beginning to do a sizable amount of combat carbine and pistol training with a close friend who is a combat trainer... I suspect that we between us will be using about 300 to 400 hundred rounds between us a week... that is a sizable amount of lead set forth in the air... and no, I am not talking about projectiles, I know I will get the wag on here who will say "well duck"... outdoor private range set up, not indoors... I am curious if any of you who train frequently have had concern for exposure, and what you attempt to do to limit it while still training
how many of you who train a great deal are concerned about lead accumulation?
- Thread starter hunter1959
- Start date
So how often did you eat paint chips while growing up?
If it's outside, and I was shooting 150-200 a week, personally I wouldn't worry about it. If it worried me I would have my levels checked every so often.
gotcha... thank you.... the guy who is the trainer applies caution himself... which is why I ask
I also reload about 100 rounds a week, but 6.5cr... the training is with 9mm and AR... can buy cheaper than I can reload them... the 6.5cr I run out of an AI AT.. so as I look at this thread, this LR comp sounds fun... but I haven't heard of a 1000 yard range around Gettysburg before.... would be good to have one
Lead exposure...outside?????
How long you trying to live playa we all gotta die sometime.... You might need some safer hobbies approved by the state of California that do not cause cancer
How long you trying to live playa we all gotta die sometime.... You might need some safer hobbies approved by the state of California that do not cause cancer
is this a tongue in cheek reply? I hope it is... otherwise take a long walk of a short....
I’ve shot probably close to a gazillion rounds of .22 LR in my life. Shot a few thousand rounds a week indoors for two years of college with twelve team mates doing the same on my right and left (I don’t think we had AC down there let alone circulation). I also shot high power, dabbled in three gun, eaten game shot with lead pretty much my whole life. I weld but I’ve never smelted.
My wife says I have brain damage but I’m pretty confident it has nothing to do with lead. I’ve never been specifically tested but my profession keeps pretty close tabs on my health and it’s never come up as a concern.
I’d probably cause cancer in California
My wife says I have brain damage but I’m pretty confident it has nothing to do with lead. I’ve never been specifically tested but my profession keeps pretty close tabs on my health and it’s never come up as a concern.
I’d probably cause cancer in California
Isn't everyone supposed to be wearing "masks"?? LoL! Just fun'n with ya! Good luck and have fun, wish I was you. Mac
ETA:
And by the way, he died of a heart attack. Beyond that, he was severely handicapped at birth, but that did not prevent him from becoming a living legend.
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You posted it in thefucking bear pit, dont go putting on the coy act now....
So Far I have survived lead in gas, lead in paint, lead in bullets, lead in fishing and have never given it a seconds thought.
The way things are going these days are really concerned about lead exposure?
Everything I've seen from best advice, the method of contamination, and those that have figured out how they got a high level is: hygiene. If you smoke, drink on the range, don't wash your hands enough, etc. then you are at higher risk, even outdoors. Organic lead compound vapor in the air isn't so dangerous. Landing on stuff, including your hands, then ingesting that, is quite dangerous.
Reloaders are much higher risk than shooters.
Casting is so high risk they should go ahead and do at least annual checkups forever to monitor it.
I know several folks who had to stop their shooting for a year or two due to lead levels, changed how they approached everything when they came back.
Me: did enough dangerous chemical work back in college* I guess so got used to procedures, and have a below-average lead level when blood tested for it. I don't even use special anti-lead wipes, etc. Just normal hand washing or wipes when in austere environments, is quite enough.
*I did printmaking, spent long periods in a room full of nitric acid vapors, enough I got sick from it, then made them get me a proper-filter respirator, and scrupulously used it from then out.
Reloaders are much higher risk than shooters.
Casting is so high risk they should go ahead and do at least annual checkups forever to monitor it.
I know several folks who had to stop their shooting for a year or two due to lead levels, changed how they approached everything when they came back.
Me: did enough dangerous chemical work back in college* I guess so got used to procedures, and have a below-average lead level when blood tested for it. I don't even use special anti-lead wipes, etc. Just normal hand washing or wipes when in austere environments, is quite enough.
*I did printmaking, spent long periods in a room full of nitric acid vapors, enough I got sick from it, then made them get me a proper-filter respirator, and scrupulously used it from then out.
Actually yes, I am, but more on the lines of direct injection into my bloodstream.
Bullshiiittt....
I was playing with oxidized lead ingots when I was a kid, and have been a regular handler of lead for over 40 years. There isn't a damn thing wrong with me.
I'm completely normal, here:
I was playing with oxidized lead ingots when I was a kid, and have been a regular handler of lead for over 40 years. There isn't a damn thing wrong with me.
I'm completely normal, here:
There was a nice little review published in 2017 of 36 publications in current medical literature penned by Laidlaw MA et al. (BLL = blood lead level, Pb = lead)
The following is copied from their abstract:
"RESULTS: Thirty-six articles were reviewed that included BLLs from shooters at firing ranges. In 31 studies BLLs > 10 μg/dL were reported in some shooters, 18 studies reported BLLs > 20 μg/dL, 17 studies > 30 μg/d, and 15 studies BLLs > 40 μg/dL. The literature indicates that BLLs in shooters are associated with Pb aerosol discharge from guns and air Pb at firing ranges, number of bullets discharged, and the caliber of weapon fired.
CONCLUSIONS: Shooting at firing ranges results in the discharge of Pb dust, elevated BLLs, and exposures that are associated with a variety of adverse health outcomes. Women and children are among recreational shooters at special risk and they do not receive the same health protections as occupational users of firing ranges. Nearly all BLL measurements compiled in the reviewed studies exceed the current reference level of 5 μg/dL recommended by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention/National Institute of Occupational Safety and Health (CDC/NIOSH). Thus firing ranges, regardless of type and user classification, currently constitute a significant and unmanaged public health problem. Prevention includes clothing changed after shooting, behavioural modifications such as banning of smoking and eating at firing ranges, improved ventilation systems and oversight of indoor ranges, and development of airflow systems at outdoor ranges. Eliminating lead dust risk at firing ranges requires primary prevention and using lead-free primers and lead-free bullets."
The following is copied from their abstract:
"RESULTS: Thirty-six articles were reviewed that included BLLs from shooters at firing ranges. In 31 studies BLLs > 10 μg/dL were reported in some shooters, 18 studies reported BLLs > 20 μg/dL, 17 studies > 30 μg/d, and 15 studies BLLs > 40 μg/dL. The literature indicates that BLLs in shooters are associated with Pb aerosol discharge from guns and air Pb at firing ranges, number of bullets discharged, and the caliber of weapon fired.
CONCLUSIONS: Shooting at firing ranges results in the discharge of Pb dust, elevated BLLs, and exposures that are associated with a variety of adverse health outcomes. Women and children are among recreational shooters at special risk and they do not receive the same health protections as occupational users of firing ranges. Nearly all BLL measurements compiled in the reviewed studies exceed the current reference level of 5 μg/dL recommended by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention/National Institute of Occupational Safety and Health (CDC/NIOSH). Thus firing ranges, regardless of type and user classification, currently constitute a significant and unmanaged public health problem. Prevention includes clothing changed after shooting, behavioural modifications such as banning of smoking and eating at firing ranges, improved ventilation systems and oversight of indoor ranges, and development of airflow systems at outdoor ranges. Eliminating lead dust risk at firing ranges requires primary prevention and using lead-free primers and lead-free bullets."
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A few hundred rounds a week is nothing. I’ve worked ranges for years where we sent tens of thousands of rounds down range a day.
Wash your hands when you’re done, sleep well at night. Nothing more.
Wash your hands when you’re done, sleep well at night. Nothing more.
Shit like that is written by those who want to bring ruin on us shooters and our way of life.
The cancer risk from the sun shooting outside is higher than the lead ingestion.
I'm sure all the anecdotes of "well I'm not an idiot" are worth something...
5 ug/dL is considered the threshold for "normal". ~10 ug/dL in your blood is associated with hypertension, cardiovascular mortality, and kidney disease. This is worse for kids and women, especially if they plan on getting or are pregnant. ~30ug is where risk of spontaneous abortion starts. So what's your blood level?
Firing range workers: 20-40ug
Firearms instructors: 40 - more than 60
Police officers: ~5
High school shooting team: 24
Adult target shooters: 25-60
IPSC: 20
Family of shooters ranges from 10-20
Basically it varies widely. For reference, people who have lead bullets remaining in them have levels ~5, the primer is the big contributor. Probably worth worrying about if you're (a) indoors, (b) occupational exposure, (c) a women/child.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
EDIT: I was beaten to it.
5 ug/dL is considered the threshold for "normal". ~10 ug/dL in your blood is associated with hypertension, cardiovascular mortality, and kidney disease. This is worse for kids and women, especially if they plan on getting or are pregnant. ~30ug is where risk of spontaneous abortion starts. So what's your blood level?
Firing range workers: 20-40ug
Firearms instructors: 40 - more than 60
Police officers: ~5
High school shooting team: 24
Adult target shooters: 25-60
IPSC: 20
Family of shooters ranges from 10-20
Basically it varies widely. For reference, people who have lead bullets remaining in them have levels ~5, the primer is the big contributor. Probably worth worrying about if you're (a) indoors, (b) occupational exposure, (c) a women/child.
Lead exposure at firing ranges—a review - PMC
Lead (Pb) is a toxic substance with well-known, multiple, long-term, adverse health outcomes. Shooting guns at firing ranges is an occupational necessity for security personnel, police officers, members of the military, and increasingly a ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
EDIT: I was beaten to it.
If your my age your teeth are full of mercury, we used to let it roll around n our hands in chem class. Now thats something to be careful with.
Exactly. The only guys that I know of that had lead issues were Tier 1 guys each sending thousands of rounds weekly, continuously over long periods, in a close quarter environment that had bad ventilation. These guys had unlimited millions in ammo budget paid by Uncle Sam.
So, unless you shoot and train as much as the Delta Force operator or Seal Team 6 CT guys in a close quarter environment, you should be fine.
perfect response, just what I was looking for... and a side note, one here suggest tumbling outside, which is my process... also masked when working with de capping... so from that perspective, I think we are good to go on my original posting... caution is a good thing... despite the naysayers and antagonizers... again, much appreciated with the real response
I had a quart jar of mercury when I was a kid we played with that crap for years lol
I do all 5 of these...chicken grease really gets the lead off
many thanks to those who chose to be mature and not juvenile in response....
I love warning lables on boxes like people don't know or did not know that smoking was bad for your health before the labels not that I plan to ingest any of my own bullets to press the issue . Though I did work with a guy in a chemical factory that loved to brag that he knew how to beat the mercury test so he could continue to keep working with the stuff to make chlorine gas . when his teeth and hair fell out they cough on to his game and promptly fired him not the smartest of fellows .
I used to carry lead pellets in my mouth while hunting as a kid! So far I’m still kickin!
Mostly because the OP question was shooting I didn't get into the other practices.
Aside from the things that likely spread particles like vibratory tumbling being done outside as you say, or in a vent hood (yes, seen folks make their own), best practice for reloading is a separate room, with a door, and full height walls, and think about how ventilation works so you aren't spreading stuff through ducts to the rest of the house. Wash before leaving. If no wet sink, wipes to leave, wipe feet to avoid tracking to the carpet, etc. Some folks wear a boiler suit over their clothes, take it off and hang it on a hook inside the room even. Just think through contamination protocol. And after just days it becomes second nature, not that burdensome.
If kids in the house: double up on all procedures and they never, never even go into the reloading room. Assume it's contaminated, and kids are awful at putting dirty things in their mouth. Kids also don't follow orders, so put a lock (sliding latch too high, kid safe doorknob...) on the door.
In case even a few of the above comments are not jokes:
Also often confusing: Metallic lead is not dangerous. Bullets left behind in your body will not generally cause lead poisoning.
Lead compounds are dangerous. Lead forms surface oxidization rapidly in the air, so the dust from lead, the salts and other compounds formed on the outside of bare lead bullets, and the residue from firing (including primer compounds) are the bad things.
The bits you touch and breathe as it turns out! It's counterintuitive that the tiny bits that are like dirt, and the nearly invisible vapors are dangerous but not the big block of metal.
You will be fine! That’s nothing. Any idea how much some people shoot? Take Jerry mucilek for example. Trust me you’ll be fine.
The majority of lead you’ll be exposed to OUTSIDE is on the ground when setting up the range. Since I worked on ranges that deal with small arms and explosives, you get those industrial hygienist who say to take off your boots before going into you vehicle and home at a minimum, mostly to protect children. Idk I’ve been doing it for 20 years with cope wintergreen horseshoed in my mouth and I’m fine so 
Exposure
no food nor drink on the range
No picking nose on the range
they make lead removal soaps and wipes for ranges
or bring a bar of lava water and paper towels for post shooting clean up
There is a hand soap called D-Lead. It’s designed to remove heavy metals
Buy a gallon, put some in an empty Purell container, add to range bag
Wet hands - soap up- rinse
you really don’t want your steering wheel covered with lead from your hands
D-Lead Abrasive Hand Soap, 4229ES-001 (1 Gallon) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07KBDYVFY/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_RL48Eb2QSGHKZ
Walmart.com and some stores carry D-Lead
— gloves when cleaning the guns too
www.cdc.gov
no food nor drink on the range
No picking nose on the range
they make lead removal soaps and wipes for ranges
or bring a bar of lava water and paper towels for post shooting clean up
There is a hand soap called D-Lead. It’s designed to remove heavy metals
Buy a gallon, put some in an empty Purell container, add to range bag
Wet hands - soap up- rinse
you really don’t want your steering wheel covered with lead from your hands
D-Lead Abrasive Hand Soap, 4229ES-001 (1 Gallon) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07KBDYVFY/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_RL48Eb2QSGHKZ
Walmart.com and some stores carry D-Lead
— gloves when cleaning the guns too
Page No Longer Available
www.cdc.gov
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I would be more concerned about possibly catching a few hundred grains on the way TO the range far more than a bit of dust AT the range.
I load and shoot a decent quantity of cast bullets each year. I have my levels checked every other year. Never taken any specific precautions and never been close to a level of concern. As long as you're not picking your nose and eating it, you should be fine. Also, doc told me it's easy to absorb via the genitals, so officers are safe.
hopefully, you all see the relevance of the issue... and the variety of responses range from serious to sarcastic... we don't do this to cause ourselves the harm that we necessarily intend for those who deserve it when the time comes... caution and moderation in everything... my introduction to the shooting sports began with at the age of 10 with my WWII combat veteran father.... never did he discuss the issues of airborne lead and chemical contaminants, they weren't concerned nor did they even have a thought of the potential.... yet he died of lung and liver cancer years later... had also suffered mastoid process and breast cancer years before... the oncologist studied it, and asked me if he had been involved in the crossing of Europe with the 3rd Army... and he had..
Best to not treat it nonchalantly or with complacency... don't stop, but consider it
Best to not treat it nonchalantly or with complacency... don't stop, but consider it
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