How should one most efficiently find not only the proper weight of powder but also which powder and OAL is best for your new rifle

[want2learn]

I've been reading a bunch of the stickies...and they're incredibly helpful but i still feel like i'm missing something fundamental and important.

I read about the ladder test...that would yield one or two powder weight values.

So does one tend to do 4 or 5 different ladder tests to then identify a suitable powder as well.

And then, i would imagine one tries to identify the appropriate and optimal over all length of the cartridge and projectile based on the results of the aforementioned series of ladder tests and measuring the distance to the rifled lands. Is that correct? Is that the most efficient way to do this?

If i don't mess this up it seems like it would take me 8 different weights per ladder x 5 different powders...for 40 rounds. Then to find the appropriate over all length i would imagine another 8 rounds or so...for a total of 48 rounds.

I know i can't well tolerate a lot of recoil so i would imagine it's best to skip the higher powder weights. (i'm stuck shooting .308 Winchester until i can afford to rebarrel my rifle....but i don't want to give up on shooting till then).

Also, would 200 yards suffice for a valid ladder test?

Hope this question/query makes sense. thanks

 

[spife7980]

Sometimes you just have to put in the rounds to find something that shoots good, no short cuts.

You can short cut by using the components everyone else has gravitated to, they are doin sonfor a reason. For 308 a 175 matchking or something in that vein and varget will do well.

 

[Doc68]

Look at the 155 palmas also or 168 eld.

 

[47guy]

Sometimes you just have to put in the rounds to find something that shoots good, no short cuts.

You can short cut by using the components everyone else has gravitated to, they are doin sonfor a reason. For 308 a 175 matchking or something in that vein and varget will do well.

THIS RIGHT HERE.^^^

 

[want2learn]

Thanks....just wanted to make sure i'm on the right track. It's such an expensive sport for us right now but i really enjoy it. I'm trying to be systematic, safe and cost conscious especially while learning.

 

[EchoDeltaSierra]

http://www.65guys.com/10-round-load-development-ladder-test/

If you have a chronograph and can be accurate with your reloading practices, finding and validating optimal charge weight should not take more than 25-35 rounds. 10-15 to sweep and measure a charge range 15-25 more to shoot groups and validate the OCW node. If you’re doing it right, this should produce single-digit SD ammo. Jump, neck tension, and other stuff is fine tuning that can be visited to take those 1/2” groups smaller, but first focus on creating accurate and consistent ammo with just OCW loads.

 

[Danattherock]

Last few rifles I have done load development in less than 50 rounds, all are 1/4 minute rifles with SD of 3-6. It wasn't always this easy, but will share what I have learned from others.

First, you will be better off if you buy quality brass, a proven projectile, and the right die set. For me, that means Alpha or Lapua brass and Redding Type S full length sizing die set with micrometer inline seating die.

Setup die with appropriate sized bushing to bump shoulders back 2 thou. Lube cases with lanolin spray in pizza box, roll around a bit, few more sprays, allow to dry 5-8 minutes while you get press ready and tidy up bench. Tumble for 30 minutes to remove lube. Prime with good primers, fed210Ms or similar.

Load development is simple doing what's referred to as Saterlee Velocity ladder. Scott Saterlee, high level PRS shooter and instructor. Seems 6.5 Guys, YouTube channel, had show with Scott about this. It's the best thing I have learned about reloading.

Basically, target range, say 40-42 gr for 6.5 creed. Load one round at 40 gr, 40.2, 40.4, 40.6, etc. Shoot in order and look at velocity. You are looking for the flat spot, which identifies an accuracy node. So if 40.6 is 2765 for, 40.8 is 2767 fps, and 41 is 2770 fps, this is your flat spot. Pick middle charge, 40.8, and move on to test seating depth.

Seating depth testing can be as simple or as complicated as you want, my vote is for simpler. Load up 5 each at 5 off lands, 20 off, 40 off, and 60 off. Load 3 foulers to shoot first, warms barrel and shooter. If 20 off is best, common to me, then load +/-5 thou so 15 off, 20 off to verify, and 25 off (5 each just like first test). Pick winner, roll with it.

Assuming quality rifle, components, reloading technique, shooting technique, this basic load development method should result in a tuned load for that rifle. All my initial loads for charge weight are 15 thou off lands. Use Hornady headspace gauge kit, bullet comparator, and OAL gauge (to measure distance to lands).

Accurate charge weights, by scales, are important. Good projectiles, important. Neck tension, important. Annealing every 3rd firing and controlling neck tension with appropriate bushing will take care of much. Annealeeze is $275, great annealer for budget minded shooters.

Many ways to skin a cat. This has worked for me. Good luck.


Dan

 

[Deleted member 10043]

Run up a load in increments to find safe max with bullets seated .01 off the lands. Then pick a MV at least .5 grains below that. Then then starting at .005" to find an accurate setting depth. Just back off in .005" increments. This is a down and dirty old timey method.

Lately, I have been running up a load in .1 grain increments .01" off the lands and recording the MV. Say 20 rounds or more. Then I look for a decent flat area and MV. From there I find the seating depth as described above.

I do not spend a lot of time. I'm only striving for .5 moa accuracy or better.

My premise is charge weight is secondary to seating depth. For the rest of the barrel life you are going to be chasing the lands and along the way the accuracy is going to fluctuate anyway. In my experience that fluctuation is going to be in the ballpark of +/- .2 MOA. Most of us are limited in assets and time and not preparing for Wimbledon Cup at Camp Perry. So, might as well keep it simple as possible unless reloading is really your passion.

 

[Deleted member 10043]

I'm going to shoot the next motherfucker in the ass with rock salt that gets a newbie down those faggot 6.5 guys' rabbit hole. You assholes shoot like faggots. Not that there is anything wrong with that but there is a reason there is 6.5 of them to begin with. Real talk.

 

[EchoDeltaSierra]

I'm going to shoot the next motherfucker in the ass with rock salt that gets a newbie down the 6.5 faggot guys rabbit hole. You assholes shoot like faggots. Not that there is anything wrong with that.

 

[SnowMan]

You are over thinking it. Get a reloading manual. Get some Varget or 4064. Get some 168/175's. This will get you started in the right direction. By the time you do all that testing you will lose interest.

 

[want2learn]

i try to be pretty methodical and judicious so all this information really helps me a lot. I'm going to spend some time and sort through it all...

I really appreciate the experience and willingness to share. It means a lot.

I don't yet own a 6 or 6.5 but hopefully one day will, for now it's a .308, .222 (and a .22lr) that i'm focusing on. Trying to develop my skills and understanding of the sport.

When i save up enough i would like to re-barrel my .308 to ease up on the recoil. It's pretty tough on me. I'm hoping in the coming months.

I'm not sure what will turn out to be a more favorable option for me....purchasing the Benchmark barrel already set up for the Sig SSG3000 or having one of the other premier barrel makers re-barrel using the extension that's on my current .308 barrel. $800 dollars is a lot of money for the former, not sure how much the latter option would run.

I don't have a chronograph...at least not yet but i think my neighbor might have one, he used to shoot bullseye pistol competitively in the 80's and he's been a great resource as well to get me safely on my way.

 

[Seymour Fish]

I've been reading a bunch of the stickies...and they're incredibly helpful but i still feel like i'm missing something fundamental and important.

I read about the ladder test...that would yield one or two powder weight values.

So does one tend to do 4 or 5 different ladder tests to then identify a suitable powder as well.

And then, i would imagine one tries to identify the appropriate and optimal over all length of the cartridge and projectile based on the results of the aforementioned series of ladder tests and measuring the distance to the rifled lands. Is that correct? Is that the most efficient way to do this?

If i don't mess this up it seems like it would take me 8 different weights per ladder x 5 different powders...for 40 rounds. Then to find the appropriate over all length i would imagine another 8 rounds or so...for a total of 48 rounds.

I know i can't well tolerate a lot of recoil so i would imagine it's best to skip the higher powder weights. (i'm stuck shooting .308 Winchester until i can afford to rebarrel my rifle....but i don't want to give up on shooting till then).

Also, would 200 yards suffice for a valid ladder test?

Hope this question/query makes sense. thanks

You are screening for a wide powder node. 3-4 incremental increases in same hole or it’s time to change.