260 vs 6.5 Creed, is there really a difference thats noticeable? I reload so factory ammo limitations isnt realy a concern. I know the 260 is slightly longer than the creed and has a bit more powder capacity, so besides that who can tell me.
- Thread starter matleez
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I'm not an expert, but I *think* the .260 does have a bit more powder capacity. But the Creedmoor has slightly higher pressure? So maybe it's a wash? Maybe it'll come down to what type of brass you can get... Someone else might have more info.
They're 99.99% identical.
6.5cm is just hornadys flavor of the 260 Remington and what Remington did to the 6.5-08 A square
6.5cm is just hornadys flavor of the 260 Remington and what Remington did to the 6.5-08 A square
^^^^ No, the 6.5 CM is based off the 30 TC case and the 260 is similar to the 243, 7-08, 308 case. They are different sizes. Ballistically they are very similar.
pic from the net 260 left 6.5 CM right
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pic from the net 260 left 6.5 CM right
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Check out this video. What I gathered when I was researching the 2 is that inside 800 yards it's a wash. After that the 260 is a little faster in the fsp category. Creedmore has way more factory options in ammo but the gap is slowly shrinking.
https://youtu.be/B8Qf1mIEY7E
https://youtu.be/B8Qf1mIEY7E
260 can be pushed a bit faster. Also if you reload, then 260 will be easier to form from 308 brass.
As a reloaded I went for the 260. Lowlight did a great piece on the difference and mybtakecaway was that they are essentially a wash until you get out a bit longer (800 plus). If you reload you might get a bit more from the 260. Either way I would suggest you can't go too wrong. It will all depend on what you intend to do with the rifle, your ability to reload and shoot.
They are not 99.99% identical in my opinion but pretty close. As stated before inside 800 no real advantage one way or the other.
I was running 130vld in mine at 2920 and it was money out to 1000. Don't have much experience with the creedmore though.
Sierracharlie338....
I was running 130vld in mine at 2920 and it was money out to 1000. Don't have much experience with the creedmore though.
Sierracharlie338....
just like everyone has said, the 260 is faster and the benefits of it are there if you reload. the creed is more for factory loaded ammo but can still be reloaded to superb accuracy.
I went with the 260 to push it further than the guys that shoot the creed at comps. i am using Reloader 17 and pushing 3109 FPS with a 130 gr VLD. that puts me supersonic at just over 1400 yards.
I went with the 260 to push it further than the guys that shoot the creed at comps. i am using Reloader 17 and pushing 3109 FPS with a 130 gr VLD. that puts me supersonic at just over 1400 yards.
Be careful with this one... I thought the same thing, and in fact this is one of the reasons that I went with .260 over 6.5CM on a build that I did. However, for shits and giggles, I decided that despite having a few pieces of (headstamped) .260 brass, I'd run a couple pieces of .308 brass through my .260 sizing die, just to see how difficult it was.
It turned out to be quite easy... simply apply a nice coat of resizing wax to the .308 case, cycle the handle on the press, and voila! However, I soon discovered that this process resulted in a neck that was .002-.004 too thick (compared to proper .260 brass). At this point, I had a choice... I could either spend a couple hundred dollars on a neck turning setup and go through all the headaches associated with neck turning, or I could take that same couple hundred dollars and invest in more (headstamped) .260 brass...
I love my new neck turning setup! ;-)
In any event, I s'pose that the core of the statement above regarding the formation of .260 brass from .308 brass is correct... if you're starting with a .308 case, it will be easier to form a .260 case than a 6.5CM case. I just wanted to make sure that we're all on the same page in saying that it may not be as simple as running it through your .260 sizing die and calling it a day.
Oh, and an additional option for the OP, since he is a reloader - the 6.5 SLR: http://www.6mmar.com/65_SuperLR.php . If I were going to be starting from scratch on a short action 6.5mm round, this is likely the direction that I would go... case capacity of the .260, with the longer neck and sharper shoulder of the 6.5x47. What's not to love?
One other item that took me to 260 instead of 6.5CM was that my 308 headspace and case measuring tools, as well as the 308 bushing NS shoulder bump die work on 260 with the simple swap of bushings since headspace datum line is .400" for each and the headspace dimension for both chambers is 1.630-1.640".
Only other watchout is if you have a Giraud trimmer and want to use the 308 holder with a 6.5 cutter for your 260 (which works) the max case length for 260 is 2.035" while 308 is 2.015". Most "trim-to" lengths are .010" under max. I trim to max +.000/-.005"
Only other watchout is if you have a Giraud trimmer and want to use the 308 holder with a 6.5 cutter for your 260 (which works) the max case length for 260 is 2.035" while 308 is 2.015". Most "trim-to" lengths are .010" under max. I trim to max +.000/-.005"
I went with the 260 AI (40 degree shoulder) cause I wanted something a little different. It's been a fun cartridge.
Right now, my pet load pushes the 142 SMK at 2980 fps at the muzzle.
Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
Right now, my pet load pushes the 142 SMK at 2980 fps at the muzzle.
Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
I know of quite a few people who have long action .260's because in many small actions you can end up crowding the case. In my Savage Model 11 I can seat the bullets all the way to the lands at 2.920. I have a low node that shoots 2750 with 4451 and 143 ELD-X and a higher node that shoots 2850 and this is out of a 22" barrel. Can't wait to try some Reloder 26.
I'll be running on a tikka t3x crt and from what I understand all tikka rifles are LA and I'll have a 20 in barrel so to get even close to 2775-2800 would be awesome.
I buy Hornady 7mm-08 brass and run it through the .260 Rem F/L resizer die. That's my case forming process, done and done.
While the 6.5CM has a nominally longer neck, this is only a potential issue when feeding from a magazine, as with a semi. My workaround is to substitute the SRA 140gr MatchKing, which has a slightly shorter profile.
As of yesterday, I loaded some .260 trial rounds with 143 ELD-X bullets, which actually protrude deep enough to put the boattail below the shoulder when loaded to Savage 10 magazine length. I'll be shooting them soon, and I guess we'll see if that deep seating length has noticeable drawbacks.
In my humble opinion, the biggest difference between the two chamberings boils down to simple marketing hype.
Greg
While the 6.5CM has a nominally longer neck, this is only a potential issue when feeding from a magazine, as with a semi. My workaround is to substitute the SRA 140gr MatchKing, which has a slightly shorter profile.
As of yesterday, I loaded some .260 trial rounds with 143 ELD-X bullets, which actually protrude deep enough to put the boattail below the shoulder when loaded to Savage 10 magazine length. I'll be shooting them soon, and I guess we'll see if that deep seating length has noticeable drawbacks.
In my humble opinion, the biggest difference between the two chamberings boils down to simple marketing hype.
Greg
Thanks for clarifying.
Yes, not as simple as running it through a 260 die and calling it a day.
However, 308 to 260 > 308 to 6.5CM. That's all I was saying.
I don't want to misspeak.
while i agree with your statements above about the 260 but go look at the price of the 6.5 SLR dies and tell me which is cheaper? buying more headstamped brass, neck turning tool, or $224 dies. either way, he is dropping at least another $100-250 either way he goes.
i really wanted to get the 6.5 slr so i am all for pushing that round. real question about the 6.5 slr, do you have to neck turn that one if you form it from 308?
Nailed it.
I have both. I started with the 260 and my reloads are 1/2-5/8 MOA at 2775 fps if I do my part. I traded for a 6.5 Creedmoor and my reloads for it are just as accurate and the velocity is 2750 fps. I have found that the best reason to own a 6.5 Creedmoor is when I don't have time to reload and need some ammo at the last minute. The Hornady 140 ELD factory ammo is a consistent 3/4 MOA. at 2750 fps and is readily available at several stores in my town. 260 factory ammo is very difficult to find in stock at local dealers.
Phil G
Phil G
You can use the seater diebut not the neck sizing die
Yes. At least with redding comp and forster ultra dies you can. I use my redding comp 260 seater die to seat 6.5CM and use forster 6.5CM die to seat 260 rem. I also you use redding comp 308 bushing die to neck size 260 rem with the appropriate bushing. .
The factory 140 ELD 6.5 Creedmoor ammo is doing 2825fps and 2880fps from my Creedmoors and is plenty accurate as the groups below show. The .260 isn't always faster than the Creedmoor as some in this thread think. No directed at you Phil.
The .260 vs Creedmoor battle gets a lot of hype. They are basically identical ballistically. It used to come down to handloading(.260) and using factory ammo(Creedmoor) but now with the Lapua and other brass available for the Creedmoor the reloading argument is a push. The factory ammo argument still leans towards the Creedmoor even though Hornady now started loading their 130 ELD in a .260 load.
Boils down to pick one and shoot it. Neither will make you a better shooter. Practice will.
Geeeez, Rob! What length barrel? Factory published value is 2710 from a 24 in. bbl. I get 2690 out of my 20 in. Tikka TR, and 2755 out of my 26 in. Krieger (both 1:8). Weirdly, the Krieger bbl is shooting factory 147s even faster than the 140s (2789). Haven't figured that one out yet.
260 Rem-140gr ELD 42.3 H4350. Lapua brass. 210M. 2835fps. 25" Bartlein.
6.5CM 123AMAX. 39.4 Varget. Horn brass 210M. 2875fps. 22" JP barrel AR.
I'm going to try the 130 gr ELD factory hornady loads and Fed GMM 142gr SMKs in my 260 this weekend and will update the fps.
I agree with most that nowadays it makes no difference what you go with. I bought the hornady match factory 260 ammo for $22/box and Fed GMM for $24/box. Just couple of years ago that was unheard of. The only 260 factory match loads avail were $2.25/round. The factory match ammo availability that 6.5CM had over 260 is pretty much gone the same way 260s lapua brass availability advantage over 6.5CM is gone. Or you can always forget those 2 and go with 6.5x47
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I get 2810fps from my 23" Criterion barrel. 42.5 of h4350, Hornady case, 140hpbt, CCI 200 primer.
27" and 28" respectively. The Creedmoor was developed and based on a 28" barrel and I have been using at or close to that since I started shooting it in 2008. I like getting the velocity and there is no issue getting around what are now called PRS matches with it.
My 27" handload is at 2850 with the 140s and 2825 with the 147 ELD.
I just ordered dies today from MidwasyUSA. Ordering my 260 MRAD 24" fluted barrel today. I had a Ruger RPR in 6.5, that I sold this spring. I'm excited to check 260 out myself, and see how the 147 eld's do with some RL-17? If I could get them going 2850 fps, I would be stocked!!!! We'll see where I end up at with the fps? I'll definitely take accuracy over speed, but hoping for both. I'm also happy about the Lapua brass. Not that I ever saw the downside of the hornady brass. I'm thinking about buying a Proof 6.5 barrel for my Savage FCP-SR that didn't sell on here and trying that out as well. Also looking at "The Fix" from Q. I still have all my 6.5 ammo. Now that Lapua makes 6.5 Creed brass with the small primer, I think its a total wash!?.......
Thank you for the stats gentlemen. It puts it all into perspective.
From what I can see if a person runs a 22" barrel in either cartridge they are not at a huge disadvantage compared to a 24" barrel.
There are factory rifles in all 3 lengths of 20,22, and 24". No PRS style rifle comes from the factory in a 26" that I know of in 65 or 260.
I think Browning may offer a 26" rifle but it's not a real PRS contender.
From what I can see if a person runs a 22" barrel in either cartridge they are not at a huge disadvantage compared to a 24" barrel.
There are factory rifles in all 3 lengths of 20,22, and 24". No PRS style rifle comes from the factory in a 26" that I know of in 65 or 260.
I think Browning may offer a 26" rifle but it's not a real PRS contender.
im running RL-17 with the 130 VLD's and getting 3109 fps out of a 26" shillen 260 barrel that is on my savage FCP-SR.
No most of the factory rifles come with 24" or under barrels. With a factory rifle I would get the 24". The Savage 12LRP has a 26" and you could drop it in a chassis if you wanted a longer barrel.
Hear, hear! I hereby move that it should be declared illegal to provide muzzle velocity numbers without stating the barrel length used to achieve those numbers.
Ive been shooting a .260 for a long time and shot many thousands of them through a half dozen custom barrels. I dont like the fact that most Lr bullets seat way down into the case. I'm on top of keeping my necks in good shape through annealing, but I can still feel the pressure ring of the bullet eclipsing the bottom
of the neck.
If you were correcting that issue by drawing up a new case from a clean sheet, you'd shorten the body and remove some of it's taper, steepen the shoulder, and lengthen the neck. What you end up with is a creedmoor. I think the velocity differences are a wash. If you're getting your first 6.5, the creedmoor seems like the correct choice today.
of the neck.
If you were correcting that issue by drawing up a new case from a clean sheet, you'd shorten the body and remove some of it's taper, steepen the shoulder, and lengthen the neck. What you end up with is a creedmoor. I think the velocity differences are a wash. If you're getting your first 6.5, the creedmoor seems like the correct choice today.
That's speedy! I get 2818fps from my 26" Bartlein barrel shooting 140gr ELD-M factory loads.
H4350 is slow. 2000MR is a speed demon. Still doing some load development on my GAP chambered 20" 6.5CM and I can launch the 140gr Berger Hybrids 2799FPS. With the same load, H4350 is about 130FPS slower then 2000MR. But if this Bartlein is the same as my 6.5SAUM, it should speed up as soon as I get a couple of hundred round down range.
Agreed. I got 2915FPS with Hornady 140bthp/AMAX and 42.0 2000MR but never got the accuracy that I'm getting with H4350 for my 260. For the 308 2000MR is my go to powder
I guess that I am more concerned with repeatable accuracy than with maximum speed. I was able to get over 4000 accurate .260 rounds out of my last 26" Bartlien barrel at 2750-2800 fps, using H4350.
My current barrel is a Rock Creek and is happy at 2800 fps for another 26" barrel using H4350. I personally think that 2750-2800 is a good comfortable, repeatable speed to be shooting for in .260/6.5 Creed (pun intended).
My current barrel is a Rock Creek and is happy at 2800 fps for another 26" barrel using H4350. I personally think that 2750-2800 is a good comfortable, repeatable speed to be shooting for in .260/6.5 Creed (pun intended).
Real world it comes down to a max of 50fps depending on how you reload as well as OAL ...
I have seen guys load a 260 long and chamber a round, then not shoot that round have the bullet pulled by catching the lands.
Otherwise ballistics they are identical as they use the same bullet and very similar speed
You have to be a 1/4 Minute Shooter All Day Long out to 1000 yards to see the difference
I have seen guys load a 260 long and chamber a round, then not shoot that round have the bullet pulled by catching the lands.
Otherwise ballistics they are identical as they use the same bullet and very similar speed
You have to be a 1/4 Minute Shooter All Day Long out to 1000 yards to see the difference
Is the 6.5 creed more accurate than the 260? Or is that totally dependent on barrel and ammo quality not cartridge design?
Is the only downside to owning and shooting a 260 having to trim the cases more and less factory ammo?
Thanks
Is the only downside to owning and shooting a 260 having to trim the cases more and less factory ammo?
Thanks
Accuracy is absolutely no different ...
It's not really a factor in this discussion
It's not really a factor in this discussion
the upside for me to choose the 260 over the 6.5 Creed was the fact that i had almost 2k cases in 308 that i could neck down to 6.5.
I believe you should be neck turning even your headstamped .260 brass. The neck turning is more to gain consistency around the neck so that tension on the bullet is equal (or as close as you can get to equal). I neck up .243 Win brass and neck turn it too.
I have been a dedicated .260 nut for the last few years, I love the caliber, I know it's somewhat "dated," but it's a great performer and is easy to reload for. That being said, I am having a new build completed here in the near future. I was opting between the 6.5x47 or the Creedmoor. I ended up going for the Creedmoor for two simple reasons: 1 - factory ammo that hammers and 2 - Lapua small primer pocket brass.
Out of all of the various .260 cases I have run (I don't shoot Lapua .260 brass because I run my cases in a gas gun too), I have had 0 experience in getting most cases past 5 reloads. And before you say, "well, FAL, it's because you're hot rodding them suckers," I say, "au contraire!" In fact, I purposely run loads that are on the slower side because I have found them to be extremely accurate and because I did not feel the practical "gains" of running hotter loads were worth torching the throats on my rifles. Essentially, the minute improvements in velocities were simply not worth the decreased barrel lives. Unfortunately, I have had piss poor experience with most factory .260 brass (RP and Federal).
I had purchased 500 Federal .260 cases a while back on here. Lucky for me, I split them up, sold 200ct to another member right after purchasing them. Unfortunately, I spent a boatload of time prepping those 300 remaining cases (sizing, turning necks, etc...) I shoot the first lot of 50 and they were absolutely shit in terms of primer pockets being smoked after that first load on the vast majority of them. After that debacle, I have been using .243 Win brass with much better success.
6.5 Creedmoor, 143 ELD-X, 48 gr RL26, Nosler Brass, BR2 primers, 26" X-Caliber Barrel,, 2999 fps average velocity ES 12 SD 6.6 , have gotten 3045 average velocity with 49 gr.but not as accurate and had ES 19 SD 9.6
I believe I should be able to lower ES with better case prep and more consistent powder weight. Still need to try different COAL, I have 2.910" to the lands and have only tested 2.890" as well as trying increases of 1/10 grain up to 48.4 of RL26.
I believe I should be able to lower ES with better case prep and more consistent powder weight. Still need to try different COAL, I have 2.910" to the lands and have only tested 2.890" as well as trying increases of 1/10 grain up to 48.4 of RL26.
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That is just way outside normal velocity. If one of my 6.5's did that, I'd send the chornograph back to the manufacturer to be repaired. More like 6.5-284 territory. Have you shot that at distance to figure drops? Ive never used rl26, so cant coment on your charge.
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