OP, I have a pm2, and recently just got a zco. Is the zco better? To me, yes it is. Is it worth discounting my sb? Nope! The Schmidt is still an awesome optic! For what you can pick them up for you can’t beat them! If you want it I say go for it especially for the used prices they’re available for.
Rifle Scopes S&B 5-25 PMII Still a Good Choice?
- Thread starter Money Waster
- Start date
Doesn't the 5-25 PM II have an issue with tunneling?
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Yes it tunnels, but do you really ever find yourself using a PMii on 5-7x power? Its a precision rife scope not a LVPO.
i loved my s&b 5-25 so much I bought another one for a rifle I don’t have yet lol definitely worth the money imo
Optically speaking, how does it stack up to a ZP5? I'm not asking overall, just pure glass. Yes, I know, everyone has different eyes and will notice these things differently from someone else. Just kinda want to know if one seems significantly better than the other or if anyone has found them to be only marginally better/worse and not really a huge difference.
I have a ZP5 and starting to become somewhat interested in S&B.
I'm not a turret purist so I could care less which one has better turrets.
Don't look at weight so I could care less which one is heavier or lighter.
etc.
I have a ZP5 and starting to become somewhat interested in S&B.
I'm not a turret purist so I could care less which one has better turrets.
Don't look at weight so I could care less which one is heavier or lighter.
etc.
I went through the same dilemma ...I read..researched..talked to everyone I could with good optics.Finally I got to look through several really high end scopes all at the same day at same range..A S&B,Swarovski,Vortex Razor Gen II,Kahles, Athlon Cronus BTR 4.5-29x56 ,Primary Arms 6-30x56 Apollo, SWFA HD 5-25,,Leupold Mark 5HD 7-35x56 and a Valdada Texas Raider 3-25x50. There was no Night Force or Zeiss there at that time..I was disappointed in the S&B after all Id heard.. I will say this..I own a Kahles K525i, Athlon Cronus BTR and Valdada Texas Raider, Primary Arms PLx 6-30x56 …..And if I had it to do over again Id buy the Valdada TX Raider and Leupold Mark 5 7-35x56 … The Leupold 7-35x56bgives mynold eves a little more help.THe claritynon the Athlon Cronus BTR 4.5-29x56 And Primary Arms PLx 6-30x56 Apollo at $1500. are the best buys in my opinion for the money.GOOD LUCK
It's not a cheap scope. At that price are you asserting there aren't scopes of equal quality that don't tunnel?
I went through this a while back and bought my first S&B and I have never regretted it. Now I own 4 of them. Last week a few of the guys I shoot with did a side by side comparison with several higher end pieces of glass. And the PMii held its own... the ZCO might just be a touch clearer, if that is even possible... the Kahles was a solid 3rd and Razor was in 4th. But I will say at the price point a Razor is new or used it is no slouch and at the price I have seen Kahles go for used they are a no brainers... cant really go wrong with any of them, you wont see me parting with my PMII's any time soon that's for sure. 
What was the cost and how do you go about doing that? I sent S&B an email, but never got a response. What is the procedure for swapping out a reticle on a S&B.
7-35 atacr tunnels too. At least the early models I owned.
It’s a non issue. If you’re running at 5x enough that it bothers you, I’d suggest looking at a more purpose built optic like schmidt ultra short, k318i, or zco 420
The MX line are pretty nice. But in the same price range. The TX line, not even the same league.
I have had mine for over 10 years and love it. To me the best features of the S&B are (1) robustness, (2) quality of glass, and (3) the Pf fine reticle. I think to some extent scopes, like rifles and cars, are personal. But, I don't see how you could be disappointed if you got one.
@Money Waster if you’re close to East Tennessee by chance, I have a pm2 you’re more than welcome to look through, as well as a zco 527 to compare it to.
Bp214......I’m in Nevada, so that’s a no go. I appreciate the offer though. If I were nearby I’d definitely take you up on your offer.
Thanks
EuroOptic has some "like new demo" 5-25x56 PMII P4F for $2299.00. FYI, just snagged one.
Goes along with their buy a PMII (same model), get a Tikka TacA1 for $199.00 special
Seems like the same deal minus the Tikka.
Goes along with their buy a PMII (same model), get a Tikka TacA1 for $199.00 special
Seems like the same deal minus the Tikka.
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I love my PMII. I bought it used here for $2100, and it now sits in a spuhr on my AIAT. Before my PMII, i've never had a scope that could track and shoot out to 1000 yards. I've taken pokes out to 1 mile with this scope and it hasn't failed me yet.
I called S&B service center and talked to Jerry and he walked me through it on sending it in. Cost was around $895.
OUCH!!! Used to be around $300. Better to sell it and buy another scope with the reticle you want. Lol
I sent my 5-25 PMII to S&B in 2016 to swap a P4F reticle for an H2CMR. Back then it cost $550. Turnaround was 2-3 weeks and I emailed Jerry Ricker at [email protected]
The address to send to is
Schmidt Bender USA
204 McGhee Rd
Winchester, VA 22603
1 540.450.8132
Is the work done here in the states or is it sent to Germany?
S&B is Gold Standard
Definitely the best scope you can get in the 2k ranges.
S&B is the third best in optic manufacturer choice, to get better than them it’s north side of 3K.
Definitely the best scope you can get in the 2k ranges.
S&B is the third best in optic manufacturer choice, to get better than them it’s north side of 3K.
I would say $2500 to $2000 depending on the condition, recital and with or without locking turrets. I had 2 I sold on here in that about a year and a half ago
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So I was just playing with the new turrets on the SB DTII+ side by side with the TT and I have to say Schmidt definitely made a step forward with these new turrets. The super fine clicks previously are now spaced about identically to the TT and feel is excellent. The TT clicks are a little more positive but for the $$$ I'm loving the SB w/MSR2.
Have an honest question as a long time user of S&B, how much better is the ZCO? I mean in all aspects. Is it worth the trade? If so, because of what real criteria? I'm deep serious about considering this option but would be nice to have first hand accounts of real world experience. Thanks!
@Dthomas3523 @Covertnoob5 among others should have some insight for ya. Good question for sure. There have also been some great in depth reviews and comparisons done by @koshkin , @wjm308 and a few others (sorry escaping my mind right now). Frank also has a video online where he reviews the ZCO and mentions the SB briefly.
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I have a buddy with a ZCO and I own an S&B. For me, the ZCO turrets are a definite upgrade, very tactile and I don't question where it stops. I usually have to take extra care on the S&B to ensure it stops where I want. Parallax is more forgiving on the S&B for my eyes. To me, I can't tell the difference in glass quality, definitely can't if they're not side by side. If you want to use your free covid check than maybe its worth it but make sure you get a chance to compare it yourself.
Post a pic of your turret
To me, it seems like the eye box is more forgiving on the zco. As well as there isn’t any tunneling on the zcomp. The glass, while not very much still seems to my eyes to be better. The locking diopter is nice as well. The turrets do seem to be an upgrade like mentioned, there’s no question as to where it stops. I think the clicks are a bit more spaced out. The parallax is a bit more forgiving especially above the 300 mark. That’s just what I’ve noticed so far with my limited experience between the two. I will be able to post more once my spuhr gets here this week.
Depends on your purposes. I will never tell someone not to buy a zco, as I think it’s the best all around optic on the market unless you want a Horus reticle.
But, if you already own a schmidt, and are happy with the reticle.......comes down to use.
If you’re a hobby shooter off a bench or prone and the huge picture/eyebox, locking turrets and diopter, and better parallax aren’t something you absolutely need.....I could see an argument to spend the money elsewhere if needed.
But, if you move around a lot or shoot comps where all the above become exponentially more important, then it’s absolutely worth the upgrade.
But, if you already own a schmidt, and are happy with the reticle.......comes down to use.
If you’re a hobby shooter off a bench or prone and the huge picture/eyebox, locking turrets and diopter, and better parallax aren’t something you absolutely need.....I could see an argument to spend the money elsewhere if needed.
But, if you move around a lot or shoot comps where all the above become exponentially more important, then it’s absolutely worth the upgrade.
I’m not familiar with the ZCO. Can someone share a link to the model that is being discussed here?
Thanks
Zero compromise optics
HOME | ZCO - Zero Compromise Optic GmbH
Zero Compromise Optic (ZCO) is a true specialty scope company where our passion, dedication, and complete focus is building nothing but the highest quality rifle scopes. This can only be accomplished with the most modern and technologically advanced optical and mechanical designs which we have...
Thanks guys!Here you gohttps://www.cstactical.com/Zero-Compromise-Optic
Are there any good write-ups on these scopes? For me it all comes down to tracking, glass and reticle. I’d like to hear some opinions. The thing about the S&Bs is that they’ve been making these things for a long time, and one thing is certain in manufacturing, when you have done it year after year with high quality control, your product will work and it will be reliable. I don’t know anything about these guys.Here you go
I don't know exactly why, but I absolutely love the H2CMR PMII reticle. Just hate the tunneling on 5x. 14 mills per turn is odd, but usable.
Solid scopes, if you want one, don't buy and trade until you end up with one anyways.
For my money the Mark5 5-25 is a solid option, glass is solid, turrets feel great, and american made (yeah, the glass is imported).
I have a hard time with the S&B retail pricing, as it's close enough to a ZCO I'd make the jump up, and I can get a new mark5 for less than a used schmidt. Warranty on the Leupold and ZCO is lifetime, S&B is 3 years with service available after.
Solid scopes, if you want one, don't buy and trade until you end up with one anyways.
For my money the Mark5 5-25 is a solid option, glass is solid, turrets feel great, and american made (yeah, the glass is imported).
I have a hard time with the S&B retail pricing, as it's close enough to a ZCO I'd make the jump up, and I can get a new mark5 for less than a used schmidt. Warranty on the Leupold and ZCO is lifetime, S&B is 3 years with service available after.
How does a Hendsolt compare to the S&B, I don't hear much about them anymore.
Hensoldt ZF 3.5-26x56 Sand Riflescope
Hensoldt ZF 3.5-26x56 Sand Riflescope | Only at EuroOptic.com!
Would you like to guess why? No real options, and with TT & ZCO...
I recently got a ZP5 and I’ve had a 5-25 PMII for a while now. Honestly I can’t tell the difference in the glass quality. Both are excellent. Both are easy on the eyes during extended viewing. It comes down to controls and reticles for me. They each have their strengths and weaknesses in that regard.
Hendsoldt has effectively priced themselves out of the consumer market.
An outdated TMR type reticle and H59 on top of their ridiculous price. It’s not even worth talking about.
Schmidt retail pricing blows. I would almost never consider buying at schmidt at current retail prices.
ZCO is run by the guys that made NF/Kahles what they are today.
An outdated TMR type reticle and H59 on top of their ridiculous price. It’s not even worth talking about.
Schmidt retail pricing blows. I would almost never consider buying at schmidt at current retail prices.
ZCO is run by the guys that made NF/Kahles what they are today.
Why are locking turrets such a huge deal? I use my stuff pretty hard and have yet to spin a turret unless I was meaning to.
I’ve seen people spin one on a barricade or even carrying their rifle. My partner at mammoth a few years back spun his windage turret almost 2 mils and didn’t realize it until we couldn’t see any of his shots. While it may be rare it does happen, and I guess some people get a little extra piece of mind
Most anyone shooting matches long enough has rolled a windage turret.
You can even hear the current NRL season champ on a podcast mention rolling his turrets several times.
Yup locking turrets are huge for me. I actually rolled turrets a few times and it happened to be on my S&B. One time was while working the mouse trap at Rifles Only. Windage spun and I didn't realize it until two shots later. Locking windage especially is huge for me.
Guns and WhiteWater, what do you like about each?
