Hello all, Just shot my savage btvs 22lr that I upgrade the stock and was shooting CCI standard velocity , Winchester super X, Remington golden bullets and some bulk ammo. The CCI shot the best .5" at 50 yards but what I could tell is that the CCI seemed to have less velocity. Which bring me to the question isMatch ammo subsonic and is that some of the reason the can shoot better?
- Thread starter Brian o 23
- Start date
I’d say, based on what you listed, the CCI just happens to be the better manufactured ammo. But the Eley stuff I shoot is defiantly subsonic and very accurate compared to the HV Match that I’ve tried.
the SK ammo seems to be some of the best shooting less expensive ammo right now....i think 9-10 guys in our club are shooting SK pistol match in several different types of rifles bolts.
Winchester, Remington, Federal, CCI do not manufacture high quality rimfire ammunition.
All of their production is hunting or plinking ammo.
They do not test the production for accuracy, only chamber pressure and function.
At less than 100 feet, they're adequate.
For consistent trajectories beyond 100 feet, not the intended usage.
Crappy ammo from a quality rifle produces crappy results.
No company produces quality hi-v 22lr. None. I've tried them all.
All of their production is hunting or plinking ammo.
They do not test the production for accuracy, only chamber pressure and function.
At less than 100 feet, they're adequate.
For consistent trajectories beyond 100 feet, not the intended usage.
Crappy ammo from a quality rifle produces crappy results.
No company produces quality hi-v 22lr. None. I've tried them all.
Almost all match ammo (Eley, Lapua, RWS) is subsonic running at about 1080 fps. Recent consumer demand has led to the introduction of hi-velocity (trans sonic at 1,126 fps) match ammo.
The RWS R 100 is the preferred cartridge of internationally successful match shooters. High velocities in the supersonic range and excellent precision make the RWS R 100 the first choice for silhouette shooting with rifles and pistols. Suitable at 50 and 100 m. Please inquire about the valid regulations of the IBU, when you want to use RWS .22 l.r. R 100 rimfire cartridges in biathlon. The bullet weight is exactly 2.675 +/- 0.005 grams.
•High velocity in the supersonic range
•Suitable for shooting at both 50 and 100 meters
•High precision in silhouette shooting with rifle and pistol
•Also an excellent choice for biathletes
Made in Stadeln, Germany.
Dimensions:
Bullet weight: 2.6 grams / 40 grains
Profile: Round Nose
Velocity:
Muzzle: 345 (m/sec) / 1132 (ft/sec)
50m: 304 (m/sec) / 997 (ft/sec)
100m : 277 (m/sec) / 909 (ft/sec)
Energy:
Muzzle: 155 J / 114 (ft.lb)
50m: 120 J / 88.5 (ft.lb)
100m: 100 J / 74 (ft.lb)
The RWS R 100 is the preferred cartridge of internationally successful match shooters. High velocities in the supersonic range and excellent precision make the RWS R 100 the first choice for silhouette shooting with rifles and pistols. Suitable at 50 and 100 m. Please inquire about the valid regulations of the IBU, when you want to use RWS .22 l.r. R 100 rimfire cartridges in biathlon. The bullet weight is exactly 2.675 +/- 0.005 grams.
•High velocity in the supersonic range
•Suitable for shooting at both 50 and 100 meters
•High precision in silhouette shooting with rifle and pistol
•Also an excellent choice for biathletes
Made in Stadeln, Germany.
Dimensions:
Bullet weight: 2.6 grams / 40 grains
Profile: Round Nose
Velocity:
Muzzle: 345 (m/sec) / 1132 (ft/sec)
50m: 304 (m/sec) / 997 (ft/sec)
100m : 277 (m/sec) / 909 (ft/sec)
Energy:
Muzzle: 155 J / 114 (ft.lb)
50m: 120 J / 88.5 (ft.lb)
100m: 100 J / 74 (ft.lb)
R100 goes subsonic at about 30 to 40 yards.
Verify with a ballistic calculator.
Mach at sea level is 1128 fps at 70 degrees F.
Verify with a ballistic calculator.
Mach at sea level is 1128 fps at 70 degrees F.
Yes, but it's still supersonic, 1132 fps, at the muzzle as per factory specs listed above.
CCI standard velocity is the only economical target 22LR on the market currently. WHY? Because I wouldn’t give any of my money to RUAG after the whole Prime debacle. The good about CCI standard is $25 a brick and not all greasy on your hands while loading.
I've seen a bit about RUAG and Prime.
Both are pointing fingers at the other.
Both seem to be arguing the case in the court of public opinion.
I have no knowledge of the actual facts other than the spin offered by each company.
Obviously a major contractual dispute.
Both are pointing fingers at the other.
Both seem to be arguing the case in the court of public opinion.
I have no knowledge of the actual facts other than the spin offered by each company.
Obviously a major contractual dispute.
Great feed back. any good sources to purchase match ammo?
Purchase true competition quality ammo?
Sure, the Lapua or Eley test facilities.
Purchase decent ammo?
Killoughs, Champ's Choice, Graf and Sons...plenty of on line retailers.
Sure, the Lapua or Eley test facilities.
Purchase decent ammo?
Killoughs, Champ's Choice, Graf and Sons...plenty of on line retailers.
@Brian o 23 Use ammoseek.com
Two good ones are Champion's Choice and Bruno's Shooting Supply:
Eley Archives | Bruno Shooters Supply
www.brunoshooters.com 
I got to wondering why hi-v ammo does so poorly.
Did a little close inspection of some plated hi-v ammo.
On many of the bullets from Federal, CCI, Remington, Aguila there are visible cracks/splits.
Some of the plating is peeling off, here's a closeup...
Think about a bullet with bits of plating hanging out from the nose of the bullet
zipping downrange at 1200 fps and spinning at over 50,000 rpm
and how that would interact with the atmosphere.
Each one of those bits of plating is a randomly angled fin, causing the bullet to stray off line.
There's the real problem with hi-v 22lr, not supersonic transition.
I think...
Did a little close inspection of some plated hi-v ammo.
On many of the bullets from Federal, CCI, Remington, Aguila there are visible cracks/splits.
Some of the plating is peeling off, here's a closeup...
Think about a bullet with bits of plating hanging out from the nose of the bullet
zipping downrange at 1200 fps and spinning at over 50,000 rpm
and how that would interact with the atmosphere.
Each one of those bits of plating is a randomly angled fin, causing the bullet to stray off line.
There's the real problem with hi-v 22lr, not supersonic transition.
I think...
@buffalowinter I would not choose to shoot R100 over at least 5C° / 41F as it is too slow for HV round. Meaning that it runs at the speed where it picks up more wind drift than its SV siblings. Not much though but it has its best battles in the winter.
Strelok calculations:
0.108 BC 40gr
110 yds 10mph wind -no spin drift counted in
==MV versus Wind drift==
700fps 4.4MOA
1050fps 5.1MOA
1120fps 5.7MOA
1200fps 6.3MOA
---
1470fps 7.3MOA (Around 1400 to 1500 it seems to be the worst)
1570fps 7.2MOA
1700fps 6.9MOA
1900fps 6.2MOA
2100fps 5.5MOA
At over 1500fps the BC will probably change maybe even drastically but you probably get the drift.. (pun)
With rimfire bullets slow is smooth and smooth is fast, atleast from wind's perspective.
Strelok calculations:
0.108 BC 40gr
110 yds 10mph wind -no spin drift counted in
==MV versus Wind drift==
700fps 4.4MOA
1050fps 5.1MOA
1120fps 5.7MOA
1200fps 6.3MOA
---
1470fps 7.3MOA (Around 1400 to 1500 it seems to be the worst)
1570fps 7.2MOA
1700fps 6.9MOA
1900fps 6.2MOA
2100fps 5.5MOA
At over 1500fps the BC will probably change maybe even drastically but you probably get the drift.. (pun)
With rimfire bullets slow is smooth and smooth is fast, atleast from wind's perspective.
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I've been using SK Standard Plus for training and SK Rifle Match for matches - they have the same spec and shoot identically almost always. Gun is a Vudoo V22 w/20" barrel.
I haven't tried sk standard or match but I play to purchase both.
