Drugs only hurt the user

[fdkay]

Freedom of choice, freedom to do what you wish to your own body....
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/03/2...ounger-than-10-for-drugs-cash-police-say.html

 

[Maggot]

Id say turn her into dogfood, but you'd likely make the dogs sick, but

c'mon FD, people have been doing evil stuff since long before drugs were an issue. They've done it for money, for power, for religion. Look at the AlQuaida beasts. They sell children for money to fund their sickness. No one is saying meth or coke is good. At least Im not. But the way youre putting it is like saying 'Guns kill people". They dont. Stupid hurts people. Evil hurts people. Look a Jared, the poster bouy for Subway. He did evil shit to children but to my knowledge no drugs were involved, just his own sick self.

People are going to do this shit, legal or not. They have since the first person ate a mushroom off a pile of cow shit, or what ever. Your not going to change human nature. If they were legally available to people it would at least cut out the criminal element, take away the stigma, and make it easier for them to get hslp.

Its a proven fact that prohibition doesnt work.

Be careful, stay safe.

.

 

[...]

since the 2A does not apply to felons.......does that mean we can also do the same thing with the 8th?

like, this is a perfect example of someone who should be skinned alive.

 

[ArmyJerry]

That is the slippery slope, we were all okay when they took rights from felons after they were rehabilitated. Now they will make us all criminals.

 

[fdkay]

Id say turn her into dogfood, but you'd likely make the dogs sick, but

c'mon FD, people have been doing evil stuff since long before drugs were an issue. They've done it for money, for power, for religion. Look at the AlQuaida beasts. They sell children for money to fund their sickness. No one is saying meth or coke is good. At least Im not. But the way youre putting it is like saying 'Guns kill people". They dont. Stupid hurts people. Evil hurts people. Look a Jared, the poster bouy for Subway. He did evil shit to children but to my knowledge no drugs were involved, just his own sick self.

People are going to do this shit, legal or not. They have since the first person ate a mushroom off a pile of cow shit, or what ever. Your not going to change human nature. If they were legally available to people it would at least cut out the criminal element, take away the stigma, and make it easier for them to get hslp.

Its a proven fact that prohibition doesnt work.

Be careful, stay safe.

.

While I agree that prohibition doesn't work, you seem to think that legalizing or at least decriminalizing would help.
It won't. Just look at the MS13 influx into Colorado.
You don't see a lot of stories like this coming out of Singapore or Malaysia, because they take care of the dopers they catch (and yes, drugs are STILL available there).
And you are also correct, people are going to do it, whether it is legal or not.
You are also seem to be under the mistaken belief that these folks want to get help, 99% of them don't want help, they want dope.

The fact of the matter is, innocents are hurt by the drug problem (and yes, they are hurt by other things).
I have never seen anyone that wanted to buy a gun so badly, that they pimped out their own children.
These idiots knowingly surrender themselves to dope. i'm not talking about your stoner, I really don't have an issue with folks getting stoned. it is the junkies and meth monkeys that cost us billions every year, along with victimizing their children and the rest of the law abiding citizens.

 

[fdkay]

That is the slippery slope, we were all okay when they took rights from felons after they were rehabilitated. Now they will make us all criminals.

How many times are felons "rehabilitated"? 1 in every 5,000?
I don't know about other states, but in Texas your right to own firearms is restored after 5 years of completing your sentence and any supervision that might follow.
You can't go anywhere with it, but you can have it in your home.

 

[Maggot]

How many times are felons "rehabilitated"? 1 in every 5,000?
I don't know about other states, but in Texas your right to own firearms is restored after 5 years of completing your sentence and any supervision that might follow.
You can't go anywhere with it, but you can have it in your home.

I was not aware of that. I thought it was a federal thing...that once you have a felony conviction you had to receive a pardon from your state in order to have firearm rights restored?

Regarding you post above, no they dont pimp the children to buy a gun they just break into homes to steal them. I guess that, if not better, then less bad?

After thinking on it for a few moments, a question. If we agree that prohibition does not work, and we likely agree that "Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result is crazy" then what do we do? To my rational mind the only thing to do is end the crazy, end prohibition. With that at least you eliminate (some) of the criminal element. If someone breaks the law for what ever reason, punish them for that. If they pimp thier childern put them where they will neve see daylight free again.

BTW, when I pm'd you I noticed your from Ingleside. Nice area, I spent several years in Corpus. Not a lot of recreation unless you like to fish.

 

[fdkay]

I was not aware of that. I thought it was a federal thing...that once you have a felony conviction you had to receive a pardon from your state in order to have firearm rights restored?

Regarding you post above, no they dont pimp the children to buy a gun they just break into homes to steal them. I guess that, if not better, then less bad?

After thinking on it for a few moments, a question. If we agree that prohibition does not work, and we likely agree that "Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result is crazy" then what do we do? To my rational mind the only thing to do is end the crazy, end prohibition. With that at least you eliminate (some) of the criminal element. If someone breaks the law for what ever reason, punish them for that. If they pimp thier childern put them where they will neve see daylight free again.

BTW, when I pm'd you I noticed your from Ingleside. Nice area, I spent several years in Corpus. Not a lot of recreation unless you like to fish.

And that is a fact. it is a tough nut to crack, isn't it?
I suppose you could invoke "enhancements" on criminal offenses if drugs are involved, much like they do with firearms. But, I don't think that would be a good answer.
Sadly, I don't think there IS a good answer.
America, for some reason, has become a cesspool of drug fueled debauchery. I guess that in a nation of 360 million, with the freedoms we enjoy, that it is inevitable. I think part of the problem is the "entitlements" that we hand out.
Why work and contribute to society, when you can sit at home, collect welfare, food stamps, live in subsidized housing and smoke meth?
It is really odd what dopers will do. it is beyond any reasonable thought.
Have you heard of krokodil?
It was primarily a Russian thing, but did find its way to Illinois and a few other places.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2682111/pics-addicts-scaly-wounds-crocodile-injecting-drug-krokodil/

Sadly, taxpayers have to pay for these folks and their choice of drug use.

 

[Nik H]

This doesn't even merit more than a passing glance. Throw the cunt in a chipper and be done with it

 

[HTX_17]

I don't usually weigh in on the Bear Pit but the prohibition approach to dealing with any substance has always struck a nerve with me. Let me first be very blunt and let you know that what the woman in the article did is abhorrent and should face the highest penalties the state can levy against. I neither condone nor agree with serious criminals copping out and saying "the disease made me do it". Serious criminals deserve serious legal punishment. Period.

However, that is only part of the problem. We as a country LOVE drugs, if we didn't there would be no drug epidemic. It is simple supply and demand. Most "prohibition" supporters usually cite certain Asian countries as a model for the approach America should take, however I know that focusing on the end user as a means to end the drug crisis is foolish at best. Hell, look at where 30 years of the "war on drugs" has gotten us, no where.

Ultimately I think it comes down to strictly controlling the manufacture of these substances along with distribution by legal means which would have the greatest impact on eliminating the drug cartels. But that's only part of the problem.

The second has to do with general populace who are now addicted. There are models we can follow, I'll use Spain as the prime example-through drug courts which allows those who are either convicted of a drug offense OR have committed a minor offense in order to get treatment w/out serving major time. New England has already taken these cues and has begun instituting the drug court model with great success.

Unfortunately, this problem is far more complicated than just providing a singular approach.

My $.02.

 

[Maggot]

I don't usually weigh in on the Bear Pit but the prohibition approach to dealing with any substance has always struck a nerve with me. Let me first be very blunt and let you know that what the woman in the article did is abhorrent and should face the highest penalties the state can levy against. I neither condone nor agree with serious criminals copping out and saying "the disease made me do it". Serious criminals deserve serious legal punishment. Period.

However, that is only part of the problem. We as a country LOVE drugs, if we didn't there would be no drug epidemic. It is simple supply and demand. Most "prohibition" supporters usually cite certain Asian countries as a model for the approach America should take, however I know that focusing on the end user as a means to end the drug crisis is foolish at best. Hell, look at where 30 years of the "war on drugs" has gotten us, no where.

Ultimately I think it comes down to strictly controlling the manufacture of these substances along with distribution by legal means which would have the greatest impact on eliminating the drug cartels. But that's only part of the problem.

The second has to do with general populace who are now addicted. There are models we can follow, I'll use Spain as the prime example-through drug courts which allows those who are either convicted of a drug offense OR have committed a minor offense in order to get treatment w/out serving major time. New England has already taken these cues and has begun instituting the drug court model with great success.

Unfortunately, this problem is far more complicated than just providing a singular approach.

My $.02.

I beleve Portugal has done about the same and the incidence of crime and addiction has dropped. From what Ive read, and its early to make a call, both crime and DUI have dropped in Colorado. MS13...lock the bastards up. For good.

 

[Mike Casselton]

I wonder if all of the "johns"
will be charged and prosecuted?
I doubt it. They are probably CIs or have some other type of protection that makes them untouchables. Sick, fucking sick motherfuckers.

 

[Jefe's Dope]

It won't. Just look at the MS13 influx into Colorado.
You don't see a lot of stories like this coming out of Singapore or Malaysia, because they take care of the dopers they catch (and yes, drugs are STILL available there).

As a resident of Colorado, can you point me in the direction of these stories you're talking about? Because the story you've linked here happened in Wisconsin. Where, to the best of my knowledge, all drugs are still illegal.

 

[fdkay]

There was this discussion:
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/any-advice-for-me-on-dealing-with-gang-bangers.6875049/

look here:
https://www.denverpost.com/2016/03/...rrested-in-national-sting-project-shadowfire/

 

[Jefe's Dope]

There was this discussion:
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/any-advice-for-me-on-dealing-with-gang-bangers.6875049/

look here:
https://www.denverpost.com/2016/03/...rrested-in-national-sting-project-shadowfire/

One gang related article and one person's anecdotal experience does make for a MS 13 gang problem in Colorado due to what I can only assume you were referring to Marijuana legalization.

I can tell you from first hand experience, there's very little 'gang problems' in Colorado. Most of which are out of Pueblo. But they've had gang and drug problems loooong before legalization. And much more to do with poverty and limited opportunities outside of agriculture.

Gang issues were much more prevalent here in the 90s than they are today.

The biggest gangster and drug dealer in the State is the State. They're kicking in doors to eliminate the competition. Changed the amendment in the State Constitution with out the citizen's approval to limit what an individual can produce from what was an already low amount. They love scapegoating the "illegal drug grows" for their own product crossing state lines and are so addicted to the money that Hicenlooper has done an about face on his own stance on legalization.

 

[quietmike]

While I agree that prohibition doesn't work, you seem to think that legalizing or at least decriminalizing would help.
It won't. Just look at the MS13 influx into Colorado.

Legalizing booze helped tremendously with the crime associated with prohibition. I can't remember the last time I heard about a gangland murder over running bootleg liquor.
The gangs, like MS13, exist to run illegal businesses. If drugs were legal, and people could buy their meth or coke at CVS, the gangs would lose tons of revenue.
The added bonus would be drugs would be cheaper and hardcore addicts would OD sooner.

 

[fdkay]

One gang related article and one person's anecdotal experience does make for a MS 13 gang problem in Colorado due to what I can only assume you were referring to Marijuana legalization.

I can tell you from first hand experience, there's very little 'gang problems' in Colorado. Most of which are out of Pueblo. But they've had gang and drug problems loooong before legalization. And much more to do with poverty and limited opportunities outside of agriculture.

Gang issues were much more prevalent here in the 90s than they are today.

The biggest gangster and drug dealer in the State is the State. They're kicking in doors to eliminate the competition. Changed the amendment in the State Constitution with out the citizen's approval to limit what an individual can produce from what was an already low amount. They love scapegoating the "illegal drug grows" for their own product crossing state lines and are so addicted to the money that Hicenlooper has done an about face on his own stance on legalization.

Whatever.
If you would do a search for MS 13 Colorado, you would find more than one story.

 

[fdkay]

Legalizing booze helped tremendously with the crime associated with prohibition. I can't remember the last time I heard about a gangland murder over running bootleg liquor.
The gangs, like MS13, exist to run illegal businesses. If drugs were legal, and people could buy their meth or coke at CVS, the gangs would lose tons of revenue.
The added bonus would be drugs would be cheaper and hardcore addicts would OD sooner.

Which is why no one sells prescription drugs on the street. (newsflash, prescription drugs are a problem on the streets and much of it is trafficked by gangs)
Hey, if you legalize assault, rape and murder, violent crime would go way down too, since those things wouldn't be a crime.

 

[Jefe's Dope]

Whatever.
If you would do a search for MS 13 Colorado, you would find more than one story.

I did.
https://www.google.com/search?sourc...i131i46k1j46i131k1j0i22i10i30k1.0.2iHVyCLFYmk

You're just wrong. Not sure why you need this to be a problem so badly, but it just isn't so.

 

[Jefe's Dope]

Which is why no one sells prescription drugs on the street. (newsflash, prescription drugs are a problem on the streets and much of it is trafficked by gangs)
Hey, if you legalize assault, rape and murder, violent crime would go way down too, since those things wouldn't be a crime.

More of a problem in Colorado than MS 13

https://www.bizjournals.com/denver/...r-based-dea-opioid-probe-of-mckesson-was.html

"After years of investigation of McKesson Corp., led by a Denver-based Drug Enforcement Administration team, over the pharmaceutical giant's distribution of powerful opioid drugs in Colorado and elsewhere, DEA agents say they thought they had gathered enough evidence to warrant criminal charges and fines of more than $1 billion."

But somehow they struck a deal.

 

[Maggot]

Which is why no one sells prescription drugs on the street. (newsflash, prescription drugs are a problem on the streets and much of it is trafficked by gangs)
Hey, if you legalize assault, rape and murder, violent crime would go way down too, since those things wouldn't be a crime.

Assault, rape,murder are fundamentally different than drugs. Those three are something that is perpetrated AGAINST SOMEBODY ELSE (GENERALLY) AGAINST THEIR WILL. Drugs are something that an individual chooses for him'her/self. Yes, the dealer sells it, but no one, except in rare cases, forces the individual to take them. Its a personal choice. Apples and oranges. And it is true that in Spain, Portugal, and I beleve Columbia, legalizing, or at least de criminalizing them has led to a lower crime rate, less addiction, and less alcohol problem. The billions? of dollars spent on prosecuting and imprisioning people. I may not be the sarpest blade in the drawer but for sake of arguement lets assume that I, and several others here, are correct, that legalizing/decriminalizing them would both lower crime and save money that could well be spent on education, healthcare, etc, it seems a win/win.
NO?

I cant really address MS13 other than to say they should be eliminated with extreme predjudice. If however, you take away (one of) their sources of revenue it will hurt them. The biggest problem Ive heard of with gangs is in Northern California where they go into the national forests and wreck them with miles ot hose, plastic, and garbage.

 

[quietmike]

Which is why no one sells prescription drugs on the street. (newsflash, prescription drugs are a problem on the streets and much of it is trafficked by gangs)
Hey, if you legalize assault, rape and murder, violent crime would go way down too, since those things wouldn't be a crime.

Prescription drugs are illegal without the proper licensing. How many aspirins are sold by the corner dealer?

 

[quietmike]

Drugs will ruin your life, so if you're caught with them, you'll be jailed, where you could be beaten/raped, separated from your family for years, and when you get out, you'll have a criminal record that will prevent you from employment in most all desirable jobs.

It's for your own good.

 

[Rthur]

Most if not all of the drugs causing problems were at one time unregulated/legal.
Through time and experience they have proven to be detrimental to society or at least a portion.
The answers are much harder than society will allow for personal responsibility.
I'm not of the mind to supporting any more of my "fellow citizens".
Where there is money/illicit money to be made the usual players will attend.

R

 

[powdahound76]

Jefe’s dope
Not sure where you are in CO or what you do for work.
From my perspective:
Gangs are a pretty sizeable problem in the Denver metro. I have friends who work gang task forces with mult agencies who have told me how many they are watching and whats up. Who do you think is responsible for all the sex trafficking of minors?
A friend from work was shot when trying to stop a couple gangbangers from stealing his neighbors truck.
I have seen more of them in the ER getting med clearance for jail than I can remember and many admitted for gang related violence. Taken care of more than a couple girls rescued out of trafficking.
Most of it doesnt make the news so they dont ruin our pristine image of restricted magazines, legal grass, and perfect peaceful leftist utopia.

I do believe gangs are here, probably even MS13, though there isnt a lot of evidence of it on the news. Yet.....

 

[fdkay]

Drugs will ruin your life, so if you're caught with them, you'll be jailed, where you could be beaten/raped, separated from your family for years, and when you get out, you'll have a criminal record that will prevent you from employment in most all desirable jobs.

It's for your own good.

you really have no clue how the system works

 

[fdkay]

Assault, rape,murder are fundamentally different than drugs. Those three are something that is perpetrated AGAINST SOMEBODY ELSE (GENERALLY) AGAINST THEIR WILL. Drugs are something that an individual chooses for him'her/self. Yes, the dealer sells it, but no one, except in rare cases, forces the individual to take them. Its a personal choice. Apples and oranges. And it is true that in Spain, Portugal, and I beleve Columbia, legalizing, or at least de criminalizing them has led to a lower crime rate, less addiction, and less alcohol problem. The billions? of dollars spent on prosecuting and imprisioning people. I may not be the sarpest blade in the drawer but for sake of arguement lets assume that I, and several others here, are correct, that legalizing/decriminalizing them would both lower crime and save money that could well be spent on education, healthcare, etc, it seems a win/win.
NO?

I cant really address MS13 other than to say they should be eliminated with extreme predjudice. If however, you take away (one of) their sources of revenue it will hurt them. The biggest problem Ive heard of with gangs is in Northern California where they go into the national forests and wreck them with miles ot hose, plastic, and garbage.

Maggot, the point I was making was in reference to the whole idea of legalizing it reduces crime.
The point is this, if you make things legal, that were once illegal, it reduces crime because there are no more arrests, since they are not offenses. It does not change behavior, folks are still doing it.
My point in regards to prescription drugs (which you didn't address), is that fact that, while they are regulated, they are legal. They are still sold on the streets. The criminals frequently commit burglaries of pharmacies and even homes to get the drugs.
Colorado has had a great deal of trouble with burglaries of pot shops.
Drugs=Crime. It's just the way it is.
Anywho, I'm checking out of this thread. Had some good back and forth from different points of view, which is always a good thing.

 

[quietmike]

you really have no clue how the system works

I was a deputy sheriff for 15 years, why don't you explain it to me.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Slightly off topic, but here's my issue with legalizing softer drugs such as marijuana. Also, I'll point out that this is a generalization and doesn't apply to everyone, as different people respond to different drugs(legal and illegal) differently.

What is one of the biggest reasons most people don't commit murder? Its illegal. If it were legal, many more people would do it.

What is one of the biggest reason's a lot of people don't try marijuana, or at least don't continue it's use long term? Its illegal(mostly).

Marijuana is a gateway drug for SOME (not all) people. Many of these people either will not try or use marijuana long term because of the laws against it. Once you make it legal, this will take away some of that inhibition.

This can lead those people who are predisposed to becoming addicts into a rabbit hole that will end up with meth, crack, heroin, etc. They MAY have avoided this had they not felt more comfortable to use marijuana because it was legal.

My prediction is within the next 10 years or so, any areas that have legalized marijuana for recreational abuse will see exponential increases in the already epidemic proportion of the opiod crisis.

As far as it being different than rape and murder, on the surface, yes that is true. But addicts abuse children, their families, they fall asleep at the wheel and kill other drivers on the road, etc. On the surface, drug use is a victim-less crime, but when you look into the long term effects, there are absolutely victims.

If everyone could use marijuana recreationally and never go any further, my opinion would be different. I have known very productive people who used marijuana and never went any further. I have however, NEVER met a crack, meth, or heroine addict who just jumped right into one of those harder drugs.

I am probably a bit biased as I have been in LE for 17 years, and I have lost family members in this opiod crisis, but these are my observations.

 

[quietmike]

Slightly off topic, but here's my issue with legalizing softer drugs such as marijuana. Also, I'll point out that this is a generalization and doesn't apply to everyone, as different people respond to different drugs(legal and illegal) differently.

What is one of the biggest reasons most people don't commit murder? Its illegal. If it were legal, many more people would do it.

What is one of the biggest reason's a lot of people don't try marijuana, or at least don't continue it's use long term? Its illegal(mostly).

None of us ever tasted alcohol before our 18/21st birthday because it was illegal.

A thing being forbidden creates its own attraction for many.

 

[Dthomas3523]

When was the last time you drank and drove? Did you not do it because it's not right, or because you'll get hammered if you get caught? Again, this is for most people. People who do things because it's forbidden are in a very, very small percentage of the population.

Take the lanes off the highway, see how many people would drive on the right side. Put them back on, and magically, the vast majority of the population listen to the rules.

 

[quietmike]

When was the last time you drank and drove? Did you not do it because it's not right, or because you'll get hammered if you get caught? Again, this is for most people. People who do things because it's forbidden are in a very, very small percentage of the population.

Take the lanes off the highway, see how many people would drive on the right side. Put them back on, and magically, the vast majority of the population listen to the rules.

So you didn't drink anything as a teen because of laws.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Me personally, yes. I didn't drink until I was 21, and I didn't try any drugs until my 20's.

You're also comparing something that is only illegal under a certain age vs something that is illegal no matter what.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Drugs will ruin your life, so if you're caught with them, you'll be jailed, where you could be beaten/raped, separated from your family for years, and when you get out, you'll have a criminal record that will prevent you from employment in most all desirable jobs.

It's for your own good.

Not sure where you were a Sheriff's Deputy that people were convicted of felonies that will prohibit you from getting a desirable job......for simple possession of pretty much any drug.

Unless someone has enough to be charged with intent to distribute(and even then), you will easily be able to plead down to a simple misdemeanor and it will have little or no(most times) consequence in future job opportunities. Hell, you can even be a cop after being caught with drugs (given enough time to show you're not still doing it).

In the real world...........caught with drugs = slap on wrist of probably a simple fine. No ass rape required.

 

[quietmike]

Me personally, yes. I didn't drink until I was 21, and I didn't try any drugs until my 20's.

You're also comparing something that is only illegal under a certain age vs something that is illegal no matter what.

So you tried drugs even though they were illegal...