Paris is Burning

[EDELWEISS]

I watched and waited for a report on the fire. I didn't have to wait long. The fire was still burning and we heard it was accidental. Is that really possible? REALLY? I get that they may have found what they are calling the "source"; BUT finding the source isn't the same as determining "cause" and "intent"?

I ask because this isn't the only incident at churches in France? Nor is it the only incident at churches that occurred this month.....and lets not forget the "intel" recovered from fleeing muslim terrs, which outlined new Paris Attacks. So the Holiest place in France is destroyed during the Holiest week in Christendom and its immediately ruled an accident....

 

[Veer_G]

Wow. More bear-pokin'? SMDH ...

 

[powdahound76]

From the Italian Job:

“You’re not the bright, are ya?”

Good movie. Between the souped up Minis and Theron its a win.

 

[Blue Sky Country]

Hey man, I think you might have missed the memo if you hadn't signed on in the last 2 days, but this is volatile territory we are heading into with this thread. Like open vat of nitroglycerin volatile...

 

[Strykervet]

I don't get it. His question is valid.

I read what LL wrote and I get it and I don't think this is what he's talking about.

As for the religious part, he's just stating fact, it IS their holiest week, isn't it?

What he's getting at is, is this a cover up or not divulging all the facts or actually an accident.

FWIW, nearly every fire ever started in one of these old buildings that did any real damage was started in the attic, either on purpose or by accident. And I can think of many possibilities of accidents in a building that old.

Also, and I could be wrong, access to the tops of these buildings is usually shut off. They don't want you up there.

I would imagine the fire started inside though because the top should be lead. Or originally lead. Maybe faulty wiring, leaking into a circuit, mice, old wiring left intact that shorted... Could be anything.

 

[Blue Sky Country]

I don't get it. His question is valid.

I read what LL wrote and I get it and I don't think this is what he's talking about.

As for the religious part, he's just stating fact, it IS their holiest week, isn't it?

What he's getting at is, is this a cover up or not divulging all the facts or actually an accident.

FWIW, nearly every fire ever started in one of these old buildings that did any real damage was started in the attic, either on purpose or by accident. And I can think of many possibilities of accidents in a building that old.

Also, and I could be wrong, access to the tops of these buildings is usually shut off. They don't want you up there.

I would imagine the fire started inside though because the top should be lead. Or originally lead. Maybe faulty wiring, leaking into a circuit, mice, old wiring left intact that shorted... Could be anything.

It's not an issue with the topic itself. But as the discussions regarding this subject proceeds, it is bound to attract a feeding frenzy, which in turn brings the phoenix eye and the time-outs. I am sure none of us wants to see the Bear Pit itself closed down because some people just can't have nice things and we all have to suffer the consequences.

 

[Srikaleak]

This is just a (conspiracy) theory and last I checked Frank loves theories. Or maybe only ones with Aliens. I'm way more curious on the plans to rebuild.

Where are they gonna source masons and carpenters? Rebuild or tear down? Where is the budget coming from? Who's gonna manage the budget? Down the line, what are the cost overruns gonna be? Will certain people bring up that this is a chance to build a more inclusive religious facility in the area, instead of one that caters mainly to Catholics? Will the French Gov't acquiesce to those people? So many questions and it will be entertaining to follow.

 

[Inifinty]

Wow. More bear-pokin'? SMDH ...

What is it that has offended?

There were some statements made, questions asked. There were a specific minority group made reference to without disparaging the majority to which they also belong.

Respectfully, where is the beef?

 

[j-huskey]

Beef, Aisle 12.
Tofu, Aisle 11.

Evidence we all want to see, damnifiknow....

 

[FS1]

Logic says, if they know its accidental, then they must know the cause. So why not say it?

 

[Veer_G]

From the Italian Job:

“You’re not the bright, are ya?”

Good movie. Between the souped up Minis and Theron its a win.

Here's part of the problem. Comparing that shit remake with the 1969 original is like comparing a jug of frothy piss to a cold beer. Just an inadequate referential frame.

 

[TheMammoth]

Wow. More bear-pokin'? SMDH ...

Do you have a PERSONAL interest in making sure people don’t consider that this was the culmination of a series of arson attacks or what man? Jfc. The guy didn’t say anything wrong and didn’t use any slurs.

Wipe the ball hairs and dna off your chin for fucks sake.

 

[Veer_G]

Logic says, if they know its accidental, then they must know the cause. So why not say it?

Evidence of the cause was either consumed way, way up in the air under the roof and steeple, or scattered all over the city block long floor in cinders. It's barely been 48 hours.

 

[Veer_G]

Do you have a PERSONAL interest in making sure people don’t consider that this was the culmination of a series of arson attacks or what man? Jfc. The guy didn’t say anything wrong and didn’t use any slurs.

Wipe the ball hairs and dna off your chin for fucks sake.

Why don't you just say what you mean, rather than dancing around with double-talk? Be a man, not a passive-aggressive insinuating little key-poker. Go ahead.

 

[Inifinty]

Evidence of the cause was either consumed way, way up in the air under the roof and steeple, or scattered all over the city block long floor in cinders. It's barely been 48 hours.

Doesn't work quite like that, or there would be a whole line of fire inspectors without a career.

 

[TheMammoth]

Why don't you just say what you mean, rather than dancing around with double-talk? Be a man, not a passive-aggressive insinuating little key-poker. Go ahead.

What was double talk about what I said? I think it was fairly blatant.

Why don’t you just come out and say what you mean instead of low key trying to shut anything related to the discussion down?

 

[Veer_G]

Doesn't work quite like that, or there would be a whole line of fire inspectors without a career.

My point here is that, given its importance, this isn't going to get a halfassed, cursory investigation.

 

[TheMammoth]

Evidence of the cause was either consumed way, way up in the air under the roof and steeple, or scattered all over the city block long floor in cinders. It's barely been 48 hours.

Oh well I guess we’ll just never know! It’s all just part and parcel of living in a big city in Europe now, eh?

 

[armorpl8chikn]

You know....
I called you as trouble weeks ago.
Glad to know I can still spot them.
Galdamned but you are retarded.

I would say you and a few others are trying to shut the fucking pit down.

The Boss has spoken. I can only assume that you are a bonafide shit stirring fool @EDELWEISS

 

[powdahound76]

Veer
Im not a movie buff and didnt know of the original. Will watch.

For yall who havent figured it out.
These topics bring out a lot of less than smart speech by many members.
Its not the reasonable discussion of such that is issue.
Its the stupidity that comes along with it.

Right after Lowlight’s big plan was announced probably isn't the best time to test the waters.

 

[TheMammoth]

At no point in time was the topic forbidden. Just throwing vitriol and slurs around.

Have there been any here yet? Not a single rule has been broken in his post.

What’s the issue?

 

[Veer_G]

What was double talk about what I said? I think it was fairly blatant.

Why don’t you just come out and say what you mean instead of low key trying to shut anything related to the discussion down?

So, you think that it's open season? Playing grab-ass in here is one thing. Pointed accusations with salacious insults is quite another. Reduction to absurdity.

 

[TheMammoth]

Veer
Im not a movie buff and didnt know of the original. Will watch.

For yall who havent figured it out.
These topics bring out a lot of less than smart speech by many members.
Its not the reasonable discussion of such that is issue.
Its the stupidity that comes along with it.

Right after Lowlight’s big plan was announced probably isn't the best time to test the waters.

Or its the best time. The people who want to throw forbidden terms around will be unable to help themselves and will get banned immediately. Solving the problem.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

To you other guys.
Until the real shit stirrers are cleared out. We won't be able to have a reasonable discussion.

I'm sorry. At this time this is poking the bear.

 

[TheMammoth]

So, you think that it's open season? Playing grab-ass in here is one thing. Pointed accusations with salacious is quite another. Reduction to absurdity.

Oh I’m sorry what salacious accusation against anyone did I make? ? please find the accusation. Are you paranoid?

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Or its the best time. The people who want to throw forbidden terms around will be unable to help themselves and will get banned immediately. Solving the problem.

Youve got a good point.

 

[Veer_G]

Veer
Im not a movie buff and didnt know of the original. Will watch.

For yall who havent figured it out.
These topics bring out a lot of less than smart speech by many members.
Its not the reasonable discussion of such that is issue.
Its the stupidity that comes along with it.

Right after Lowlight’s big plan was announced probably isn't the best time to test the waters.

Stupidity is coming out like cockroaches at night from under the baseboards.

 

[TheMammoth]

Stupidity is coming out like cockroaches at night from under the baseboards.

Asking wether anyone else feels like 11 churches burning in a short period of time is a hell of a coincidence is stupidity?

How you feeling? You doing ok?

 

[Inifinty]

Stupidity is coming out like cockroaches at night from under the baseboards.

I don't know, but to my sniffer your approach so far is not shining with integrity. It seems to me you jumped in and made this about something more than it needs be. I don't mean that disparagingly to stir a pot but in a constructive manner. I'm sure you have some valid concerns from your viewpoint but maybe that lens doesn't really apply here?

Where is the offence in the original post? We should be able to find a balance on the topic without going to the kiddie corner.

 

[Veer_G]

I don't know, but to my sniffer your approach so far is not shining with integrity. It seems to me you jumped in and made this about something more than it needs be. I don't mean that disparagingly to stir a pot but in a constructive manner. I'm sure you have some valid concerns from your viewpoint but maybe that lens doesn't really apply here?

Where is the offence in the original post? We should be able to find a balance on the topic without going to the kiddie corner.

See post #24.

 

[TheMammoth]

See post 23. Remove the people who refuse to keep certain verbiage under check after they’ve been asked and the problem goes away.

 

[Inifinty]

See post #24.

Well if you and the IronChicken have more intel into any history with the OP's posts AND are on target, then I apologize if I missed any context. I am coming at this purely from reading the text in the post #1 and failed to see the offence there.

It is actually a joy, in this day age, to push the bullshit aside for a change and work together with mutual respect.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

I'm all for a civil discussion, I'm all for an uncivil discussion within reason.
This guy has been here less than two months.
I've not dug real deep on him yet..hell...how deep can I go on a noob.
I don't trust people that ask me to "show your guns".
I just think he smells funny.
I do happen to be in the shit bidness too.

Then right after Frank has a dido duck fit. This guy posts an edgy post.
I'd love to talk about it. I'd also like to keep having a bear pit. Seems to me a cooling off period might not be a bad idea.

 

[Maggot]

Veer
Im not a movie buff and didnt know of the original. Will watch.

For yall who havent figured it out.
These topics bring out a lot of less than smart speech by many members.
Its not the reasonable discussion of such that is issue.
Its the stupidity that comes along with it.

Right after Lowlight’s big plan was announced probably isn't the best time to test the waters.

No shit, stop it.

 

[flyer]

Assuming they had a security camera system that probably should have had remote monitoring capability, they should have been able to locate the general location where the fire started if it was in a "public" area.

If it started in a construction area, they need to figure out if it was an inside job. Hopefully the church wasn't dumb enough to hire jihadis to renovate the place.

A good fire investigator shouldn't have much trouble determining the place where the fire started with all of the video footage and other evidence.

 

[deersniper]

Wow. More bear-pokin'? SMDH ...

Truth is racist right ?

 

[Veer_G]

Truth is racist right ?

Never let a good opportunity to grind your ax pass bye, huh?

People have agreed in the thread that this was too much, too soon.

If you don't mind, I've got much better things to do today than entertain your trolling.

 

[hic28]

Assuming they had a security camera system that probably should have had remote monitoring capability, they should have been able to locate the general location where the fire started if it was in a "public" area.

If it started in a construction area, they need to figure out if it was an inside job. Hopefully the church wasn't dumb enough to hire jihadis to renovate the place.

A good fire investigator shouldn't have much trouble determining the place where the fire started with all of the video footage and other evidence.

This^

That area of the city is covered in cameras, the fact that no one has released any of the footage is cause for concern.

Additionally, @Strykervet asked if there is access to the roof. Last time I was there in 2016, it was only a few Euros to get access to climb the stairs to the bell towers. They didn't even wand you, just pay your money and make sure you are wearing long pants.

Notre Dame has been constantly under construction in some form for the past 30 years. With all the other recent church burnings going on in france lately. I find it very hard to believe this was an accident.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

I tried.

 

[FS1]

Until there are facts there is nothing. If they knew it was arson they may want the perps to get comfy. So Stay quiet claim accident. If they knew it was an accident they would be showing the proof all over. Unless it embarrassed them. So I think the answer may be they just don't know. Speculation has no facts. I need facts.

 

[D_TROS]

I actually was shocked the PM committed public funds to rebuild. Until I realize it is a national symbol and tourist attraction way more than a religious venue. France has done their best to marginalize The Church to a museum/tourist attraction. Kinda sad kinda expected.

As a fire inspector/engineer, and with modern technology, they will be able to locate where fire started relatively easy and if any foul play, a culprit will spill the beans sooner or later. Nvr fails lol.

Conspiracy wise, and I love a good one as much as any of us, I would love to see the books on the budget for their renovation related to insurance and see the relation. Wouldn't be surprised if fire was intentional and am waiting to hear it was...ALWAYS follow the $$ is cynical...but true!!


Regards,
DT

 

[Sled]

I believe they have come out and said it was a short in a piece of equipment. Maybe it was.... but I also believe if it were arson related, we will never know it, they have already come out and ruled it accidental... and that's way to soon. Either way, it's going down as accidental. Too much anger to control if it wasn't.

 

[FS1]

Why was something so treasured left to fall into disrepair? Maybe that's part of the story.

 

[Veer_G]

Why was something so treasured left to fall into disrepair? Maybe that's part of the story.

Stop making sense. You're mellowing their harsh.

 

[cornhusker86]

No ins. money;

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/mar...o-insurance-policy/ar-BBW0isc?ocid=spartanntp

 

[TheMammoth]

Stop making sense. You're mellowing their harsh.

Yes you’re right. Tactical disrepair followed by um... repair(?) makes ways more sense than a series of fires at churches being a series of fires at churches that aren’t accidents.

?

 

[flyer]

Why was something so treasured left to fall into disrepair? Maybe that's part of the story.

The day they started repainting the Golden Gate Bridge was the day after they finished it. They haven't stopped since.

Some things just need constant maintenance, especially after 700+ years.

 

[TheMammoth]

Anyone who’s been within ten miles of ND in the last five years knows why there would be a series of church fires, and anyone familiar with the yellow vests and their anger knows why they’d never admit to this being anything other than arson.

The retaliation would be severe.

 

[cornhusker86]

https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/17/europe/notre-dame-fire-investigation-intl/index.html


Scrutiny has fallen on the firms undertaking the renovation of the 150-year-old spire, which collapsed Monday as the flames raged around it.

Of the four companies contracted to carry out renovations at Notre Dame, only two companies, scaffolding firm Europe Echafaudage and art conservationists Socra, had work in progress there at the time of the fire. Neither company had workers on site when the fire broke out, CNN has been told

 

[Inifinty]

Stop making sense. You're mellowing their harsh.

Wait a minute.. you just chastised someone for trolling you but then turn around and troll in general terms? How can you expect a functional discourse when responding in such terms?

Everyone has a viewpoint and those that feel someone is going after churches over there are likely right.

""Dobbs suggested the fire may be linked to a reported spike in church vandalism in France. “Perhaps overlooked since yesterday is 875 Catholic churches in France were vandalized in 2018—875,” he said. “In a single week last month, 12 churches were vandalized, including a fire deliberately set at a church also located in Paris. This is context, this is not speculation, this is the situation right now in France and the recent history of what has happened to Catholic churches throughout the nation.”"

https://www.newsweek.com/notre-dame...dent-islamists-fox-business-vandalism-1398879