AR-15...best outta the box gun that’s suited for shots out to 500 yards for 3 gun matches

AllWorkAndNoPlay

AllWorkAndNoPlay

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Feb 1, 2019
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#1
I’m looking to get into 3 gun at my local range, but they won’t let me use my AR-10. A 5.56 cal is the limit, so I guess I need to buy another gun...lol.

I’m looking hard at the SIG M400, but my AR-10 is an Armalite and it’s sub MOA with match grade ammo and I’ve killed 2 deer with it so an Armalite would be my easy choice...

What would you guys recommend if y’all needed a new 3 gun rifle?
 
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#2
The sig can get it done but its not really setup for competitions, its more of a fighting carbine.
It really depends on what your budget is and how serious you are about competing. You can spend well over $3,000 on a JP and leave nothing on the table as far as the rifle goes or buy a less expensive more mil spec rifle for around a grand. There are plenty of in betweens.
The Armalite 3G does look like a great value
 
#3
strike33 said:
The sig can get it done but its not really setup for competitions, its more of a fighting carbine.
It really depends on what your budget is and how serious you are about competing. You can spend well over $3,000 on a JP and leave nothing on the table as far as the rifle goes or buy a less expensive more mil spec rifle for around a grand. There are plenty of in betweens.
The Armalite 3G does look like a great value
Click to expand...
It’s a slippery slope, but I’ve learned a long time ago to buy once and cry once...
 
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#6
depends on how the rules are written. the 223 is 224 (.22 cal) bullet. If your range/match rules state 223 Remington or 5.56 then no you cant use the 224 Valkrye. But if states a 224 projectile then technically you could, but there really isn't a need to run a 224 Val in a 3 gun comp, its a long range precision .22
 
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#8
AllWorkAndNoPlay said:
Okay, just took a look at JP and have a question; is a .224 considered the same thing as a 5.56 for a 3 gun match even though it’s in betwix a .223 and 5.56?
Click to expand...
No it is not, what would probably best suite you is a chamber cut in .223 Wylde that way you can maximize the effectiveness of commercial and handloaded .223 while still being able to effectively, reliably, and accurately utilize 5.56 ammo in the gun also if you were in a pinch.
 
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#9
DaleGribble82 said:
No it is not, what would probably best suite you is a chamber cut in .223 Wylde that way you can maximize the effectiveness of commercial and handloaded .223 while still being able to effectively, reliably, and accurately utilize 5.56 ammo in the gun also if you were in a pinch.
Click to expand...
Okay, so if I’m understanding you correctly the .223 Wylde is the best chamber cuz you can run both .223 and 5.56 ammo down the tube and you are also saying the store bought match grade .223 will out perform the store bought match grade 5.56 out to 500 yards? If that’s the case then hand loads of .223 should perform even better once they are dialed in?
 
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#10
AllWorkAndNoPlay said:
Okay, so if I’m understanding you correctly the .223 Wylde is the best chamber cuz you can run both .223 and 5.56 ammo down the tube and you are also saying the store bought match grade .223 will out perform the store bought match grade 5.56 out to 500 yards? If that’s the case then hand loads of .223 should perform even better once they are dialed in?
Click to expand...
Well you can run .223 in a gun chambered for 5.56 but the chamber tolerances are not as tight. The .223 Wylde chamber cut works essentially the same as a 5.56 chamber in the aspect that you yes can shoot both ammunition types but the .223 Wylde will produce significantly better accuracy results than a standard 5.56 chamber.

What you said about the ammo is spot on though.
 
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#11
Thanks for the recommendation Strike33, I think this JP would do nicely...and thanks Dale82 for the Wylde recommendation!

CTR-02™ Rifle
Receivers Machined-from-billet CTR-02™ receiver set >>>Finish Matte Black Caliber .223 WyldeBarrel 18" Supermatch™ | light contour | 1:8 twist | rifle gas system >>>Muzzle Competition Series Compensator >>>Barrel Finish Polished stainless | time/blend compensatorHeat Sink n/aHand Guard MK III Signature Series | XL (15.5” OAL) >>>Charging Handle Radian Raptor-LT >>>Gas System Detent adjustment | low profile >>>Operating System LMOS™ polished stainless steel bolt carrier | EnhancedBolt™ >>> Buffer Silent Captured Spring >>>Trigger 3.5-4.0 lbs. | Curved >>>Stock ACE Skeletonized >>>Grip Hogue >>> Accessories "Small-frame accessory pack, QD sling swivel "Length (min.) 0 in.Weight 0 lbs.Notes N/A
 

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#14
JP is still the gold standard for factory 3 gun rifles. The Armalite 3 gun rifle is quickly becoming the go to budget option and for good reason. I wouldn't call it 100% match optimized but its closer than anything else in the price range.

224V is truly a horrible idea for 3 gun unless you're made of money, won't ever reload, and really want to dick yourself over with low capacity mags.
 
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#15
Excellent choice @AllWorkAndNoPlay. I recently pieced my 3 gun rifle together, and used a lot of JP parts in the process. You can’t go wrong with them. I will say though, I love shooting 3 gun for the fun and practice but I’m not much of a gamer. So with that said I did elect to use the full mass JP BCG with enhanced bolt, and it has been phenomenal. Let me know how the low mass preforms. If you ever want to link up and do some shooting or hit a match up together I’m down in Fayetteville.
 
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#16
223 vs 556 - 556 chambers have more freebore than a standard 223 saami spec chamber, to accommodate the higher pressures of the 556 round. The Wylde has a longer freebore to accommodate heavier match bullets.

A non-dedicated gaming gun - I find Daniel Defense hard to ignore as a factory built, reasonably priced, quality rifle. BUT we still end up building our own :)
 
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#17
DaleGribble82 said:
Excellent choice @AllWorkAndNoPlay. I recently pieced my 3 gun rifle together, and used a lot of JP parts in the process. You can’t go wrong with them. I will say though, I love shooting 3 gun for the fun and practice but I’m not much of a gamer. So with that said I did elect to use the full mass JP BCG with enhanced bolt, and it has been phenomenal. Let me know how the low mass preforms. If you ever want to link up and do some shooting or hit a match up together I’m down in Fayetteville.
Click to expand...
All said and done though for what my rifle ended up costing, I could have went your route and picked up the CTR-02 from JP and been just as happy, I enjoyed the process of picking out the individual parts I specifically wanted though.
 
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#18
 
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#20
@TonyTheTiger This is definitely something, I find intriguing maybe in the near future, I’ll make the switch. I have a SilencerCO ASR break on the gun now, it definitely isn’t the best break for gaming, but, I used that so I can run my cans on the rifle when hunting coyotes. I’m very pleased with the full mass, and after reading your statement it does make perfect sense that it is a liability issue.
 
#23
AllWorkAndNoPlay said:
Thanks for the recommendation Strike33, I think this JP would do nicely...and thanks Dale82 for the Wylde recommendation!

CTR-02™ Rifle
Receivers Machined-from-billet CTR-02™ receiver set >>>Finish Matte Black Caliber .223 WyldeBarrel 18" Supermatch™ | light contour | 1:8 twist | rifle gas system >>>Muzzle Competition Series Compensator >>>Barrel Finish Polished stainless | time/blend compensatorHeat Sink n/aHand Guard MK III Signature Series | XL (15.5” OAL) >>>Charging Handle Radian Raptor-LT >>>Gas System Detent adjustment | low profile >>>Operating System LMOS™ polished stainless steel bolt carrier | EnhancedBolt™ >>> Buffer Silent Captured Spring >>>Trigger 3.5-4.0 lbs. | Curved >>>Stock ACE Skeletonized >>>Grip Hogue >>> Accessories "Small-frame accessory pack, QD sling swivel "Length (min.) 0 in.Weight 0 lbs.Notes N/A
Click to expand...

Awesome rifle, I have one almost identical. The CTR02 is relatively heavy, and I like a heavy rifle, but I would recommend going with the titanium comp and skipping the thermal dissipator.
 
#24
I run the Armalite 3G upper (prefer to build my own lowers) for most of my 3G matches. Tuning the comp is easy and I think it's one of the very best out there. I threw in a low mass BCG (Rubber City Armory) and went to town. Three friends run the the whole Armalite gun. Out of the box they are very good, especially for the price. The JP is all that and more. And I have a few JPs.

If 500 yards is the norm for your matches another great option is the Seekins NX3G2. I have other Seekins rifles and don't know how I haven't managed to buy one of these.

https://www.seekinsprecision.com/product/modern-sporting-rifles/spro3g-4.html

A word on the low mass systems. I have run low mass JP bolts in 3G for a long time and they are fantastic. For my current 3G rifle I went with Rubber City Armory and after several thousand rounds its all thumbs up. Combined with the Taran Butler spring this rifle is tuned down to a faint pulse.

In any event, please post your setup and share your thoughts on it.
 
#25
MosesTheTank said:
I run the Armalite 3G upper (prefer to build my own lowers) for most of my 3G matches. Tuning the comp is easy and I think it's one of the very best out there. I threw in a low mass BCG (Rubber City Armory) and went to town. Three friends run the the whole Armalite gun. Out of the box they are very good, especially for the price. The JP is all that and more. And I have a few JPs.

If 500 yards is the norm for your matches another great option is the Seekins NX3G2. I have other Seekins rifles and don't know how I haven't managed to buy one of these.

https://www.seekinsprecision.com/product/modern-sporting-rifles/spro3g-4.html

A word on the low mass systems. I have run low mass JP bolts in 3G for a long time and they are fantastic. For my current 3G rifle I went with Rubber City Armory and after several thousand rounds its all thumbs up. Combined with the Taran Butler spring this rifle is tuned down to a faint pulse.

In any event, please post your setup and share your thoughts on it.
Click to expand...

Thanks and will do!
 
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#26
AllWorkAndNoPlay said:
I’m looking to get into 3 gun at my local range, but they won’t let me use my AR-10. A 5.56 cal is the limit, so I guess I need to buy another gun...lol.

I’m looking hard at the SIG M400, but my AR-10 is an Armalite and it’s sub MOA with match grade ammo and I’ve killed 2 deer with it so an Armalite would be my easy choice...

What would you guys recommend if y’all needed a new 3 gun rifle?
Click to expand...

I think you will be very happy with the JP you speced out. My JP has been a workhorse in 3 gun and is now my PRS practice rifle. 20190203_125643_HDR.jpg
 
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#29
Push said:
Awesome rifle, I have one almost identical. The CTR02 is relatively heavy, and I like a heavy rifle, but I would recommend going with the titanium comp and skipping the thermal dissipator.
Click to expand...


Weight is one of those things that folks find their own balance on based on preference. I also like a relatively heavy 3 gun rifle but rather than dropping weight at the muzzle with Ti I prefer adding weight in the rear with a Magpul PRS stock. I found that the PRS stock and extra weight helped keep me stable on the long range and get first round hits easier but the matches in Texas emphasized the longer shots. Some friends in the Florida area don't see shots past 200 yards though so they go super light.

I couldn't go without the Thermal Dissapator in any build though. Removing heat from the barrel lets me shoot more efficient practice sessions. Some matches are getting to be wicked tests of whether a rifle has a POI shift after heating. Vortex 3 gun had a 60+ round rifle run with 50+ close paper shots followed by 10ish longer shots at the end. We have locally had Hosefest matches designed with the goal of 50 rounds into paper in ~15-20 seconds. All my rifle caliber JP's get spec'ed out with the Thermal Dissapator.
 
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#31
Why anyone would drop large $$ on a 3-gun setup is beyond me. It's just not necessary. If you're into gadgets and brand name engraving, that's cool. To each their own.

  • Quality barrel - for 3 gun accuracy that means 2MOA. Not hard or expensive to get.
  • Decent compensator to flatten out the double taps. $100 or less
  • Optic - plenty of folks win 3 Gun matches with $500 Vortex 1-4x, or go ahead and splurge on a 1-8x. If it's a 500 yard target you're probably looking at a 24" plate, sillhouette, etc. No need for tiny groups.
  • Quality trigger is the only truly necessary upgrade, and that can be a $125 CMC drop in.

All of the low mass, super tuned, highspeed add on stuff is just window dressing and not at all necessary. 3 Gun is 95% software, not hardware.

Spend that $$ on ammo and match fees if you want to win at 3 gun.


Edit: Go ahead and drop the big $$ on your shotgun. That's where 3 gun is won/lost.
 
Last edited:
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#33
WNC Seabee said:
Why anyone would drop large $$ on a 3-gun setup is beyond me. It's just not necessary. If you're into gadgets and brand name engraving, that's cool. To each their own.

  • Quality barrel - for 3 gun accuracy that means 2MOA. Not hard or expensive to get.
  • Decent compensator to flatten out the double taps. $100 or less
  • Optic - plenty of folks win 3 Gun matches with $500 Vortex 1-4x, or go ahead and splurge on a 1-8x. If it's a 500 yard target you're probably looking at a 24" plate, sillhouette, etc. No need for tiny groups.
  • Quality trigger is the only truly necessary upgrade, and that can be a $125 CMC drop in.

All of the low mass, super tuned, highspeed add on stuff is just window dressing and not at all necessary. 3 Gun is 95% software, not hardware.

Spend that $$ on ammo and match fees if you want to win at 3 gun.


Edit: Go ahead and drop the big $$ on your shotgun. That's where 3 gun is won/lost.
Click to expand...
Strongly disagree. Plenty of stages are won with 50yd doubles on paper that are just not possible without a well tuned rifle.
 
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#34
TonyTheTiger said:
Strongly disagree. Plenty of stages are won with 50yd doubles on paper that are just not possible without a well tuned rifle.
Click to expand...
Agreed, I mean depending on your level of gaming and dedication to the sport is really what matters, whatever someone can responsibly and most of all responsibly afford is good to go in my book. High end well tuned weapons will always be a step ahead but it doesn’t take all that Gucci gear to be competitive, but you will reach a point in this and other shooting sports where that does matter. I don’t care who you are.

When you get to a certain level which I’m no where near the weapons you use and your gear selection do matter and will impact your scores. It’s all about getting out there shooting and having a great time, but to say “95% of 3 gun is software, not hardware” is not only bad advice, but also completely false depending on your level of skill and competitiveness of course.
 
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#35
DaleGribble82 said:
but to say “95% of 3 gun is software, not hardware” is not only bad advice, but also completely false depending on your level of skill and competitiveness of course.
Click to expand...

I'll amend my statement somewhat to say, "when it comes to RIFLES, 95% of 3 gun is software, not hardware".

Shotguns...there is a clear dividing line between entry level and higher end guns. A JM Pro is a distinct disadvantage compared to a Berreta 1301, Benelli M2, etc.

Same for pistols. Flat shooting 2011s are decidedly better than an off-the-shelf Glock.
 
#36
WNC Seabee said:
I'll amend my statement somewhat to say, "when it comes to RIFLES, 95% of 3 gun is software, not hardware".

Shotguns...there is a clear dividing line between entry level and higher end guns. A JM Pro is a distinct disadvantage compared to a Berreta 1301, Benelli M2, etc.

Same for pistols. Flat shooting 2011s are decidedly better than an off-the-shelf Glock.
Click to expand...
Makes sense just gotta figure out where to put the money. I run an STI and a custom AR, but I’m always at a disadvantage with my JM Pro against a much higher end shotgun. I have to be extremely proficient with it to work with upper level Benelli, FN, Berretta etc. shotguns. With that said I’ve never had a problem running it at all. It just isn’t at the top of the food chain.
 
#40
DaleGribble82 said:
When you decide to catch up, I highly suggest you go with an SVI, STI, or a high end CZ race gun in that order.
Click to expand...

This is off my rifle subject, but Wow! I didn’t even know they made a “2011”. I like the STI DVC P and they offer it in both .45 APC & 9mm. Which cal is most effective in 3 gun matches?

Caliber - 9mm & .45 ACP
Barrel - Patented Recoil Compensation Barrel – 5.00
Finish - Diamond Like Carbon, Black
Magazines - 2 x 140mm, 1x 126mm
Trigger - 3.0 lbs w/ Ambi Safety Levers
Sights - HOST Rear with Fiber Optic Front
Grip - Gen II 2011® Double Stack
Other -Gen II HOST Optic Cut, Dawson Precision Tool-Less Guide Rod, Tactical Slim Magwell, Railed Frame
 

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#41
unless you're in a "heavy" division (typically 308 rifle and .45 handgun and 12ga sometimes pump shottie) you def want only a 9mm. more capacity and less recoil for faster follow up shots. as well, you don't want an optic on your handgun unless you are in 'open' division (dot on handgun, scope and dot on rifle, mag fed shottie). if you want a real nice 2011 at a 'reasonable' price, check out dawson precision, they have some 'supertuned' (trigger and reliability work added) on 9mm STI Edge's. brazos custom does the same thing with their 'hp' packages.
 
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#42
AllWorkAndNoPlay said:
This is off my rifle subject, but Wow! I didn’t even know they made a “2011”. I like the STI DVC P and they offer it in both .45 APC & 9mm. Which cal is most effective in 3 gun matches?

Caliber - 9mm & .45 ACP
Barrel - Patented Recoil Compensation Barrel – 5.00
Finish - Diamond Like Carbon, Black
Magazines - 2 x 140mm, 1x 126mm
Trigger - 3.0 lbs w/ Ambi Safety Levers
Sights - HOST Rear with Fiber Optic Front
Grip - Gen II 2011® Double Stack
Other -Gen II HOST Optic Cut, Dawson Precision Tool-Less Guide Rod, Tactical Slim Magwell, Railed Frame
Click to expand...
You definitely wanna use a 9mm for 3 gun. The DVC is really nice from what I’ve seen I haven’t used one, but I know plenty that have. I use an STI Marauder which is no longer in production. If I didn’t have one though I’d personally choose to get a STI edge that is Brazos tuned or an Edge tuned by Dave Dawson in 9mm.

I just can’t seem to get the premium for the DVC other than the pleasing asthetics. Off though on that assumption. Anyone on here running a DVC?
 
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#43
davsco said:
unless you're in a "heavy" division (typically 308 rifle and .45 handgun and 12ga sometimes pump shottie) you def want only a 9mm. more capacity and less recoil for faster follow up shots. as well, you don't want an optic on your handgun unless you are in 'open' division (dot on handgun, scope and dot on rifle, mag fed shottie). if you want a real nice 2011 at a 'reasonable' price, check out dawson precision, they have some 'supertuned' (trigger and reliability work added) on 9mm STI Edge's. brazos custom does the same thing with their 'hp' packages.
Click to expand...
Took the words right out of my mouth bud good stuff!
 
#45
WNC Seabee said:
Edit: Go ahead and drop the big $$ on your shotgun. That's where 3 gun is won/lost.
Click to expand...

In my experience shooting 3-gun, the shot gun stage,....particularly the reload...is what really separated the "men from the boys." So, there is merit here.

That being said, a quality AR spec'ed out to cut recoil and get shots on targets off quicker, ie trigger and comp, is not to be dismissed either. A JP will not let you down and will come ready to thrash. Or you can set one up yourself as described above. One can readily see the difference between a tuned AR and a stock one when guys are really running their guns hard.
 
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#46
USMC_JA said:
In my experience shooting 3-gun, the shot gun stage,....particularly the reload...is what really separated the "men from the boys." So, there is merit here.

That being said, a quality AR spec'ed out to cut recoil and get shots on targets off quicker, ie trigger and comp, is not to be dismissed either. A JP will not let you down and will come ready to thrash. Or you can set one up yourself as described above. One can readily see the difference between a tuned AR and a stock one when guys are really running their guns hard.
Click to expand...
Fact.
 
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#47
DaleGribble82 said:
Anyone on here running a DVC?
Click to expand...
A few of my regular squad mates have them, they like them but can't really articulate any improvement over the previous 2011 the DVC replaced.

Surprisingly the SPS Pantera has looked very solid for a lower cost 2011. The ones I've seen maybe weren't quite as polished as more expensive guns but they run and thats the main thing.

If money spending is your style, I've seen a lot of Hayes Custom guns lately that are just flat awesome.
 
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#48
USMC_JA said:
In my experience shooting 3-gun, the shot gun stage,....particularly the reload...is what really separated the "men from the boys." So, there is merit here.
Click to expand...
While it is 33% of your arsenal and is obviously important, loading fast isn't the big divide between good and great shooters that it was when I started.

Nowadays literally everyone with half an hour a week to practice in the basement can quad load 8 rounds well under 4 seconds, between all the great caddy options and everyone realizing they could practice it without spending any money it seems to be the norm now.
 
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#49
DaleGribble82 said:
I’m always at a disadvantage with my JM Pro against a much higher end shotgun. I have to be extremely proficient with it to work with upper level Benelli, FN, Berretta etc. shotguns.
Click to expand...
I'll have to disagree with you here. If you're 930 runs, fits you, shoots slugs where you point and the loading port suits you, you really have all you can need in a shotgun. 930's actually shoot a lot softer than inertia guns FWIW. The reason you don't see them anymore is because very few guns were made on Wednesday, most are Monday or Friday at 4:59pm guns.
 
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#50
TonyTheTiger said:
A few of my regular squad mates have them, they like them but can't really articulate any improvement over the previous 2011 the DVC replaced.

Surprisingly the SPS Pantera has looked very solid for a lower cost 2011. The ones I've seen maybe weren't quite as polished as more expensive guns but they run and thats the main thing.

If money spending is your style, I've seen a lot of Hayes Custom guns lately that are just flat awesome.
Click to expand...
If I’m not mistaken my Marauder was what was replaced by the DVC. Not as asthetically pleasing as the DVC, but form, fit, and function seem to be no different to me thus far.
 
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