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Range Report Factory Ballistic Coefficient

CRT2

LTC (ret)
Full Member
Minuteman
  • Jul 7, 2013
    951
    737
    Punta Gorda, FL
    Hornady 300 Win Mag, 200 grain ELD-X - BC listed on boxes is G1 of .626 and G7 of .315. The same information was listed on their web site. Now the web site lists G1 of .597 and G7 of .301. Muzzle velocity figure changed from 2860 fps to 2850 fps. Asked Hornady to explain and they sent me these links as an explanation.

    https://www.hornady.com/support/faq...bc-at-lower-velocities-that-we-all-know-about

    https://www.hornady.com/support/ballistic-coefficient

    Still do not understand the "why" of the change. According to the Ballistic Coefficient article (my reading of it) the BC should have increased, not decreased. Sent a follow up request for information and I'm waiting for a response. In the interim thought I would ask for clarification from my learned colleagues.
     
    There answer is pretty clear, the way we have been doing business in regards to BCs is not as accurate as it could be, and Doppler Radar is highlighting this fact.

    No, it would not. The drop in ballistic coefficient (BC) associated with a bullet flying down range as it slows down is driven by two things. First, it is caused mostly by the drag coefficient (Cd) versus Mach number (drag model) of the standard not being at all like the actual drag coefficient versus Mach number of the projectile that is being evaluated. In the case of G1, at Mach numbers above 2.0, the slope of the Cd versus Mach is fairly close to modern boattail type projectiles and gives reasonable approximations. Below Mach 2.0, the G1 Cd vs. Mach becomes more and more dissimilar to a modern boattail type projectile, and this is why the BC numbers drop. The problem is not as bad with the G7 drag model. Unless the projectile being evaluated matches the shape and Cd vs. Mach of the standard projectile being used, errors are going to occur. The phenomenon we were seeing was happening immediately and was happening rapidly. It was totally inconsistent with the known problems with using BC.

    Secondly, another problem arises when testing is done to determine multiple BC values. Testers usually take a standard twist rate for a given caliber and download to shoot at lower velocities. This results in abnormally slow spin rates on the projectile being tested for the velocity it is traveling, which changes the gyroscopic stability, muzzle tip off, body shank wear and limit cycle yaw, further muddying the whole BC issue. The spin of a projectile typically drops off at a dramatically slower rate than its velocity, causing an increase in gyroscopic stability (Sg). For example, using the PRODAS 6 degree of freedom (6 DOF) trajectory analysis on the 6.5 mm 140 ELD™ Match projectile, discussed below, fired from a 1:8” twist barrel at 2,780 feet per second (fps), has a spin rate of 26,272 radians per second (rad/sec) at the muzzle. At 800 yards, the projectile still has a spin rate of 22,145 rad/sec, nearly 85% of the muzzle value. Yet the retained velocity is only 1,825 fps, 65% of the muzzle value. If the same bullet were fired from the same twist barrel at 1,825 fps, the spin rate would be 17,214 rad/sec, 22% less than it should be at that velocity. This also makes the stability of the bullet 22% less than it should be at that point in its trajectory.

    We never used G1 from the beginning because of its gross differences in drag characteristics to the aerodynamically efficient projectiles we were testing. This problem with BCs is why you will see us discussing projectile performance from now on in terms of the drag coefficient. It is the radar-generated exact total drag for the projectile being evaluated.

    What they are telling you is, bullet testers will shoot a sub load a short range, (most of these guys are testing at 300yards) and that reduces the spin rate which changes the entire dynamic of the bullet. But they take this number and use it in conjunction with a full speed test using the same equipment (twist rate) . What they need to do is either shoot it at distance or increase the spin rate to match the correct value.

    I would say you need to true your BC for your rifle using the entire range you have access too. Or use Hornady 4DOF if you are using Hornady bullets. They are tested via Doppler out to distance. When I shot their Doppler on their range we tested my rifles out too 2000+ yards and measured the value that way. Gave us spot on data.

    The 1 Number BC Average is really the issue, we, (they) are trying to give you a single number average versus what Sierra does banding the BCs to give you 3 different values to match the slow down in speed. That is a better way of doing business. However, in the game of 1number averages you try to match that average as best you can.

    With G1 the velocity is much more important, hence why I recommend truing the BC to your rifle because velocity pays a very important part. With G7, it's still velocity dependent but not nearly as much. That single value should carry out further as a solid number. If you are not shooting into the Transonic range it should not matter either way. (First paragraph) it all starts to deviate a bit past that distance.

    Hornady is being very technical while spelling it out in laymans terms.
     
    Using the Hornady Standard and 4DOF calculators and using BC of .626 and .597 for the standard calculator and velocity of 2850 fps the MOA come ups are:

    STD STD
    .626, .597, 4DOF,

    500 yds - 8.2, 8.4, 8.41

    1000 yds - 26.4, 27.2, 28.05

    1500 yds - 55.5, 57.9, 63.86

    2000 yds - 100.07, 106.2, 124.27

    If the 4DOF is more accurate then the BC is of little use over 500 yards. And it appears Hornady changed the BC value to agree with 4DOF at shorter range.
     
    I think they designed it to work to 800 yards, it might have been 700, I can't quite remember, but yes the BC numbers are balanced to fit a shorter ranges.

    The longer range stuff has too many variables and if you are shooting beyond 1000 yards, you need to true the BC to your system anyway, I would not be going with the default numbers.

    This is meant as a starting point and not a definition of fact for every rifle/shooter/ammo combination out there. It's an average based on the test conditions designed to be metered out to a certain point to get you started.

    Companies post drop charts too, you would not take those numbers as fact unless your system matched their 100%
     
    Lowlight, I've heard you talking about truing your BC on the podcast instead of truing the muzzle velocity first. How do you true your ballistic coefficient?

    Once you nail down your velocity and you can confirm good elevation at close ranges (say 200-400), pick a spot around say 800-1000 (as far as you have to shoot without being in the transonic zone) to shoot. Adjust your BC until your app/solver matches your actual dope on the gun needed to make centered hits. A simple trued G7 works great for faster 6 & 6.5 cartridges and matches the 4dof / custom drag models at normal PRS distances really well.
     
    Once you nail down your velocity and you can confirm good elevation at close ranges (say 200-400), pick a spot around say 800-1000 (as far as you have to shoot without being in the transonic zone) to shoot. Adjust your BC until your app/solver matches your actual dope on the gun needed to make centered hits. A simple trued G7 works great for faster 6 & 6.5 cartridges and matches the 4dof / custom drag models at normal PRS distances really well.

    I was thinking that is how I was going to have to do it since none of the ballistic calculators are able to true the BC like they do velocity. I wanted to make sure there wasn’t an easier way of doing it. Thanks for the response!