something different happening with the first round's recoil pulse. A higher impact could point to a longer barrel dwell time.

Finally, try seating the bullet about .010" deeper for just a few test rounds.

As I understand it, the M4 feed ramps are intended for heavier, longer bullets. Precision rifles get shot with longer bullets, maybe they get shot with some that could be a loaded tad shorter.

FWIW, I set my seater for factory 55FMJ length, loading with HDY 75gr HPBT-Match. They feed and function fine, and shoot great as well in a factory Stag Model 6 Super Varminter. It may not be the precision rifle you're using, but it's what I've got.

For F T/R, single feeding is required. I bought the Satern single feed magazine follower. As delivered, the follower blocked the bolt from hand cycling rearward until I cut about 1/8" of an inch off the front lip of the follower's upper ramp at a 45 degree angle. Since then, it works like a charm. I don't know if single feeding has any bearing on what you do, but I throw this out there for your consideration.

Greg
 
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Thanks for the replies everyone. Greg I will definitely try a couple of the things you suggested and see how it does. I do believe it's something with the relay the first round is entering the chamber, I guess I could do a mag change before it's actually empty and see what affect that has. If there is no thrown shot at that point I'll know it's not loading the first round correctly when the bolt release is pushed or it's manually cycled.
 
Im have problems with one of my precision ARs. It's throwing the first round out of the mag about a foot high with every mag change. I've tried only putting a few rounds in the mag, different mags, it makes no difference. It just started doing this. After the first round it goes back to its original POI. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Specs
18" Rainer ultra match 1/8 twist 223 whylde chamber
jp low mass carrier
various loads but seems to be worse with the 70 gr RDFs

You sort of have a strange combination of parts. Is there some need for the LMOS carrier? Are you using an adj. gas block as well? Are these all reloads? What's the OAL? You would be the 1st person here to get 70 RDFs to shoot at mag length with any accuracy.
 
Mike The low mass carrier was one I had laying around so thats what I used. Yes I am running it with a adjustable gas block. Everything I've ever run through this rifle or any rifle for that matter in the past 10 years has been reloads. I'm running the RDF's at 2.300 OAL the mags I am using are capable of handleing up to around 2.315 or so. I haven't had any trouble with this set up in the past and the rifle is accurate usually in the .5 range for 5 shots with 77 TMK's sometimes considerably less but less is not the norm. As for the RDF's I've gotten them to shoot pretty good at 2.300 but do have the occasional flier that can't be explained. I was getting inconsistent seating depths and found that the stem was referencing off the bullet tip so I've got a new stem but haven't loaded any more since to try. This issue with the first round out of the mag going so high has just started and does it regardless of the bullets but does seem to be worse with the RDF's
 
.. This issue with the first round out of the mag going so high has just started and does it regardless of the bullets but does seem to be worse with the RDF's

Ok, thanks for the additional info. Have you tried this? Load the 1st round from the mag and eject it to check for damage? I would fire the 2nd round and see if it impacts high as well. Also, what happens if you only load one round from mag and fire? Will it impact high? Are you slingshotting the BCG with the CH or using the bolt release to load that 1st round?
 
I havnt really checked for damage but will definitely do that. I also havnt only loaded one round either so I'll give that a try as well. I always use the bolt release to charge the weapon, may be wrong but I always felt like that was closer to how the rifle runs itself vs charging with the charging handle. I'll be glad to give these all a try and report back when I get back to this rifle, I moved on to load development on a bolt rifle so need to finish that up first
 
Bull81;n6266758 I'll be glad to give these all a try and report back when I get back to this rifle said:
The more I think about this, I'm just wondering if you've got a neck tension issue since you reload. The only way I can see having a higher impact is if that 1st round is having the bullet set back on loading decreasing the length and increasing pressure.

Why this wouldn't happen to the restof the mag???? I don't know, but maybe measure the OAL or BTO of that 1st round after you eject it. I wouldn't think it would be an angle thing coming out of the feed lips. Of course you could also test if this happens with an odd or even number of rounds as 1st round with odd total will come from the left side of the mag and right with even #.

Seems like if you have a set back issue it would be more noticeable with the RDFs as they are so much longer.
 
Same results when chambering the first round via bolt release vs. leaving the bolt closed and racking it? What about single feeding? If you load one round, fire it, then load another and fire it, does POI shift? Or are both of them about a foot high?

Also, RDFs like lots of jump... I see don't this having any affect on your main issue, but if you're having trouble with those 70grainers, try jumping them about 50 thou and see if that improves your results at all.
 
Just browsing I havnt tried charging with the charging handle, as explained earlier I have always felt like using the bolt release to charge the weapon was closer to how the rifle cycles itself. I will admit I may be dead wrong about that though. I can remember off the top of my head now what the Base to lands measurement was but I'm seated well over 50 thousands jump I think I'm closer to .070. If they won't work out the mag I don't want to fool with them. So far accuracy has been pretty good with them with the exception of a few fliers that I couldn't make since of, and of coarse this first one issue I'm having