What r the advantages of tha Snipe Ir...I need help making a choice and need some input please
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Night Vision Trijicon Snipe Ir compared to a Reap Ir
- Thread starter KillerCreed
- Start date
Reap ir is the way you want to go. The snipe will give you too much poi shift in most cases and your image isn’t as clear as the reap.
Let me know now if you want one, I know where you can get one cheaper than anyone else.
Jay
Let me know now if you want one, I know where you can get one cheaper than anyone else.
Jay
The SNIPE and the REAP are "almost" the same ... the difference lies in the rear lens ...
For the REAP, this is a diopter lens, meaning it can adjust to a human's eyes if such eyes require adjustment (like mine do)
For the SNIPE, this is a collimating lens, meaning it attempts to automatically align between what it sees and what the lens behind it sees. This enables it to be a more successful "CLIPON" device.
==
I had a SNIPE earlier this year for several months, here it is on 5.56(18) in front of Burris xtr2 1.5-8x cq-mil scope.
==
And here is thru lens pic with the xtr2 on 8x looking at heated steel at 500yds ...
Yes, this image is a bit fuzzy. Part of that is the "camera" I am using (an old phone I use as my field camera and field Ballistic calculator, but no longer as a phone) ... the reticle was crisp in real life, not so much in the pic. But also, I am cranking the magnification of to 8x to see if it is usable. I found it usable for hitting the target and that was my purpose. I was not making hollywood movies. The documentation recommends no more than 4x of day scope magnification, but I like to push beyond the edges. For hitting the target, 8x works.
==
I ran the SNIPE side by side with another thermal clipon
I wanted to keep both, but I could not come up with the cash and so I sent the SNIPE back.
But for a thermal clipon under $10k, I think the SNIPE is the only one I would buy. I've also had an Apollo and the Apollo cannot stand up to the SNIPE.
==
So the advantage of the SNIPE is that is it s clipon ... the disadvantage of the SNIPE is that it is a clipon.
What are the advantages of thermal clipons versus thermal scopes ??? ( The REAP IR is a thermal scope).
If you only have one rifle and you like your day optic, and you want to keep your day optic on your rifle, then a thermal clipon is useful. You can mount the thermal clipon and confirm any POI offset and make adjustments if needed.
Issues with thermal clipons:
01 - Mounting most clipons under $10k, requires close physical alignment between the day scope optical center line and the clipon optical center line. Being outside this close physical alignment will require various adjustments. Either to the clipon boresight itself or to the rings and mounting systems of the day scope and the clipon itself.
Proper mounting of most clipons under $10k can be a project or group of projects, depending on the number of firearms to which you wish to mount the clipon. If you bought all your rifles and rail systems and rings, etc for your rifles with a view towards the heights of the clipon mounts you would be using, then you are probably ok. Otherwise, you might need to change your rings and mounts and mounting systems.
02 - Using day scope magnification (or internal digital magnification) on thermal clipons, zooms in on the TV screen display at the back of the thermal. Each 2x of day scope (or digital) magnification costs 75% of the remaining resolution. A 640 x 480 device becomes a 320 x 240 with 2x on the day scope, etc.
==
A dedicated thermal scope has optical magnification on the front lens. The REAP is 2.5x ... that means at 2.5x you get all 640 resolution .... digital magnification can be added as well ... like 2x digital gives you 5x net magnification but costs you half of your resolution. You are now a 320 device.
==
For night hunting most of my shots are under 100yds, most of the rest are under 200yds ... and all the rest have been under 301 yds. So at those distances I prefer a dedicated thermal scope with the magnification on the front. I then get full resolution with that stated front end magnification.
==
I happen to have more than one rifle, so I can have 2 or so rifles set up for night only ... and still have 5 others set up for day/night or day only.
==
The only use case where thermal clipons have been useful for me is long distance target shooting on heated steel out to 900yds. There, the high end military thermal clipons that can support 10x or more magnification are useful.
Cow at 10x at 375yds (the silver strings are the guy wires to my wind turbine)
==
10x at 500yds heated steel (12x24 inch)
==
UTC thermal clipon in front of Burris xtr2 3-15x scr-mil on 6.5G(18) rifle.
==
But note, all the thermal clipons I know of that support 10x plus on the day scope are over $10k in price. So, if you really want to shoot long distance at night with thermal, it can be done, but it is expensive. Alternatively, night vision clipons offer similar capability for a much lower cost.
==
So, if you have to get either a REAP or a SNIPE and you can't tell us what you would use them for ... then I would suggest the REAP ... it can be used as either a handheld spotter or a dedicated rifle scope ... and for 300yds or less night hunting ... I think you will find it easier to use as well.
.
For the REAP, this is a diopter lens, meaning it can adjust to a human's eyes if such eyes require adjustment (like mine do)
For the SNIPE, this is a collimating lens, meaning it attempts to automatically align between what it sees and what the lens behind it sees. This enables it to be a more successful "CLIPON" device.
==
I had a SNIPE earlier this year for several months, here it is on 5.56(18) in front of Burris xtr2 1.5-8x cq-mil scope.
==
And here is thru lens pic with the xtr2 on 8x looking at heated steel at 500yds ...
Yes, this image is a bit fuzzy. Part of that is the "camera" I am using (an old phone I use as my field camera and field Ballistic calculator, but no longer as a phone) ... the reticle was crisp in real life, not so much in the pic. But also, I am cranking the magnification of to 8x to see if it is usable. I found it usable for hitting the target and that was my purpose. I was not making hollywood movies. The documentation recommends no more than 4x of day scope magnification, but I like to push beyond the edges. For hitting the target, 8x works.
==
I ran the SNIPE side by side with another thermal clipon
I wanted to keep both, but I could not come up with the cash and so I sent the SNIPE back.
But for a thermal clipon under $10k, I think the SNIPE is the only one I would buy. I've also had an Apollo and the Apollo cannot stand up to the SNIPE.
==
So the advantage of the SNIPE is that is it s clipon ... the disadvantage of the SNIPE is that it is a clipon.
What are the advantages of thermal clipons versus thermal scopes ??? ( The REAP IR is a thermal scope).
If you only have one rifle and you like your day optic, and you want to keep your day optic on your rifle, then a thermal clipon is useful. You can mount the thermal clipon and confirm any POI offset and make adjustments if needed.
Issues with thermal clipons:
01 - Mounting most clipons under $10k, requires close physical alignment between the day scope optical center line and the clipon optical center line. Being outside this close physical alignment will require various adjustments. Either to the clipon boresight itself or to the rings and mounting systems of the day scope and the clipon itself.
Proper mounting of most clipons under $10k can be a project or group of projects, depending on the number of firearms to which you wish to mount the clipon. If you bought all your rifles and rail systems and rings, etc for your rifles with a view towards the heights of the clipon mounts you would be using, then you are probably ok. Otherwise, you might need to change your rings and mounts and mounting systems.
02 - Using day scope magnification (or internal digital magnification) on thermal clipons, zooms in on the TV screen display at the back of the thermal. Each 2x of day scope (or digital) magnification costs 75% of the remaining resolution. A 640 x 480 device becomes a 320 x 240 with 2x on the day scope, etc.
==
A dedicated thermal scope has optical magnification on the front lens. The REAP is 2.5x ... that means at 2.5x you get all 640 resolution .... digital magnification can be added as well ... like 2x digital gives you 5x net magnification but costs you half of your resolution. You are now a 320 device.
==
For night hunting most of my shots are under 100yds, most of the rest are under 200yds ... and all the rest have been under 301 yds. So at those distances I prefer a dedicated thermal scope with the magnification on the front. I then get full resolution with that stated front end magnification.
==
I happen to have more than one rifle, so I can have 2 or so rifles set up for night only ... and still have 5 others set up for day/night or day only.
==
The only use case where thermal clipons have been useful for me is long distance target shooting on heated steel out to 900yds. There, the high end military thermal clipons that can support 10x or more magnification are useful.
Cow at 10x at 375yds (the silver strings are the guy wires to my wind turbine)
==
10x at 500yds heated steel (12x24 inch)
==
UTC thermal clipon in front of Burris xtr2 3-15x scr-mil on 6.5G(18) rifle.
==
But note, all the thermal clipons I know of that support 10x plus on the day scope are over $10k in price. So, if you really want to shoot long distance at night with thermal, it can be done, but it is expensive. Alternatively, night vision clipons offer similar capability for a much lower cost.
==
So, if you have to get either a REAP or a SNIPE and you can't tell us what you would use them for ... then I would suggest the REAP ... it can be used as either a handheld spotter or a dedicated rifle scope ... and for 300yds or less night hunting ... I think you will find it easier to use as well.
.
Last edited:
The SNIPE and the REAP are "almost" the same ... the difference lies in the rear lens ...
For the REAP, this is a diopter lens, meaning it can adjust to a human's eyes if such eyes require adjustment (like mine do)
For the SNIPE, this is a collimating lens, meaning it attempts to automatically align between what it sees and what the lens behind it sees. This enables it to be a more successful "CLIPON" device.
==
I had a SNIPE earlier this year for several months, here it is on 5.56(18) in front of Burris xtr2 1.5-8x cq-mil scope.
==
And here is thru lens pic with the xtr2 on 8x looking at heated steel at 500yds ...
Yes, this image is a bit fuzzy. Part of that is the "camera" I am using (an old phone I use as my field camera and field Ballistic calculator, but no longer as a phone) ... the reticle was crisp in real life, not so much in the pic. But also, I am cranking the magnification of to 8x to see if it is usable. I found it usable for hitting the target and that was my purpose. I was not making hollywood movies. The documentation recommends no more than 4x of day scope magnification, but I like to push beyond the edges. For hitting the target, 8x works.
==
I ran the SNIPE side by side with another thermal clipon
https://i.imgur.com/Wwh7eg9h.jpg[/img
I wanted to keep both, but I could not come up with the cash and so I sent the SNIPE back.
But for a thermal clipon under $10k, I think the SNIPE is the only one I would buy. I've also had an Apollo and the Apollo cannot stand up to the SNIPE.
==
So the advantage of the SNIPE is that is it s clipon ... the disadvantage of the SNIPE is that it is a clipon.
What are the advantages of thermal clipons versus thermal scopes ??? ( The REAP IR is a thermal scope).
If you only have one rifle and you like your day optic, and you want to keep your day optic on your rifle, then a thermal clipon is useful. You can mount the thermal clipon and confirm any POI offset and make adjustments if needed.
Issues with thermal clipons:
01 - Mounting most clipons under $10k, requires close physical alignment between the day scope optical center line and the clipon optical center line. Being outside this close physical alignment will require various adjustments. Either to the clipon boresight itself or to the rings and mounting systems of the day scope and the clipon itself.
Proper mounting of most clipons under $10k can be a project or group of projects, depending on the number of firearms to which you wish to mount the clipon. If you bought all your rifles and rail systems and rings, etc for your rifles with a view towards the heights of the clipon mounts you would be using, then you are probably ok. Otherwise, you might need to change your rings and mounts and mounting systems.
02 - Using day scope magnification (or internal digital magnification) on thermal clipons, zooms in on the TV screen display at the back of the thermal. Each 2x of day scope (or digital) magnification costs 75% of the remaining resolution. A 640 x 480 device becomes a 320 x 240 with 2x on the day scope, etc.
==
A dedicated thermal scope has optical magnification on the front lens. The REAP is 2.5x ... that means at 2.5x you get all 640 resolution .... digital magnification can be added as well ... like 2x digital gives you 5x net magnification but costs you half of your resolution. You are now a 320 device.
==
For night hunting most of my shots are under 100yds, most of the rest are under 200yds ... and all the rest have been under 301 yds. So at those distances I prefer a dedicated thermal scope with the magnification on the front. I then get full resolution with that stated front end magnification.
==
I happen to have more than one rifle, so I can have 2 or so rifles set up for night only ... and still have 5 others set up for day/night or day only.
==
The only use case where thermal clipons have been useful for me is long distance target shooting on heated steel out to 900yds. There, the high end military thermal clipons that can support 10x or more magnification are useful.
Cow at 10x at 375yds (the silver strings are the guy wires to my wind turbine)
[img]https://i.imgur.com/LILMdoih.jpg
==
10x at 500yds heated steel (12x24 inch)
==
UTC thermal clipon in front of Burris xtr2 3-15x scr-mil on 6.5G(18) rifle.
==
But note, all the thermal clipons I know of that support 10x plus on the day scope are over $10k in price. So, if you really want to shoot long distance at night with thermal, it can be done, but it is expensive. Alternatively, night vision clipons offer similar capability for a much lower cost.
==
So, if you have to get either a REAP or a SNIPE and you can't tell us what you would use them for ... then I would suggest the REAP ... it can be used as either a handheld spotter or a dedicated rifle scope ... and for 300yds or less night hunting ... I think you will find it easier to use as well.
.
I hunt a lot of hogs and call a lot of dogs...North Texas area so a lot of farm country...100 to 350 yard shots all night long...with that being said I have or say had a Reap and before Christmas gave it to my brother...i since then ordered a MK3 60mm thinking I’d rather have more magnification...wrong...way to much at 4.5 I thought...especially in tight quarters and field of view inside of 250 is not near as good so I sent it back and need to pick another and couldn’t decide between another Reap...Snipe...or MK3 35mm
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Oh and I have a Simrad 203 FAB and just got my Badger 30mm Sim Cap and the Recon Unimount and was needing info on the right scope to use with it for tha money
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my 4.5-14/50 LR Leupold centered up perfect accept for the tube being a hair bit short allowing the front of tha bottom of tha Simrad clamp barely hitting the top of tha bell when trying to slide it on
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Great - thanks for the data !!!
==
Yes, I have a mk3 35mm myself ... and for what I've been using it for, it will "ruin" it when I upgrade it to 60mm ... and that is nightly "coop patrol" ... where most of my shots are under 100yds and even most of my sightings are under 500yds.
But as a long distance spotter, spotting for targets out to 900yds and even critters of interest out as far as I can see ... 2200yds or so ... the 60mm will help. So, upgrading from 35mm to 60mm is not just a lens change for me ... it is also a role change ... and the thermal to fill the old role will need to be back filled.
==
So what distances do you usually shoot at and what distances do you need to spot at ... for me, that determines FOV and magnification ...
I find the 35mm on 2x digital is good for spotting out to 1200yds ... I've PID hogs at 1200 with no issue on 2x (5x net). That helped us determine stalk route to intercept them ...
==
Here is 35mm on 4x (net 10x) looking at me out heating up steel targets ... the steel targets in the pic are 600, 700, 800, 900 ...
I am at the 700yd target with the buggy beside me ... as a spotter, I could see the targets, the trace, the misses and the hits ... but with twice as much optical magnification the image will have twice the resolution. That's what I'm going for with the 60mm ... long distance spotter role ... but for night hunting ... yes the 35mm is the best balance in my book.
I will probably backfill by getting a 19mm patrol ... because for coop defense the extra FOV will be useful.
==
If it was me, I'd go for the Mk3 35mm ... it is a little heavier and bulkier than the REAP ... but if you are going to use it on mostly on a rifle, I think it can take more punishment ... if you want to use it as a hand held spotter also, then the REAP makes sense, lighter and smaller. But I don't think you can go wrong .. which interface did you like best? The joystick or the turrets? Having used both I lean towards the turrets, but then I learned them first, so I am probably biased.
==
==
Yes, I have a mk3 35mm myself ... and for what I've been using it for, it will "ruin" it when I upgrade it to 60mm ... and that is nightly "coop patrol" ... where most of my shots are under 100yds and even most of my sightings are under 500yds.
But as a long distance spotter, spotting for targets out to 900yds and even critters of interest out as far as I can see ... 2200yds or so ... the 60mm will help. So, upgrading from 35mm to 60mm is not just a lens change for me ... it is also a role change ... and the thermal to fill the old role will need to be back filled.
==
So what distances do you usually shoot at and what distances do you need to spot at ... for me, that determines FOV and magnification ...
I find the 35mm on 2x digital is good for spotting out to 1200yds ... I've PID hogs at 1200 with no issue on 2x (5x net). That helped us determine stalk route to intercept them ...
==
Here is 35mm on 4x (net 10x) looking at me out heating up steel targets ... the steel targets in the pic are 600, 700, 800, 900 ...
I am at the 700yd target with the buggy beside me ... as a spotter, I could see the targets, the trace, the misses and the hits ... but with twice as much optical magnification the image will have twice the resolution. That's what I'm going for with the 60mm ... long distance spotter role ... but for night hunting ... yes the 35mm is the best balance in my book.
I will probably backfill by getting a 19mm patrol ... because for coop defense the extra FOV will be useful.
==
If it was me, I'd go for the Mk3 35mm ... it is a little heavier and bulkier than the REAP ... but if you are going to use it on mostly on a rifle, I think it can take more punishment ... if you want to use it as a hand held spotter also, then the REAP makes sense, lighter and smaller. But I don't think you can go wrong .. which interface did you like best? The joystick or the turrets? Having used both I lean towards the turrets, but then I learned them first, so I am probably biased
.==
The SNIPE and the REAP are "almost" the same ... the difference lies in the rear lens ...
For the REAP, this is a diopter lens, meaning it can adjust to a human's eyes if such eyes require adjustment (like mine do)
For the SNIPE, this is a collimating lens, meaning it attempts to automatically align between what it sees and what the lens behind it sees. This enables it to be a more successful "CLIPON" device.
==
I had a SNIPE earlier this year for several months, here it is on 5.56(18) in front of Burris xtr2 1.5-8x cq-mil scope.
==
And here is thru lens pic with the xtr2 on 8x looking at heated steel at 500yds ...
Yes, this image is a bit fuzzy. Part of that is the "camera" I am using (an old phone I use as my field camera and field Ballistic calculator, but no longer as a phone) ... the reticle was crisp in real life, not so much in the pic. But also, I am cranking the magnification of to 8x to see if it is usable. I found it usable for hitting the target and that was my purpose. I was not making hollywood movies. The documentation recommends no more than 4x of day scope magnification, but I like to push beyond the edges. For hitting the target, 8x works.
==
I ran the SNIPE side by side with another thermal clipon
https://i.imgur.com/Wwh7eg9h.jpg[/img
I wanted to keep both, but I could not come up with the cash and so I sent the SNIPE back.
But for a thermal clipon under $10k, I think the SNIPE is the only one I would buy. I've also had an Apollo and the Apollo cannot stand up to the SNIPE.
==
So the advantage of the SNIPE is that is it s clipon ... the disadvantage of the SNIPE is that it is a clipon.
What are the advantages of thermal clipons versus thermal scopes ??? ( The REAP IR is a thermal scope).
If you only have one rifle and you like your day optic, and you want to keep your day optic on your rifle, then a thermal clipon is useful. You can mount the thermal clipon and confirm any POI offset and make adjustments if needed.
Issues with thermal clipons:
01 - Mounting most clipons under $10k, requires close physical alignment between the day scope optical center line and the clipon optical center line. Being outside this close physical alignment will require various adjustments. Either to the clipon boresight itself or to the rings and mounting systems of the day scope and the clipon itself.
Proper mounting of most clipons under $10k can be a project or group of projects, depending on the number of firearms to which you wish to mount the clipon. If you bought all your rifles and rail systems and rings, etc for your rifles with a view towards the heights of the clipon mounts you would be using, then you are probably ok. Otherwise, you might need to change your rings and mounts and mounting systems.
02 - Using day scope magnification (or internal digital magnification) on thermal clipons, zooms in on the TV screen display at the back of the thermal. Each 2x of day scope (or digital) magnification costs 75% of the remaining resolution. A 640 x 480 device becomes a 320 x 240 with 2x on the day scope, etc.
==
A dedicated thermal scope has optical magnification on the front lens. The REAP is 2.5x ... that means at 2.5x you get all 640 resolution .... digital magnification can be added as well ... like 2x digital gives you 5x net magnification but costs you half of your resolution. You are now a 320 device.
==
For night hunting most of my shots are under 100yds, most of the rest are under 200yds ... and all the rest have been under 301 yds. So at those distances I prefer a dedicated thermal scope with the magnification on the front. I then get full resolution with that stated front end magnification.
==
I happen to have more than one rifle, so I can have 2 or so rifles set up for night only ... and still have 5 others set up for day/night or day only.
==
The only use case where thermal clipons have been useful for me is long distance target shooting on heated steel out to 900yds. There, the high end military thermal clipons that can support 10x or more magnification are useful.
Cow at 10x at 375yds (the silver strings are the guy wires to my wind turbine)
[img]https://i.imgur.com/LILMdoih.jpg
==
10x at 500yds heated steel (12x24 inch)
==
UTC thermal clipon in front of Burris xtr2 3-15x scr-mil on 6.5G(18) rifle.
==
But note, all the thermal clipons I know of that support 10x plus on the day scope are over $10k in price. So, if you really want to shoot long distance at night with thermal, it can be done, but it is expensive. Alternatively, night vision clipons offer similar capability for a much lower cost.
==
So, if you have to get either a REAP or a SNIPE and you can't tell us what you would use them for ... then I would suggest the REAP ... it can be used as either a handheld spotter or a dedicated rifle scope ... and for 300yds or less night hunting ... I think you will find it easier to use as well.
.
And on tha Reap...looks to me as though u could remove the Dloc that connects to pic rail and use with a helmet...or am I wrong
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The REAP is head mountable, though if it was me, I would only use that when stationary ...
I already run thermals on my head ... the 1x sort ... and those are the ones I want up there for when I'm moving ... when I'm stationary, I can usually look thru the rifle mounted thermal.
So running a 2.5x or 3x thermal on my head is not a huge use case for me.
I already run thermals on my head ... the 1x sort ... and those are the ones I want up there for when I'm moving ... when I'm stationary, I can usually look thru the rifle mounted thermal.
So running a 2.5x or 3x thermal on my head is not a huge use case for me.
Fwiw, somewhere in here is a previous discussion on this topic. I got to page 9 without finding it. Will be bumping a bunch of reap topics shortly. Will pay u to read them all..
But b4 I do. I owned a mk1. I owned a mk2. I've demoed a mk3. I own two reaps now. I demoed the snipe.
I think if you read every one of WigW's posts on these units, he should write a book, and SH should sell it.... WW is full of knowledge on these units.
His comments on snipe ir and reap ir are correct, say "rear lense" and what is their intended use. The quality of use is determined by those two different rear lenses. reap by my usage is better. and this is compared to using the above 10k units lwts, t70, and t75. I own lwts.
The reap will let you zero it for 4 guns or 4 different ammunitions, save the settings, and freely swap between. The snipe will not. Period.
To use snipe on different guns, u must follow the pita zeroing instructions for every gun you want to use it on, and do it every time you change guns. want to do a fast swap from 223 to 308 in the field, forget it. That's the lwts, t70, or t75. it IS NOT the snipe. My experience and I come real close to hating the snipe...
Personally I prefer the reap over the mk3, I don't really think the mk3 is a tougher unit like WW does, it does cost less.
Our hunting group runs 5 reaps, 1 mk2, two lwts, and a t70. the reap is our #1 Go to beat the f out of it use scope. they have been magnificent TO US... mk2 or mk3 next. our group does a 5 year average of a few over 500 hogs a year. did right at 800 one of those years. we LOVE reap...
We spot with mtm or flir m24 on helmet mounts and zoom in with a night optics vulkan, where WW uses the mk3. works for us, his system works for him.
Now I'm going to bump a bunch of stuff.
But b4 I do. I owned a mk1. I owned a mk2. I've demoed a mk3. I own two reaps now. I demoed the snipe.
I think if you read every one of WigW's posts on these units, he should write a book, and SH should sell it.... WW is full of knowledge on these units.
His comments on snipe ir and reap ir are correct, say "rear lense" and what is their intended use. The quality of use is determined by those two different rear lenses. reap by my usage is better. and this is compared to using the above 10k units lwts, t70, and t75. I own lwts.
The reap will let you zero it for 4 guns or 4 different ammunitions, save the settings, and freely swap between. The snipe will not. Period.
To use snipe on different guns, u must follow the pita zeroing instructions for every gun you want to use it on, and do it every time you change guns. want to do a fast swap from 223 to 308 in the field, forget it. That's the lwts, t70, or t75. it IS NOT the snipe. My experience and I come real close to hating the snipe...
Personally I prefer the reap over the mk3, I don't really think the mk3 is a tougher unit like WW does, it does cost less.
Our hunting group runs 5 reaps, 1 mk2, two lwts, and a t70. the reap is our #1 Go to beat the f out of it use scope. they have been magnificent TO US... mk2 or mk3 next. our group does a 5 year average of a few over 500 hogs a year. did right at 800 one of those years. we LOVE reap...
We spot with mtm or flir m24 on helmet mounts and zoom in with a night optics vulkan, where WW uses the mk3. works for us, his system works for him.
Now I'm going to bump a bunch of stuff.
As to the Mk3 being more "robust" ... some of that is "heresay" ... the only 2 peices of data I could offer are:
01 - The Mk3 has a 2 latch larue mount, which on a phone call IRD staff suggested to me this was an indicator of support for more recoil ... though obviously that isn't written down to show the public .. ."recoil ratings" in general are not something IRD/TEO likes to publish ... they are not alone in that ... and reason is it takes more testing than they have the resources for ... not all "308WIN" are the same ... not all "338LM" are the same etc. My .300WM(24) has less FELT recoil than my 6.5G(18) ... etc.
02 - The Mk3 has a "sac lens" in front of the main lens (this has been stated on the IRD/TEO web site for a while) ... and this is offered as a plus in that damage to the main lens is thus less likely.
==
And yes, I forgot the Mk3 does (usually) cost less thanks j-huskey!
01 - The Mk3 has a 2 latch larue mount, which on a phone call IRD staff suggested to me this was an indicator of support for more recoil ... though obviously that isn't written down to show the public .. ."recoil ratings" in general are not something IRD/TEO likes to publish ... they are not alone in that ... and reason is it takes more testing than they have the resources for ... not all "308WIN" are the same ... not all "338LM" are the same etc. My .300WM(24) has less FELT recoil than my 6.5G(18) ... etc.
02 - The Mk3 has a "sac lens" in front of the main lens (this has been stated on the IRD/TEO web site for a while) ... and this is offered as a plus in that damage to the main lens is thus less likely.
==
And yes, I forgot the Mk3 does (usually) cost less thanks j-huskey!
As to the Mk3 being more "robust" ... some of that is "heresay" ... the only 2 peices of data I could offer are:
01 - The Mk3 has a 2 latch larue mount, which on a phone call IRD staff suggested to me this was an indicator of support for more recoil ... though obviously that isn't written down to show the public .. ."recoil ratings" in general are not something IRD/TEO likes to publish ... they are not alone in that ... and reason is it takes more testing than they have the resources for ... not all "308WIN" are the same ... not all "338LM" are the same etc. My .300WM(24) has less FELT recoil than my 6.5G(18) ... etc.
02 - The Mk3 has a "sac lens" in front of the main lens (this has been stated on the IRD/TEO web site for a while) ... and this is offered as a plus in that damage to the main lens is thus less likely.
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And yes, I forgot the Mk3 does (usually) cost less thanks j-huskey!
In my personal dealings with larue, on their scope mounts, using the same weight scope, they put a two foot/attach mount on their standard scope mounts for lesser calibers and a three foot/attach mount on their 50 scope mount and this is specifically a recoil issue, the heavier recoil needs more strength. I owned and used both 2 and 3 footers. I saw the need.
Once upon a time I had a Leopold scope on my 375ct, in a single pair of rings. No problem.... I put a significantly heavier nightforce on it, and the scope moved in the rimgs under recoil. A double set of rings fixed that problem. The 338xtreme wore 5 (five) scope rings until changed to a more efficient brake. it was all about weight and recoil.
IR Def.... the mk3 60mm is definitely heavier than reap, and two attach points will give considerably more structural strength under recoil. And similarly with the smaller mk3 which weighs more than reap. There is a structural component of the mk3 where the weight rides higher and forward given the profile shape and gives a higher recoil factor due to this, compared to the lower lighter reap profile.
I personally believe this is why mk3 has two feet instead of one, for structural integrity, but I am as you know, a somewhat uneducated redneck country boy (who in his quest to decimate the hog population has tried the 50, 375, 338x, 338l, and other lesser calibers in said quest) and the above is my best guess.. :- )
You sir, are the true scholar and gentleman (and I very sincerely mean that !). Your postings clearly impart most valuable knowledge and we would be much diminished without all your contributions. Thank you much.
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Great - thanks for the data !!!
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Yes, I have a mk3 35mm myself ... and for what I've been using it for, it will "ruin" it when I upgrade it to 60mm ... and that is nightly "coop patrol" ... where most of my shots are under 100yds and even most of my sightings are under 500yds.
But as a long distance spotter, spotting for targets out to 900yds and even critters of interest out as far as I can see ... 2200yds or so ... the 60mm will help. So, upgrading from 35mm to 60mm is not just a lens change for me ... it is also a role change ... and the thermal to fill the old role will need to be back filled.
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So what distances do you usually shoot at and what distances do you need to spot at ... for me, that determines FOV and magnification ...
I find the 35mm on 2x digital is good for spotting out to 1200yds ... I've PID hogs at 1200 with no issue on 2x (5x net). That helped us determine stalk route to intercept them ...
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Here is 35mm on 4x (net 10x) looking at me out heating up steel targets ... the steel targets in the pic are 600, 700, 800, 900 ...
I am at the 700yd target with the buggy beside me ... as a spotter, I could see the targets, the trace, the misses and the hits ... but with twice as much optical magnification the image will have twice the resolution. That's what I'm going for with the 60mm ... long distance spotter role ... but for night hunting ... yes the 35mm is the best balance in my book.
I will probably backfill by getting a 19mm patrol ... because for coop defense the extra FOV will be useful.
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If it was me, I'd go for the Mk3 35mm ... it is a little heavier and bulkier than the REAP ... but if you are going to use it on mostly on a rifle, I think it can take more punishment ... if you want to use it as a hand held spotter also, then the REAP makes sense, lighter and smaller. But I don't think you can go wrong .. which interface did you like best? The joystick or the turrets? Having used both I lean towards the turrets, but then I learned them first, so I am probably biased
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Well I liked the turrets but I didn’t like the match ups as well, meaning top and right turret were not well matched...like polarity and brightness should have been paired together...Zoom and contrast...tha joystick was good as well, as long as u didn’t get to excited haha lol, the pairing of the options were better for me rather than turret selection on the MK
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I would summarize those words as "I like the joystick housing!" ... and hecque that is a good enough reason in my book for u to get a REAP ... smaller, lighter and the joystick interface you like all for a mere $500 or so difference in price (I didn't look) ...
Oh and can the Reap be helmet mounted with the Bottom DLoc system removed if on wanted to...Wilcox attachments...reason I’m asking is for driving our dirt roads to spot and shooting with my Simrad KN203
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Oh and can the Reap be helmet mounted with the Bottom DLoc system removed if on wanted to...Wilcox attachments...reason I’m asking is for driving our dirt roads to spot and shooting with my Simrad KN203
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reap and ir patrol have the wilcox dovetail on top of it. Both can be headmounted. just kinda big and a little heavy compared to mtm and flir. and not being 1x like mtm and flir, makes it a little harder to drive with the reduced field of view and more x..
and driving with thermal is harder bc of lack of perceived depth of field.
I drive with regular nv pvs14 while others spot with the headmounted mtm, flir, and other thermals on the weapon.
****There is a way to head mount the ir thermal removing the dlock. I don't know how to do it. Maybe Vic from tnvc can do a pictorial and show us. Maybe WW.
Wilcox does make a flir m24 mount, dovetail to wilcox helmet arm, with a "arm" going out sideways with a reverse dovetail mount on it to position the flir or patrol or reap in front of the eye, but it's real expensive and I've only seen one.
Never used it on the reap or patrol, only the flir m24 which is heavier and bulkier than the mtm.
I don't have enough experience to give advice on headmounting the ir defense units.
I can talk to you a lot on driving with a single pvs14, dual pvs14, pvs7/7a, pvs15, or anvis9.
I can't drive worth a shit with a thermal head mounted. im kind of dangerous trying to drive with a head mounted thermal. Riding, spotting with a mtm or flir m24 makes me drunk as hell, but I've done that. Takes a lot of getting used to, driver has to go "real slow".... I personally would rather drive with night vision and let someone else spot with the thermal.
Wigw could probably start another topic, practicing driving with nv/thermal and it would really informative. there are a lot of mounting options out there from wilcox and norotos worth a topic of their own.
I can't post pics worth a shit either, so I rarely do.
Hope this helps.
and driving with thermal is harder bc of lack of perceived depth of field.
I drive with regular nv pvs14 while others spot with the headmounted mtm, flir, and other thermals on the weapon.
****There is a way to head mount the ir thermal removing the dlock. I don't know how to do it. Maybe Vic from tnvc can do a pictorial and show us. Maybe WW.
Wilcox does make a flir m24 mount, dovetail to wilcox helmet arm, with a "arm" going out sideways with a reverse dovetail mount on it to position the flir or patrol or reap in front of the eye, but it's real expensive and I've only seen one.
Never used it on the reap or patrol, only the flir m24 which is heavier and bulkier than the mtm.
I don't have enough experience to give advice on headmounting the ir defense units.
I can talk to you a lot on driving with a single pvs14, dual pvs14, pvs7/7a, pvs15, or anvis9.
I can't drive worth a shit with a thermal head mounted. im kind of dangerous trying to drive with a head mounted thermal. Riding, spotting with a mtm or flir m24 makes me drunk as hell, but I've done that. Takes a lot of getting used to, driver has to go "real slow".... I personally would rather drive with night vision and let someone else spot with the thermal.
Wigw could probably start another topic, practicing driving with nv/thermal and it would really informative. there are a lot of mounting options out there from wilcox and norotos worth a topic of their own.
I can't post pics worth a shit either, so I rarely do.
Hope this helps.
Yes, you can helmet mount REAP ... I would only do that when stationary, not when I was driving. I roll on 4-wheeler with 1x thermals on head (and 14 also ... both side by side ... both 1x).
But what you cannot do is see through regular glass with thermal. So driving with thermal only recommended by me if
(a) Thermal is 1x
(b) No glass in vehicle obscuring LOS.
re: husky's post
I also feel wigwam is an amazing source of information, incredibly helpful, and deserves, at the very least, a huge thanks from the folks he has helped educate. he is a guy who is out there everyday, using his own equipment , and training with it. what a great guy to have here on the forum, he really pays it forward. (of course, there are many other super knowledgable and helpful folks on here as well!
i just want to say , THANKS JOE!
I also feel wigwam is an amazing source of information, incredibly helpful, and deserves, at the very least, a huge thanks from the folks he has helped educate. he is a guy who is out there everyday, using his own equipment , and training with it. what a great guy to have here on the forum, he really pays it forward. (of course, there are many other super knowledgable and helpful folks on here as well!
i just want to say , THANKS JOE!
