- Thread starter NoLegs24
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Had a look at a set of these today at DSC. Unfortunately, they were missing the final boards inside, so the electronics were non-functional. However, the rep told me the size, shape, weight, glass, buttons, reticle etc...were all what production units would be like.
It was quite large and fairly heavy, 4lbs IIRC is what he said they weighed. The reticle is etched in the glass, a crosshair that suggests precision aiming and ranging. Glass wise, I was not too impressed, nor with the focus, which felt a little too insubstantial. It appeared to me that these would definitely not replace a decent set of binos, so you would need to be able to add 4lbs to your current kit if you were a hunter.
As for price, I was told 9k.
It was quite large and fairly heavy, 4lbs IIRC is what he said they weighed. The reticle is etched in the glass, a crosshair that suggests precision aiming and ranging. Glass wise, I was not too impressed, nor with the focus, which felt a little too insubstantial. It appeared to me that these would definitely not replace a decent set of binos, so you would need to be able to add 4lbs to your current kit if you were a hunter.
As for price, I was told 9k.
I think people not happy with 500 yd wind aren’t looking at this the right way.
Most shots are <1000yds.
If you can measure the wind out to 50% (minimum, as the percent goes up the closer the target is), you’re crazy if you don’t think that gives you a HUGE advantage.
Obviously it’s not that big a deal for ELR, but for practical situations, wind reading up to 500yds is huge.
Most shots are <1000yds.
If you can measure the wind out to 50% (minimum, as the percent goes up the closer the target is), you’re crazy if you don’t think that gives you a HUGE advantage.
Obviously it’s not that big a deal for ELR, but for practical situations, wind reading up to 500yds is huge.
LIDAR wind reading "all the way" out to 500? Who gives a fuck. Buy a better caliber. Now calling Fudd central.
Fudd response of the year so far.
If you take the two shooters with equal ability and equipment and give them 1 shot at 1k.......
One gets his kestrel and his senses. The other one gets their kestrel and this that gives them exact wind out to 500 yds.
You do this 100 different days.
Which do you think will do better?
Not to mention, give this to a LE shooter. He gets exact wind reading to pretty much the entire area he may make and engagement where inches count sometimes.
Oh and it’s money for any .22 shooters.
Obviously this product isn’t for everyone. But it definitely ain’t junk.
Obviously this product isn’t for everyone. But it definitely ain’t junk.
I’m definitely interested. Gonna watch it for a bit and see how it plays out. There’s a reason I didn’t jump on the Terrapin X train right out the gate.
damn it, that makes my kilo 2200 another justasgood LRF. And here I was thinking I was hot shit.
Or, you can practice. AR15.com is calling, they're missing one of their idiots.
Lol. That’s it. Everyone trash their kestrels, range finders, modern optics, tripods, bags, and bipods.
All it takes is practice. Hathcock did it with a 30.06, an 8x, and no kestrel. So we should all do it.
.......your logic is impeccable.
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"Hathcock did it with a 30.06, an 8x, and no kestrel. So we should all do it." So what's your excuse then?
Didn't mean to ruffle your petticoats there Meal Team Six. By all means, buy whatever easy button solution the internet is selling this week. I'm sure that this will drastically improve your 200 yard game. However, if you keep trying to find satisfaction from things with batteries you'll probably remain as frustrated as your girl is now.
Didn't mean to ruffle your petticoats there Meal Team Six. By all means, buy whatever easy button solution the internet is selling this week. I'm sure that this will drastically improve your 200 yard game. However, if you keep trying to find satisfaction from things with batteries you'll probably remain as frustrated as your girl is now.
LOL
Yep. A lotta new posters, with some old registration dates, coming outta the gate, swinging like crazy from their keyboards/smart phones.
His comments are pretty funny, considering your rankings in some of the competitions.
Kinda like those Fudds in the Pit, calling me a entitled liberal. Lol! You can’t make this shit up...
Apparently, according to some it's impossible to embrace new technologies and practice old techniques. ?
Until two years ago I was running the Captain Caveman program except running the master race 260 cartridge.
No LRF
No kestrel for wind
Old bean bag
Knockoff Harris and real one.
SFP moa scope
And unfortunately no real dope cards.
I’m now actually considering getting a 5700.
I’m not going back without a fight.
Your LE and .22 examples are where this technology has the most value, in my humble opinion. Especially LE, where a life is on the line and inches count as you say. Especially in urban settings where large buildings can create some dramatic wind draft effects. Different story when you are a hobby shooter that's shooting a ~1-2 MOA steel plate at 500 yards with a centerfire cartridge.
At $8,000 (or whatever the cost is), I personally don't think it's a good value proposition for about 99% of shooters on here. Not for LIDAR to 500 yards. $8,000 would be much better spent on professional training, competitions and ammo costs for practice then it is for a device to tell you wind to 500 yards.
The technology is really cool, I'm excited to see how it evolves and gets integrated into our sport in the coming years. But for the vast majority of us on here, $8,000 is much better spent elsewhere to make us more effective shooters. Cool tech none the less.
Agreed. My point was that knowing wind to 500yds is a MUCH bigger deal than some are giving credit. Now, is it $8000 big a deal, no, not unless you have a lot of expendable income.
And my hathcock reference was to show what he did with the best technology at the time. Anyone working behind a rifle is going to take every advantage they can get.
But, stuff goes over many heads.
Let me guess, Trijicon will sponsor a few top shooters and everyone else will have to buy one just to keep up. This will only polarize scores and discourage new shooters. How long before the your 8 k wind reader will Bluetooth a real time heads up display next to the reticle in your 10 k optic? Might as well stay home and play a video game. I am all for technology, but there needs to be a limit in recreational competitive shooting. I do not think an expensive range finder / wind reader will make precision rifle shooting any more fun. Just more expensive.
Bang
Bang
Ummm...the Revic already has a HUD, but it's only $3k with BT. ?
Realistically though, you still need to know how to shoot.
While I don’t normally think you can buy skill (within reason, as better equipment will perform better in the right hands).......wind reading technology is a bit different.
You can literally buy wind reading skill. Hopefully lidar wind readers will not be allowed at matches.
Yes, kestrels have a wind meter, but it doesn’t do but so much and many top shooters rarely use the wind meter compared to the environmentals.
As with any game or sport there has to be limit (like no aluminum bats in MLB), and I think wind readers are that limit as far as electronics.
You can literally buy wind reading skill. Hopefully lidar wind readers will not be allowed at matches.
Yes, kestrels have a wind meter, but it doesn’t do but so much and many top shooters rarely use the wind meter compared to the environmentals.
As with any game or sport there has to be limit (like no aluminum bats in MLB), and I think wind readers are that limit as far as electronics.
@BANG...ping 's point is a valid one... But, I'll cross that bridge when I need to...
Actually, I'd love to have access to one, simply as a learning tool. I'd like to be able to go to a particular spot, make a wind reading using whatever tools I'd normally use, and then see what the wind is really doing (at least, for a paltry 500 yards). I've done similar with my Kestrel, and gotten a little better at reading wind speed at my location as a result.
And... it'll be interesting to see what unfolds with this technology over the next decade or so. There might be an affordable device on the market eventually as the tech becomes less expensive and more reliable.
Actually, I'd love to have access to one, simply as a learning tool. I'd like to be able to go to a particular spot, make a wind reading using whatever tools I'd normally use, and then see what the wind is really doing (at least, for a paltry 500 yards). I've done similar with my Kestrel, and gotten a little better at reading wind speed at my location as a result.
And... it'll be interesting to see what unfolds with this technology over the next decade or so. There might be an affordable device on the market eventually as the tech becomes less expensive and more reliable.
@MarinePMI I should just buy it so I can continue to hurt feelings....
.... and then charge people $X for a wind reading before there turn on a stage.
$5 per read, cash only. Oh the wind just changed direction? That'll be another $5. Clock is ticking, you want to be a winner, right?
Umm, you're confused, bro. Typically, however, I learn more from listening than speaking. Except when I see free-range bullshit flying around. Such as, it will really help out "LE shooters." I was being generous with my "200 yard game" comment. This Triji con will of no doubt be a boon to the 50 yard on in crowd. Oh, and .22 shooters. Your mileage may of course vary. And, for the record PMI, it's obvious that you're not an entitled liberal.
Yawn.
Take any top shooter out there (pick a name).
Take him around the country (or the world) to different ranges. Give him 1 shot at 1k. He has to make his own wind call with a kestrel.
Take that exact same shooter and give him the exact wind reading out to 500.
If you think that won’t result in exponentially increasing first round impacts (especially at unfamiliar locations), well, I don’t know what to tell you.
Take him around the country (or the world) to different ranges. Give him 1 shot at 1k. He has to make his own wind call with a kestrel.
Take that exact same shooter and give him the exact wind reading out to 500.
If you think that won’t result in exponentially increasing first round impacts (especially at unfamiliar locations), well, I don’t know what to tell you.
Apparently bro, you need to listen more. ?
At minimum it would be a great training tool for making better wind calls and building wind brackets without having to shoot to verify the condition with your rifle. You could do it at a park, in your neighborhood, wherever. It would greatly shorten the learning curve of correlating what you see and feel to an effective wind speed. Being able to use it a full 360 degrees is another advantage. It’s like dry firing but for environmental conditions.
To offer a counterpoint, we still don't know HOW accurate it can actually execute the wind reading. We are assuming it is 100% accurate.
Agree, there is always that caveat list also - it was too dusty, too humid, too much snow, mirage, etc.
At minimum I am sure Trijicon tested the piss out of it on a nice clear windy day.
I'd imagine the "wind value" is an average of the wind values up to the target or 500yds (which ever is closest). Since LIDAR is (essentially) the speed of light, it should be able to sample across the distance being shot, and then average out the "wind value". It does make for some interesting variables though, like what happens if you get a gust of wind (temporally), rather than a high wind value at one distance due to a break in the tree line, or wind passing in between buildings (geospatially).
It'll be interesting to see/hear how this things actually works in the field....
It'll be interesting to see/hear how this things actually works in the field....
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Because the 5k claim is in ideal conditions. In average conditions in all directions it’s a third. My Terrapin ranges to 4500 yards after sunset, BFD.
Hi,
When you are wanting MORE technology while at the same time attempting to dispute the use of another technology (Probably because of cost).....
Why do you need the Garmin to keep up with your target location in relation to your shooting location...just count your steps---DUH....
Sincerely,
Theis
D
Deleted member 113831
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Did you mean to quote my post? I'm not sure which of the two questions you are attempting to respond to.
Hi back Theis,
To be clear, I have no problem with technology. The advent of civilian accessible LIDAR seems neat. In fact, the use of improved calibers or ammunition (as I mentioned ) is another application of technology.
However, what I do reserve a big "fuck that" for is technology that is underdeveloped, underperforming. 500 whole yards of wind gizmo would be, in my opinion, an example of underperforming, especially when paired with an allegedly 5k rangefinder that is allegedly $8k-ish. Let me know when its 2.5k yard wind and 5k range...
This problem is similar to my criticism of the Foretrex 701, which I believe you were referencing. They got so close, but didn't/ couldn't take the final step to make it a truly unique and valuable piece of tech. Instead, they delivered a device that is a good ballistic computer and medicocre GPS that don't work well together making it an underdeveloped opportunity.
Irregardless, the 2 functions of this device are disparate, and based on triji con's description, I still give it a strrong "fuck that" and if 500 yard shooting is a challenge, then getting a better caliber and practicing more is probably better advice than obtaining another untried, expensive gizmo with underperforming or under developed functions.
Damn man, if I’m taking a 1200 yard shot & the first 500 yards of wind is free, I can’t help but think my margin of error is significantly reduced.
Nobody said the Ventus will do everything for you; 500 yards worth of free wind call is a hell of a lot more of a gain than you had last week at this time.
I’m not a buyer at this point either, but this could one badass training aid for learning wind. You’d be crazy to think this wouldn’t accelerate the learning curve. I’m not too proud to tell you that I get it wrong at times.
Nobody said the Ventus will do everything for you; 500 yards worth of free wind call is a hell of a lot more of a gain than you had last week at this time.
I’m not a buyer at this point either, but this could one badass training aid for learning wind. You’d be crazy to think this wouldn’t accelerate the learning curve. I’m not too proud to tell you that I get it wrong at times.
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I can recall an article I read several years ago on using lasers for wind speed and from what I remember it could not provide the vector, just the wind speed. It was up to the operator to decide direction.
I wonder if this is still the case or if they somehow got it to identify the vector.
You might say the wind direction should be obvious, but I disagree.
I can recall shooting across a valley some 900 yards away into a head wind during a match in West Virginia. Since I live in flat land I naturally held high to compensate, not considering the head wind would turn into an updraft bouncing off the hill in front of me.
So this is a case where unless the ballistic software can provide a full 5 axis wind vector, side to side or up and down, a device like this may well provide a false sense of confidence.
I wonder if this is still the case or if they somehow got it to identify the vector.
You might say the wind direction should be obvious, but I disagree.
I can recall shooting across a valley some 900 yards away into a head wind during a match in West Virginia. Since I live in flat land I naturally held high to compensate, not considering the head wind would turn into an updraft bouncing off the hill in front of me.
So this is a case where unless the ballistic software can provide a full 5 axis wind vector, side to side or up and down, a device like this may well provide a false sense of confidence.
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