Testing at the Lapua Center in Mesa Arizona

[quickdraw]

Has anyone here gone to the Lapua Service Center in Mesa Arizona to test ammo lots with their rifle?

How was your experience there?

Did you find a superior lot for your rifle?

Has you effort of going there paid off for you with better results?

I'm looking at making a trip there in the near future and would like to hear real world results to help me make my decision. THX

 

[steve123]

Yes I went there.

It was a mostly good experience. Two negatives were, they didn't have a jig for my 1827F so a generic jig was used and their chrono was broke.

We did find what I was looking for in my price range which shot almost as good as one lot of Xact. I've been satisfied with the accuracy and consistency.

I will do it again when I run out of this ammo but I'm only 2.5 hours away.

 

[RAVAGE88]

I was there not long ago, a lot of advantages to it. Steve123 makes a highly valid point, so I'm making this fixture for guys wanting to send their Vudoo for testing.

MB

 

[D̷e̷v̷i̷l̷D̷o̷c̷A̷Z̷]

I have had 2 Rifles tested there and I can't say enough good things about these guys. It's much smaller than you would expect. 2 guys run the show and they even let me and my daughters tour the facility. It was really a neat experience. They give you a nice printout of all the lots of ammo tested in your rifle.

Buying the ammo was a little strange but worked out well. You buy the ammo on site but you call and pay a vendor over the phone. The cool thing is you can pick from a list and they know who has the best prices. I picked an out of state vendor so I didn't have to pay sales tax.

They didn't have a jig for my Sako Quad or Annie 1416, being the cool guys they are we made a deal, they would test my Rifles for free but they would also keep the rifles a few weeks to build a jig off them. I only live a few miles away so this was a no brainer. Like I said, they are cool guys.

 

[kriller134]

I have had 2 Rifles tested there and I can't say enough good things about these guys. It's much smaller than you would expect. 2 guys run the show and they even let me and my daughters tour the facility. It was really a neat experience. They give you a nice printout of all the lots of ammo tested in your rifle.

Buying the ammo was a little strange but worked out well. You buy the ammo on site but you call and pay a vendor over the phone. The cool thing is you can pick from a list and they know who has the best prices. I picked an out of state vendor so I didn't have to pay sales tax.

They didn't have a jig for my Sako Quad or Annie 1416, being the cool guys they are we made a deal, they would test my Rifles for free but they would also keep the rifles a few weeks to build a jig off them. I only live a few miles away so this was a no brainer. Like I said, they are cool guys.

Wait, so you paid an out of state vendor, but picked up on the spot?

 

[D̷e̷v̷i̷l̷D̷o̷c̷A̷Z̷]

Wait, so you paid an out of state vendor, but picked up on the spot?

Correct. They are a manufacturer facility. No storefront of any type. So they have you call a vendor and they "dropship" to you......amd you just happen to be standing there....so you take it then and there.

 

[Sieg]

I have a good friend that just moved to Paradise Valley...... this makes a trip to visit him a real win win. He's most likely getting a Vudoo in the near future depending on his health issues so the Lapua facility would be a great addition. @RAVAGE88 when do you think that fixture will be available?

 

[quickdraw]

I was there not long ago, a lot of advantages to it. Steve123 makes a highly valid point, so I'm making this fixture for guys wanting to send their Vudoo for testing.

MB

We'll probably be going down with 3 Vudoos and a Kidd. I'd definitely like to known when they have a proper jig for the V22.

 

[RAVAGE88]

I have a good friend that just moved to Paradise Valley...... this makes a trip to visit him a real win win. He's most likely getting a Vudoo in the near future depending on his health issues so the Lapua facility would be a great addition. @RAVAGE88 when do you think that fixture will be available?

Material is ordered, I expect to get it in the machine mid next week. I'll circle back to this thread to let everyone know when it ships to Mesa.

MB

 

[45cal4life]

I was there not long ago, a lot of advantages to it. Steve123 makes a highly valid point, so I'm making this fixture for guys wanting to send their Vudoo for testing.

MB

Damn...? Maybe it's me, but I find that impressive

 

[rick137]

Is anyone going to post the results or is part of the agreement is the results are confidential?

 

[RAVAGE88]

Damn...? Maybe it's me, but I find that impressive

Thanks 45Cal, I now have numerous guys asking me to turn it into a Vudoo Chassis.

MB

 

[quickdraw]

Is anyone going to post the results or is part of the agreement is the results are confidential?

We have 1 Vudoo with a Bartlien barrel and 2 with Ace Barrels. I'll definitely be interested in the results between the 3 of them and if there are any similarities in how the test results turn out between the 3. I don't know of any restrictions at this point but I'd be happy share the results. I'll personally be looking into Center X primarily as my everyday round but I may think about testing Midas Plus as well for ERL.

 

[D̷e̷v̷i̷l̷D̷o̷c̷A̷Z̷]

Is anyone going to post the results or is part of the agreement is the results are confidential?

Post the data of how my rifle tested? I can if that's what you are asking for.

 

[RAVAGE88]

Material has arrived, programming assembly is finished, should take long to get it programmed and set up the tools.

MB

 

[rick137]

Post the data of how my rifle tested? I can if that's what you are asking for.

Yes please.

 

[rick137]

Material has arrived, programming assembly is finished, should take long to get it programmed and set up the tools.

MB

It appears the clamp allows for lateral movement. I presume that means the test procedure is to shoot a certain number of shots then do a lateral shift?

 

[RAVAGE88]

It appears the clamp allows for lateral movement. I presume that means the test procedure is to shoot a certain number of shots then do a lateral shift?

Rick, the vise depicted in the assembly is a Kurt 688, I have the same vise in my CNC. The vise is in the programming assembly because, while programming, you tell the cam system what parts of the assembly are "game on" for the tool to make contact with. When I select the vise as the "fixture," the tool will avoid the vise. The transparent body is the material and is selected in CAM as the "stock" to be machined and has an associated Work Coordinate System.

When using such a vise for workholding, the intent is to eliminate any possibility the "stock" will move (in any axis) while being machined. The "clamp" being used at the Lapua facility is very similar to the Kurt vise and also eliminates any possibility of movement. The complete facade (at Lapua) is incredibly heavy and firmly mounted to the floor (it's actually an enormous block of cement that goes deeply through the floor and the "clamp" is mounted to the block of cement) so repeatability is the focus during testing/data collection.

Hope this helps.

MB

 

[D̷e̷v̷i̷l̷D̷o̷c̷A̷Z̷]

Yes please.

No problem. They use a laser photogate at 50m and 100m to capture the data so nothing but light interferes with the projectile. They test everything they have and then continue testing on the stuff that's shooting well. All batches are tracked by Serial Number of the ammo. I hope this helps a little.

Here you go:

 

[steve123]

Just commenting.

The various shooting teams around the country hogged up all the best lots of SK ammo. Pallets of them sitting in the ammo storage room waiting for shipment!

I was hoping to find some good shooting lesser priced practice ammo the day I went, nope, all spoken for!

 

[Quarter Horse]

Just commenting.

The various shooting teams around the country hogged up all the best lots of SK ammo. Pallets of them sitting in the ammo storage room waiting for shipment!

I was hoping to find some good shooting lesser priced practice ammo the day I went, nope, all spoken for!

I've wondered about this for years. It seems reasonable that if the manufacturers have testing facilities they would make sure that the best shooters would get the best product. I bet the Olympic Training Center gets plenty. They make sure they get the best representation.

 

[rick137]

DevilDocAz:

Many thanks for taking the time and energy to post the results.

I am surprised the accuracy dispersion, although more than acceptable for most purposes, is about 0.8 MOA given there were no significant environmental factors, the rifle and ammunition were high quality and the support was identical for every shot. Another example of how the support influences the vibrations in a rifle and the manufacturing tolerances for ammunition.

As a point of reference I have attached a diagram showing the truly amazing accuracy possible. The Houston Warehouse Experiments are fascinating if one is interested in accuracy. Distance was 100yd.

 

[flatland1]

Just commenting.

The various shooting teams around the country hogged up all the best lots of SK ammo. Pallets of them sitting in the ammo storage room waiting for shipment!

I was hoping to find some good shooting lesser priced practice ammo the day I went, nope, all spoken for!

Have to question whether these teams can buy up all existing amounts of the best lots from any distributor around the country simply by going through the Lapua testing facility. IOW, if a wholesaler like Grafs has a couple of cases of SK Rifle Match of the same lot a team wants, does an order through the Lapua testing facility have priority over an order placed by someone like me? If so, that's a self-defeating system if Lapua wants more people buying their ammo...especially if word gets out that this is happening. And how does the fact that the Lapua distribution system is now located in Missouri affect what the Lapua testing center in Arizona is able to sell these teams?

 

[D̷e̷v̷i̷l̷D̷o̷c̷A̷Z̷]

Have to question whether these teams can buy up all existing amounts of the best lots from any distributor around the country simply by going through the Lapua testing facility. IOW, if a wholesaler like Grafs has a couple of cases of SK Rifle Match of the same lot a team wants, does an order through the Lapua testing facility have priority over an order placed by someone like me? If so, that's a self-defeating system if Lapua wants more people buying their ammo...especially if word gets out that this is happening. And how does the fact that the Lapua distribution system is now located in Missouri affect what the Lapua testing center in Arizona is able to sell these teams?

No it doesn't work like that, well not at Lapua.

Here is what they do. They have inventory on site. A lot of it. It's not yet been sold to anyone. Lapua tests your rifle with the lots on site. When a lot is determined to be the "best" for your rifle you buy as much as you want. First come first serve. Because they are not set up to sell to the public you are given a sheet of "sellers" its not big5 and the sort but rather the big online shops that cater to shooter. You call the seller (righ there from the testing facility) let them know the quantity and they run your card on the phone. You then get an email as proof of payment and Lapua loads you up and you leave with ammo.

At no point are you buying ammo that's already been sold to someone else.

Also the day I went for testing 3 college schools arrived (I guess it was that time of year) and demanded they be allowed to shoot before my rifle because they had "buying power" over the locals that were there. Lapua told em to fuck off and we all went in the order we arrived. I couldn't believe how competitive they were about buying all "their lot" of what worked best. But kudos to the Lapua staff for telling them they had to wait their turn.

 

[D̷e̷v̷i̷l̷D̷o̷c̷A̷Z̷]

DevilDocAz:

Many thanks for taking the time and energy to post the results.

I am surprised the accuracy dispersion, although more than acceptable for most purposes, is about 0.8 MOA given there were no significant environmental factors, the rifle and ammunition were high quality and the support was identical for every shot. Another example of how the support influences the vibrations in a rifle and the manufacturing tolerances for ammunition.

As a point of reference I have attached a diagram showing the truly amazing accuracy possible. The Houston Warehouse Experiments are fascinating if one is interested in accuracy

Yeah I was really surprised the rifle didn't shoot 1 hole groups. I ended up buying a lot that shot a little better but it wasn't as tight as what you posted.

 

[rick137]

Yeah I was really surprised the rifle didn't shoot 1 hole groups. I ended up buying a lot that shot a little better but it wasn't as tight as what you posted.

The rifles that shot 0.025" at 100yd were creame de la creame. Most did not. Accuracy of 0.8 MOA is not shabby. More than acceptable for any rifle of mine.

I hope people with CZ455, Vudoo, Kidd, Anschutz and custom build bench have their rifles tested and share the results.

 

[Hoser]

The rifles that shot 0.025" at 100yd were creame de la creame. Most did not.

Pretty sure that .025 group was a centerfire bench gun.

 

[justin amateur]

Surprised by a 0.8 moa spread? Not me.
I've sent way too many shots across a ballistic chronograph to be surprised.
22lr is not the most consistent cartridge in terms of muzzle velocities.
The majority of high end 22 lr I've tested shows an extreme spread of 30 to 40 fps.
Gravity and time of flight alone account for 3/4 inch to an inch
of vertical spread at 100 yards with those numbers.
To produce 0.28 inches of vertical spread at 50 yards
the ES of a 40 grain 22lr needs to be less than 40 fps.
Grab y'er ballistic calculator and check my numbers.
Am I right? Pretty sure it explains the test facility targets, vertically.

 

[rick137]

Pretty sure that .025 group was a centerfire bench gun.

You are correct. All the rifles were centerfire.

As to all being benchrest, difficult to know. One statement was "Over a period of six years the accuracy achieved in the Houston Warehouse went beyond what many precision shooters thought possible for lightweight rifles shot from sandbags and aimed shot-to-shot by human eye." But what is lightweight? Another statement was "Some of the best benchrest marksman showed up with rifles...".

It is unclear if it was the only rifle to shoot 5 shot 0.025" group but "The most accurate rifle ever was ..... 10 1/2 pound Light Varmint benchrest rifle."

 

[rick137]

Surprised by a 0.8 moa spread? Not me.
I've sent way too many shots across a ballistic chronograph to be surprised.
22lr is not the most consistent cartridge in terms of muzzle velocities.
The majority of high end 22 lr I've tested shows an extreme spread of 30 to 40 fps.
Gravity and time of flight alone account for 3/4 inch to an inch
of vertical spread at 100 yards with those numbers.
To produce 0.28 inches of vertical spread at 50 yards
the ES of a 40 grain 22lr needs to be less than 40 fps.
Grab y'er ballistic calculator and check my numbers.
Am I right? Pretty sure it explains the test facility targets, vertically.

JA:

From your comments I presume you consider Tenex, RWS-50 and Lapua Midas+ high quality ammunition. Any others? Have you collected enough data to determined means and SDs?

I will check your calculations but to compare apples with apples what were your inputs?

Finally, can to quantify the magnitude of the dispersion caused by the flyers due to ammunition? 1-5 MOA, 5-10 MOA, > 10MOA?

 

[justin amateur]

I've tested all the major brands/types of 22lr/22wmr/17hmr/17wsm across a chronograph.
In 22lr, Tenex, RWS R50, and Midas+ have been the most accurate and the most consistent.

SD does not interest me. I don't care about averaged results.
I worry about worst results. Those are what lose competitions.
Those are what makes the difference between a clean kill on a critter
and a morning spent tracking a blood trail.

Vertical spread is all about differences in time of flight.
Compare two bullets. Same BC, set sight zero to zero, set scope height above bore to zero
input the lowest mv for one bullet and the highest mv for the other.
All y'er looking for is differences in vertical due to time of flight.
All the rest is extraneous info.

Competition grade ammunition is usually the production batch that has made it past the factory test procedures.
It has met the requirement of accuracy on target and across a chronograph to be sold as the brand's best product.
Still requires lot testing to ensure the statistical sampling at the factory covers the entire batch.

 

[rick137]

A muzzle velocity variation of 40 fps, if present, could quantitatively account for the vertical dispersion as suggested by justin amateur.

Now for a hypothesis to quantitatively account for the horizontal dispersion in absence of wind. The horizontal dispersion of the groups was same order of magnitude as vertical and in some cases exceeded the vertical.

 

[justin amateur]

Now y'er getting into the nitty-gritty.
I've spent hours trying to explain that one for myself.
Is it due to barrel harmonics?
Can the muzzle vibration pattern combine with rifling torque to throw laterals?
Do cartridge defects cause the lateral spread and add to the vertical?
Bullet alignment with the bore, asymmetric bullets, canted seating,
irregular case mouths, out of spec brass, bullet jump, neck tension?
The same things that cause me grief when I'm reloading centerfire.
Does the type, amount or location of lubricant on match bullets change internal and external ballistics?

 

[rick137]

A formidable gang of bad actors. And the only amelioration with several is choice of ammunition.

In "Rifle Accuracy Facts" Vaughn stated the total dispersion equals the square root of the sum of the squares of the individual contributors to the dispersion. Neither experimental nor theoretical justification was presented but assume it is true. My conjecture is this applies to a multivariate Gaussian distribution in which the components are independent, i.e. do not interact.

In any case Bench Rest Rick has a weapon system with 16 contributors to dispersion, each of which contributes 0.1 MOA. Total dispersion is therefore 0.4 MOA. In competition Rick is a pretender, not a contender. In fact the contenders laugh behind his back. Rick diligently reduces to insignificance, say 0.001 MOA or less, seven of the bad guys leaving 9. Now his total dispersion is 0.3 MOA, bottom of the heap but less laughter. Rick further reduces to insignificance another 5 and now his total dispersion is 0.2 MOA. Now he is a contender. With genius level insight he locates and reduces to insignificance three of the final four. Now his total is 0.1 MOA and he who laughs last lasts best as always but it has taken determining and eliminating fifteen of the sixteen.

Rick now decides to pursue positional shooting. He purchases a premium rifle, premium optics and uses premium 22LR ammo. Unfortunately premium marksmanship cannot be purchased. Assume all his causes of dispersion except marksmanship are 0.2 MOA, very high end indeed, and his marksmanship is 4.0 MOA. Total is 4.005 MOA. Rick's good mate, Dead-eye, can only afford a weapon system with 1.5 MOA accuracy. However, his positional marksmanship is 3.5 MOA for a total 3.81 MOA. The reader can draw what morals or immorals he or she wants.

 

[quickdraw]

I guess that Mike finished building the V22 support for the Lapua test bench. He was shipping it yesterday of so he said on the VGW Facebook page. I'm looking forward to going up to Mesa for testing our 2 V22's.

 

[RAVAGE88]

I guess that Mike finished building the V22 support for the Lapua test bench. He was shipping it yesterday of so he said on the VGW Facebook page. I'm looking forward to going up to Mesa for testing our 2 V22's.

Yessir, shipped Monday to Mesa.

Anyone needing contact info for Lapua can shoot me a PM.

MB

 

[Sieg]

Nifty work

And you've got a good start on a .22lr rail gun.

 

[NateVA]

Does the in/lbs of torque of the barreled action into the fixture affect group size?

 

[RAVAGE88]

Does the in/lbs of torque of the barreled action into the fixture affect group size?

No way to tell yet, but in theory it shouldn't. The instructions given to Daniel in the Rimfire Test Range is to torque action bolts to 65 in lbs.

MB

 

[NateVA]

No way to tell yet, but in theory it shouldn't. The instructions given to Daniel in the Rimfire Test Range is to torque action bolts to 65 in lbs.

MB

Front and rear both 65 in/lbs?

 

[RAVAGE88]

Front and rear both 65 in/lbs?

Yes.

MB

 

[rick137]

Yessir, shipped Monday to Mesa.

Anyone needing contact info for Lapua can shoot me a PM.

MB

Mike Bravo:

As points of reference do you know the accuracy with Lapua ammo "running" various support systems, ground-bipod-bag, bench-bipod-bag,...

Have you ever tested accuracy with free recoil?

Thanks, Rick

 

[quickdraw]

Yessir, shipped Monday to Mesa.

Anyone needing contact info for Lapua can shoot me a PM.

MB

Thank you Mike. The service and support that Vudoo provides us customers is 2nd to none.

 

[RAVAGE88]

Mike Bravo:

As points of reference do you know the accuracy with Lapua ammo "running" various support systems, ground-bipod-bag, bench-bipod-bag,...

Have you ever tested accuracy with free recoil?

Thanks, Rick

Rick, my testing and that across all of us at Vudoo has been bench and bag, prone and bag and the targets have been pretty impressive. It's difficult to nail down anything specific based on ammo, conditions, etc. As is always the case when platforms make it into the hands of so many, the applications of its use evolves significantly, leading those of us paying attention to develop even better platforms. Since this all started, the way the V-22 has been used has led to the creation of the Hybrid Cone Breech, Single Shot Adapter, Revised Magazine Release, Gen2 Fire Control System and a few other improvements. As this continues, I'm convinced accuracy will remain at the top of my/our list of focus points. Personally, I've never tested accuracy with free recoil, that I'm aware of anyway....

MB

 

[RAVAGE88]

Thank you Mike. The service and support that Vudoo provides us customers is 2nd to none.

We're all happy to do it QD; we have an awesome group of customers and it grows everyday.

MB

 

[rick137]

Rick, my testing and that across all of us at Vudoo has been bench and bag, prone and bag and the targets have been pretty impressive. It's difficult to nail down anything specific based on ammo, conditions, etc. As is always the case when platforms make it into the hands of so many, the applications of its use evolves significantly, leading those of us paying attention to develop even better platforms. Since this all started, the way the V-22 has been used has led to the creation of the Hybrid Cone Breech, Single Shot Adapter, Revised Magazine Release, Gen2 Fire Control System and a few other improvements. As this continues, I'm convinced accuracy will remain at the top of my/our list of focus points. Personally, I've never tested accuracy with free recoil, that I'm aware of anyway....

MB

The 6 x 5 thread provides samples of precision when all components of weapon system are optimized. Best results for V-22 are 0.3 to 0.6 MOA 6 group 5 shot average CTC at 50 yd. I mention free recoil because that was used in the Houston Warehouse Experiments along with 700 lb bench and front and rear sand bags.

 

[quickdraw]

When I get my new batch of Center X I can record my results at the next Vudoo Rimfire Series Match. I believe Range 1 has 700lbs of railroad ties to shoot off of. Last month I was 2nd on that stage by 1 point but with the new cheater ammo the sky is the limit.

 

[quickdraw]

I spent all morning at the Lapua Test Center today testing 2 Vudoo rifles. I'll get a review together over the next few days. Right now I'm too tired after my 5 1/2 return trip turned into and 8 1/2 drive because of the winter storm that rolled through the path of my trip.

 

[quickdraw]

Lapua Ammo Test Center Review:

I made my appointment last month over the phone. I drove from Vegas to Phoenix the day before and spent the night in the area because my appointment was at 8am. The next morning I arrived at the Nammo facility around 7:40 and checked in at the guard gate and was told to wait for my escort which was Daniel the guy who does the testing. This facility is a ammunition manufacturing and testing facility. They make military caliber ammunition from smaller caliber up to artillery ammo including the LAWS rocket. It is a sprawling facility.

Dan met me at 8:10 and we drove the short distance to the testing site . This is a CONEX that has been converted into a separate office and addition room where the testing is done. Coming out of the end of the CONEX is a 5ft diameter concrete pipe that the bullet travels down. This one is 100 yards long and parallel to it was was another similar building and pipe that Nammouses for testing heavier caliber ammowhere a medium size round is 50 caliber.

We removed my barreled action from my chassis and mounted it in the testing block that Mike at Vudoo had manufactured for them to use with the V22 action. It is a very nice piece. That block with my barreled action if then mounter in a heavy duty vice that is bolted down to their base. My scopes were already zeroes to 50 yards so he just used my scope to bore site everything in the pipe. They run optical sensors at 50 and 100 yards to track the bullet flight and placement. It would be like shooting groups on paper but it displays those groups on 2 computer monitors, one for each distance and with the bullet not shooting through material at 50 yards they can get undisturbed shot information at 100 yards simultaneously.

When asked what ammunition that I was interested in testing I had decided Lapua Center X and maybe some Midas Plus as well. He selected 8 lots of Center X and we began. First 10 rounds to warm up and foul my previously cleaned barrel. After that we began by loading and shooting 10 round strings of each lot. Each shot was plotted and displayed by the computer on individual monitors shot by shot for 50 and 100 yards. There equipment being I believe German origin displayed all information in mm so I used an app on my phone to do conversions that I understood. The groups and information is also displayed as a maximum diameter from the outside of each bullet rather than center to center so I took that into account as well. Basically I was looking for 20mm at 50 yards and 30mm at 100 yards which was within 1/16" or less of 1moa at each distance.

As we proceeded testing lot after lot we found some that shot well and others not so much. When we found a lot with potential we would shoot a 2nd or possibly 3rd 10 round string. Some of them might shoot great only to have a single shot that killed the group so we might retest a 2nd string to confirm that a bad result. Other strings were bad enough where we moved on after 4 shots. At the end of testing the first 8 lots we had found 3 lots with potential but I asked to try some other lots while looking for the "magic bullet". We tested 8 more lots with similar results. At that point I asked to test some Midas Plus and after 4 lots with similar results I decided that there wasn't any reason to pay 50% more for Midas that shot the same as Center X. At that point we removed my barreled action and switched to my wife's barreled action. This time we only tested the 1st 8 lots that we used on my rifle with similar results.

After each batch of lots Dan would print out data sheets from those lots and I reviewed then as he was continuing the tests. By the time we completed the testing I had already narrowed everything down to 3 lots for our rifles. I wanted to find a single lot to use in both rifles and they both seemed to like the same lots. I reviewed the information with Dan and decided of a preferred lot number. He check the inventory at their Missouri warehouse and I placed an order for the quantity I wanted. I also selected the retailer that I wanted to use to pay for the ammo. I went with Good Shooting as I had previously purchased from them and they had good pricing.


What I learned from the process:

I had initially thought that I could find a "magic bullet" of sorts. As the process went on my thought process changed though. Overall about 25% of the lots shot better in relation to the others. 50% shot well just a little below the first group and 25% shot larger groups or vertical strings. While shooting several strings of the same lots I found those lots to be fairly consistent string to string. I learned about the capability of our rifles and of what accuracy that they were capable. I learned quite a bit about what consistency I could expect from them. Our rifles shoot this lot of Center X at .8moa at 50 yards and 1moa at 100 yards.

Was it worth the time and expense:

I drove from Vegas to Phoenix so I used the better part of 2 days. Between hotel and gas it cost $350. The testing is normally $50 per rifle, he had said that he would do both for $50. In the end he waived the testing fee because of the quantity of ammo I purchased. I personally think that is was time and money well spent based on the education, information and confidence I now have in my rifles.

Note: Some people just send their rifles in to Dan and he does the testing. After that he sends them the data sheets and reviews the information with them. This would be a more cost effective way to gather the information and I may do that next time in 4 or 5 years when I run out of ammo. Maybe I'll take a trip to Texas and test with Eley...

Edit:

I completed my purchase of the ammunition with Good Shooting but Capstone will drop ship the ammunition directly from their warehouse. It should be here this week.

 

[flatland1]

Looking forward to getting the results & my bbl'd action back from Mesa this coming week. I'm fortunate to have some good friends that I've shot HP with since '98 to be listed as dealers for Capstone, and that they're within easy driving distance when the ammo I wind up ordering comes in. I'd have liked to have been able to be there in person to witness the testing process, but it's a little over 900mi to Mesa from here, so...