Is the 6 dasher still relevant?
- Thread starter lte82
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Almost any moderate to fast 6mm is going to be relevant for PRS as long as people think it's got some advantage over the others that matches their personal priorities.
In other words, it's not going away any time soon. Neither is 6 Creedmoor. Or 6 BR.... or 6BRA.... 6BRX.... 6XC... 6x47L....
I really hope the headstamp reads 6 GAY TIGER.
"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things. And a good thing never dies" - Stephen King
But here I disagree.
If the 6GT is of its claims I’m not sure why one would want to mess with the dasher with new rifle builds personally. But each their own.
youll be much happier with the dasher...im just about done with my first BRX barrel...STUPID accurate!!
The 6 Dasher is not some flash-in-the-pan. It has been around a long time and isn't going anywhere soon. Yes, the 6BRA seems to be grabbing everyone's attention lately but 6 Dasher still wins. When I first started with the Dasher I fire-formed my own. Since DJ moved to my area and we've become good friends I now get all my Dasher hydro-formed by him. I've tried others, just as a point of reference, but no other Dasher brass is as good as his.
As already mentioned, PRS shooters are crazy over the 6's and there are plenty of them to choose from.
As already mentioned, PRS shooters are crazy over the 6's and there are plenty of them to choose from.
Hi,
Next year will be the 6XGT (Xtra Gay Tiger) and all you guys still waiting for the 6 Gay Tiger will be so irrelevant....
Sincerely,
Theis
Next year will be the 6XGT (Xtra Gay Tiger) and all you guys still waiting for the 6 Gay Tiger will be so irrelevant....
Sincerely,
Theis
Theres no magic round that immediately makes all others obsolete. Dasher is definitely still relevant and will be for a long time
The 6GT is George Gardners baby, and he wants to control all aspects of it and
promote it as the next coming.
Bet Alpha is running tons of his head stamped brass and the first PRS match, team GAP
will be shooting it and his hope is it does well and he can sell more rifles and brass,
great marketing. Have to reinvent the wheel once in a while
So of course he's going to compare it to the popular 6 Dasher and say how much better it is.
You don't develop a round and say it's almost as good as yours.
The 6 Dasher is and will be a great round. If someone would give it a little factory help
( brass and a hunting bullet ) and then factory ammo, it could have been the next 6.5 Creedmoor.
promote it as the next coming.
Bet Alpha is running tons of his head stamped brass and the first PRS match, team GAP
will be shooting it and his hope is it does well and he can sell more rifles and brass,
great marketing. Have to reinvent the wheel once in a while
So of course he's going to compare it to the popular 6 Dasher and say how much better it is.
You don't develop a round and say it's almost as good as yours.
The 6 Dasher is and will be a great round. If someone would give it a little factory help
( brass and a hunting bullet ) and then factory ammo, it could have been the next 6.5 Creedmoor.
Except that 6.5CM doesn't have mixed success with magazines requiring magazine kits.
So I can go Gay Tiger and not have to fire form, correct?
Sigh me up. That sounds grrrrrreat.
Sigh me up. That sounds grrrrrreat.
Well for those unaware we can list the pros and cons
6 Dasher:
Pros
Good Lapua BR brass to form from with plenty of supply (sorta)
Great case capacity to push a 105 to 2950-3000
Known for inherent accuracy
Good barrel life
Cons
Questionable reliability with feeding
Time consuming and barre wasting and somewhat inconsistent fireforming from jamming a bullet vs a BRA which uses the shoulder to headspace
Less velocity
6GT (assumptions made from talking to George and reading about it)
Pros
Doesn’t require mag kits and feeds reliably
Higher velocity than a dasher
Alpha brass (no fireforming)
Cons
Unknown performance since it isn’t in the real world yet. Will be seen if it maintains the BR inherent accuracy of that case design but it does share a lot of characteristics.
Probably going to be early issues with trying to get brass if it catches on.
If you’re heavily invested in dasher and have 800 pieces of foreformed brass is it worth changing? No. If you’re starting from scratch which would you chose? For me, I’d take the GT simply because I don’t have to fireform and I get better velocity yet less than a 47 or creed. Also the barrel life to velocity to recoil ratio is just about the sweet spot for my wants. All in all pretty excited about this round. If someone doesn’t start making dasher brass I could see the GT making it irrelevant in the next 3-4 years if brass is readily available and the cartridge proves to be inherently accurate like the BR parent case cartridges
6 Dasher:
Pros
Good Lapua BR brass to form from with plenty of supply (sorta)
Great case capacity to push a 105 to 2950-3000
Known for inherent accuracy
Good barrel life
Cons
Questionable reliability with feeding
Time consuming and barre wasting and somewhat inconsistent fireforming from jamming a bullet vs a BRA which uses the shoulder to headspace
Less velocity
6GT (assumptions made from talking to George and reading about it)
Pros
Doesn’t require mag kits and feeds reliably
Higher velocity than a dasher
Alpha brass (no fireforming)
Cons
Unknown performance since it isn’t in the real world yet. Will be seen if it maintains the BR inherent accuracy of that case design but it does share a lot of characteristics.
Probably going to be early issues with trying to get brass if it catches on.
If you’re heavily invested in dasher and have 800 pieces of foreformed brass is it worth changing? No. If you’re starting from scratch which would you chose? For me, I’d take the GT simply because I don’t have to fireform and I get better velocity yet less than a 47 or creed. Also the barrel life to velocity to recoil ratio is just about the sweet spot for my wants. All in all pretty excited about this round. If someone doesn’t start making dasher brass I could see the GT making it irrelevant in the next 3-4 years if brass is readily available and the cartridge proves to be inherently accurate like the BR parent case cartridges
Hi,
The 2020 version of the new and highly anticipated 5.98mm TNT (TransNuetralTiger) is going to "irrelevant" all the big, overbore 6mm cartridges.?
Sincerely,
Theis
The 2020 version of the new and highly anticipated 5.98mm TNT (TransNuetralTiger) is going to "irrelevant" all the big, overbore 6mm cartridges.?
Sincerely,
Theis
6mm bandwagon is for hipsters and liberals.
I hear tell the 25 cal is taking over the communist demographic. Or was it the nymphomaniac demographic....
Now I am all worked up - can hardly wait for all of you to buy the circus animal so all that overstock blue box 6BR brass goes on sale!
I’m actually seriously contemplating building a 6BR for a general all around shooter.
Can somebody tell me what makes a caliber "inherently more accurate" than another?
Sure a 338 is going to make folks more recoil sensitive than a 243. A crooked chamber will goof your accuracy just as fast.
But what, all else being equal...same cut rifled barrel, chambered concentric, etc. makes a Dasher more accurate than a 6 Creed? You can make necks tighter on any caliber, you could say "shoulder angle!" but what stops you from doing an Ackley shoulder or a 30 degree or whatever is desired on any cartridge on Earth?
Shoulder angles and body tapers affect feeding, not sure how that would effect accuracy. Powder burn? Maybe a little more consistency and thus less vertical at distance?
Kinda sounds like a "dicky" statement to me.
Sure a 338 is going to make folks more recoil sensitive than a 243. A crooked chamber will goof your accuracy just as fast.
But what, all else being equal...same cut rifled barrel, chambered concentric, etc. makes a Dasher more accurate than a 6 Creed? You can make necks tighter on any caliber, you could say "shoulder angle!" but what stops you from doing an Ackley shoulder or a 30 degree or whatever is desired on any cartridge on Earth?
Shoulder angles and body tapers affect feeding, not sure how that would effect accuracy. Powder burn? Maybe a little more consistency and thus less vertical at distance?
Kinda sounds like a "dicky" statement to me.
I’m not a case designer. I don’t think it’s one or two deciding factors that make it better than all the others. I think it has be the sum of the all the parts. Case length; powder column; powder burn rate; shoulder angle; neck length; case full percentage; common velocity node and on and on. As well as 6mm is easy and cost effective to shoot so people probably tinker and shoot way more 6mm than any other cartridge. Then people begin to set records with it so it builds even more hype.
Exactly this, it’s the sum of all the parts plus cost effectiveness. Any caliber, ie 5.56, 6, 7, 7.62, and so on can be made accurate. It comes down to case design, ease of repeatability, and cost. Add hype and popularity contest and you get 6mm that sticks out.
My next interest is the .224 Valkyrie for all of the above.
It's actually pretty good for that. If the wind is normal it does quite well, even at 1000Y. If it gets windy that's when my 6.5 Saum comes out to bare it's wind eating teeth.
No question the 6BR gives smaller vertical than the 6.5 Saum, I'm amazed really, sheesh, I shot like 4.5" vertical for 12 shot at 1025Y a while back!
Some friends have Dashers, at the longer distances they definitely have an edge. They use 110's or 115's at the same speed I'm running 105's, and the regular 6BR is struggling in say a 10 mph wind when shooting against them.
Even so I think I'll do 6 BRAI next time. There's a sweet spot at 2920 - 2940 fps with 105's and it's easier to form cases. Well there's that 1.04" at 1000Y and a .282" at 600Y for 5 shot group records last year which is a head turner.
My interest in it is mainly 700 yards and closer.
I certainly could fill that role with a 223 but I want something special and I think 6BR May scratch that itch.
223 really gets spanked by the wind that far. I have been thinking of a small 6mm to run out the left over 6mm bullets from my 243AI.
Maybe just sell them get a quarter bore. Neck up the 6GT, and call it The Quarter Gay Tiger.
Maybe just sell them get a quarter bore. Neck up the 6GT, and call it The Quarter Gay Tiger.
I think the thing the winningest benchrest calibers have in common is a shorter/fatter powder column. Not sure why that makes them better, but it's probably something to do with powder burn like you said. A longer case has to burn the powder from the primer working its way forward toward the bullet but everything is moving as that happens, including unburnt powder. Shorter fatter cases can burn the powder working outwards, a more efficient burn less likely to upset things or allow minor inconsistencies.
6BR is a great choice for that IMO.
If the right powders are used, getting a 100% burn in a Dasher is a simple task. Shoulder angle, fat column, all play.
In Quickload, lower right number, Ballistic Efficiency, not many cases you can get much over 30%, the Dasher easily runs 33.34.5%.
Why would it become irrelevant?
In Quickload, lower right number, Ballistic Efficiency, not many cases you can get much over 30%, the Dasher easily runs 33.34.5%.
Why would it become irrelevant?
Interesting, never looked at that number before. Makes sense. Out of curiosity, ran the numbers on H4895 and 6BRA... 35% efficient. 6mm GT and Varget, 32% efficient. Straight 6BR is around 32-33% as well.
Lol, what is the gay tiger, I read about it, never saw a case comparison, or know what the parent case is?
With BR shooters, case fill, efficiency, total burn etc..., guys are pretty wise in their case choices, and I think some of them snicker at what we embrace, lol
Brand new case, brainchild of Gardner. Alpha is going to make the brass. Case size is exactly halfway between Dasher and 6x47, 40 degree shoulder, has a long neck like a BR, small rifle primer.
Honestly looks like a decent option if you aren't tooled up for Dasher. I might consider one after all my Dasher barrels/brass are shot out. Figure something like a DTAC at 2900fps would be a good conservative load, plus no fireforming.
Damn, thanks, I should have researched, all I've been seeing is parody on it, and the bulk of it is amusing. It may work.
just picked mine up from the smith yesterday....im going to run it for our tactical matches and my BRX for our long range varmint matches.
Hornady will once again standardize a BR/Dasher/etc. and it will be all downhill from there. Exact same thing happened to 6.5 SAUM/PRC, so on and so forth.
We all go crazy trying to keep up with the latest and greatest for what little returns we get from switching. Only problem is the cycle resets every ~6mos and begins again.
It’s especially humorous when the new shit coming out does literally nothing that other products/cartridges etc. don’t already do, but they have a cool name and better marketing attached to them so they get all the hype.
We all go crazy trying to keep up with the latest and greatest for what little returns we get from switching. Only problem is the cycle resets every ~6mos and begins again.
It’s especially humorous when the new shit coming out does literally nothing that other products/cartridges etc. don’t already do, but they have a cool name and better marketing attached to them so they get all the hype.
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Or a couple people start winning matches with X (even though they were winning before it, too) and everyone has to have X because someone is winning matches with it. They should be training with what they already have and get better with it instead of chasing the new widget/caliber/bag/whatever of the week.
The shooting sports is horrible with this. It's so cliquish that it's laughable. While the "what the pro's use" articles can be entertaining, people take those lists as gospel as "what is best" - yet clearly product popularity on those lists directly correspond to sponsorship trends in most cases.
It shows that sponsorship and marketing hype works. And it drives the group think rhetoric which is all too common online (especially bad on FB) which I hate. But all part of the game I suppose.
Too many purists rooted deep in Lapua brass, reamers, etc.. for Hornady to fuck this up.
I disagree on the "What the pros use" reflecting sponsorships (it's something I disagree with a lot of people on, but whatever...), but otherwise I agree at how silly it is that people chase trends. I'm still shooting the same action, the same caliber, and just newer generations of the same optic and chassis as I was running when I built my first custom rifle for the PRS.
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