Annealeez with dirty brass?

[Wheres-Waldo]

So I’ve been annealing after sizing and tumbling brass, and am having consistent results going that route.

Almost anyone will say “Oh! You should anneal BEFORE you size your brass!”

I tried doing so last night and am Annealeez wheel will not continuously and consistently turn a piece of brass straight off the range.

Of those of you that use an Annealeez, are you cleaning your brass before annealing and AGAIN after you size?

SECONDLY...

What is the big advantage of annealing before sizing vs. after? As long as it is performed regularly, and it isn’t inducing any variations in dimensions of the brass, why should I be annealing before sizing instead of right before I prime, charge and seat bullets.

 

[A&8's]

II use an annealeez and clean with a tumbler. I was having cases not spinning consistent when I cleaned 1st. I contacted Jeff, the owner, and he said do not tumble prior to annealing, because fine dust stays on the cases, then transfers to the wheels.

I have found taking a Qtip with alcohol and clean your wheels prior to use prevents the cases from spinning. And tumble after annealing.

The advantage to annealing prior to sizing is the annealing softens the brass. Which creates and more consistent size. Also, soft brass moves easier (i.e., doesn't split or crack as easily during sizing.)

My process:

Universal deprime
Anneal
Tumble
FL size and bump shoulder
Trim if needed
Neck size with mandrel
Prime
Charge
Seat

 

[mbeavers1]

I'm a bit of a reloading rookie compared to some on here but to me the key is be consistent with your process but I believe before is better. Here is why:

1. The goal of annealing is to return each piece of brass back to its original stress state and reverse any work hardening - each process such as sizing, seating, and firing induce some level of stress on the brass which can change the mechanical properties.

2. One of the keys to accuracy is consistent neck tension. I want my brass to be perfectly consistent (or as close as possible) before I change the case neck. I want the neck to size and spring back the same way each time so when I seat my bullet I get the same neck tension. If you anneal between sizing and annealing, the brass may spring back differently after sizing. Annealing will not correct that.

I use an isopropyl alcohol/lanolin lube, which requires very little lube. After sizing I use a clean cloth and wipe each case before applying my dry neck lube. I wipe each completed round again after seating. I only tumble at the beginning after depriming but before annealing.

I wet tumble with SS media so no dust issues. When my cases don't spin, I use a cotton ball with isopropyl alcohol to clean the wheel. This usually fixes the problem but it's always temporary because I load in the garage and it just gets a bit of dust.

 

[Lunchbox27]

I have always tumbled before annealing. Each case does get wiped though with an old tshirt to remove the dust. No issues with stuck cases on my Annealeez.

 

[padom]

I always clean before annealing but before sizing and never had a problem to date..

 

[Wheres-Waldo]

I use stainless rotary tumbling and the brass is nearly surgical clean. I don’t have any issues running cleaned brass, but the few dirty pieces I tried definitely didn’t want to rotate.

The reason I’m not putting a LOT of stock into sizing after annealing is that, while I don’t KNOW, I wouldn’t image too much work hardening occurs after only one cycle of brass prep/shooting (Annealing every cycle).

If I can get dirty brass to run in the Annealeez, I’ll start annealing first.

 

[Dthomas3523]

I use stainless rotary tumbling and the brass is nearly surgical clean. I don’t have any issues running cleaned brass, but the few dirty pieces I tried definitely didn’t want to rotate.

The reason I’m not putting a LOT of stock into sizing after annealing is that, while I don’t KNOW, I wouldn’t image too much work hardening occurs after only one cycle of brass prep/shooting (Annealing every cycle).

If I can get dirty brass to run in the Annealeez, I’ll start annealing first.

Is the brass sizing to about the same shoulder bump every time with current method?

And how are you verifying your neck tension is consistent? As in, what are you using to measure?

As long as the shoulder bump is the same, and every fired case is expanding about the same, and your neck tension is consistent.......when you anneal in the process doesn’t matter much.

But if you aren’t taking those measurements or not using tools to properly check, you won’t know if it’s consistent or not in your process.

 

[skidhc]

I think the benefits of annealing are minimized if you size before annealing. My process is to wet tumble with SS pins prior to annealing, then lube and size, then a very short trip through the dry tumbler gets most of the lube off (I think leaving a little is good for several reasons).

 

[beenjammin]

Im new to this also. I decided to change my dies completely. I now use a decapping die only to deprime first, then clean brass, anneal, then size and trim. All my neck sizing dies are now in storage.

My concern with using the stainless media for cleaning is that if the brass is not 100% dry, would any residual water droplets inside the brass effect what the annealing is doing? I hear some pieces sizzling it off, but I dont think its causing any quenching effects to the brass since its not like dropping hot brass into cool water.

 

[skidhc]

Im new to this also. I decided to change my dies completely. I now use a decapping die only to deprime first, then clean brass, anneal, then size and trim. All my neck sizing dies are now in storage.

My concern with using the stainless media for cleaning is that if the brass is not 100% dry, would any residual water droplets inside the brass effect what the annealing is doing? I hear some pieces sizzling it off, but I dont think its causing any quenching effects to the brass since its not like dropping hot brass into cool water.

I have never tried to anneal right away after wet tumbling (always seems like it is at least several days later) so mine are always dry. However, I would not think a very small amount of water would be enough to do any quenching - the sizzling sound you hear is the water boiling off rapidly so no water there to do any quenching after brass gets hot.

 

[straightshooter1]

So I’ve been annealing after sizing and tumbling brass, and am having consistent results going that route.

Almost anyone will say “Oh! You should anneal BEFORE you size your brass!”

I tried doing so last night and am Annealeez wheel will not continuously and consistently turn a piece of brass straight off the range.

Of those of you that use an Annealeez, are you cleaning your brass before annealing and AGAIN after you size?

I've use an Annealeez for a few years now and I've always annealed before sizing. After decapping, my first order to business is to anneal my brass after each firing and then clean it so that the burnt on residue is removed that I can get less seating force. Though, if one lubes the inside of the neck before seating, then that residue is not an issue. (BTW: there's always burnt on residue whether you annealing before or after cleaning)


And at one time I did have an issue with the case not consistently turning and solved that issue by adjusting the flange that holds the case above that turning wheel. I bent it a little so that would have a little friction/force as possible on the case and I also took some emery cloth and smoothed the edge of that flange where it makes contact with the case. Now it turns very consistently.

SECONDLY...

What is the big advantage of annealing before sizing vs. after? As long as it is performed regularly, and it isn’t inducing any variations in dimensions of the brass, why should I be annealing before sizing instead of right before I prime, charge and seat bullets.

Annealing after sizing negates the point of annealing, which is to reduce the work hardening of the brass that sizing induces into it. So, annealing before sizing reduces the stress in the brass, AND. . . reduces the spring back of the brass to give you more consistent sizing dimensions on your brass (like when you're trying to bump the shoulders by .002 and get a consistent headspace fit).

 

[mbeavers1]

I think the benefits of annealing are minimized if you size before annealing. My process is to wet tumble with SS pins prior to annealing, then lube and size, then a very short trip through the dry tumbler gets most of the lube off (I think leaving a little is good for several reasons).

I just changed over to an Amp so I have been reading their website. They have done a ton of scientific research into annealing. It shows how consistent the brass can be through the sizing/seating/firing sequence by annealing first.

While I done see any tests showing the effects of before vs after sizing, it is interesting that ALL that in all of their testing that they anneal before sizing.

This is a very good read (part 4 specifically).

How Induction Annealing Works | Under The Microscope | AMP

View the latest articles from AMP Annealing. Get tips and tricks from our R&D. Here we upload articles to provide your the best possible information on innovations in the annealing process.

www.ampannealing.com

 

[spife7980]

Thats because annealing relieves the stresses, when the stresses are relieved they dont try and fight to go back to where they were as much (aka spring back) and the brass is more apt to stay where the sizing die put it.

 

[Darkside-Six]

I was always under the impression that you anneal before resizing otherwise it almost defeats the purpose.

I’ve been using an Anealeez For about the last 4 years or so. Annealing is actually the first stage of myprocess so unless the brass is really super dirty, I’ll anneal it right away.
Only time I need to clean the brass first is from my AR10 that is always fired suppressed so brass gets a little nastier than my bolt guns.
I anneal
FL resize
meet tumble
Trim
Chamfer/debur
Neck mandrel
Prime.
Works great.

 

[Wheres-Waldo]

Just tried annealing some more brass that came straight off the range... Cleaned the wheel with alcohol before eating starting.

Every piece I put in is likely ruined by sitting in the flame without rotating.

Im going to have to call Annealeez and see where I’m going wrong.

 

[straightshooter1]

Just tried annealing some more brass that came straight off the range... Cleaned the wheel with alcohol before eating starting.

Every piece I put in is likely ruined by sitting in the flame without rotating.

Im going to have to call Annealeez and see where I’m going wrong.

So, I take it you didn't try to adjust the space on the metal flange above the bottom wheel as mentioned that I did nor smooth the edge of that flange where it makes contact with the brass?

 

[Wheres-Waldo]

I took the flap off and deburred the edges, as well as polishing it up as much as possible with what I had on hand.

I continued to fuck with it until I scored the blue rubber on the wheel a bit to give it more grip on the cases and it seems to be working like a champ now.