No school in your area, you should get a tax rebate. Class action suits need to started in every school district, that do not hold regular classes!!!
No school should = a refund
- Thread starter Gunfighter14e2
- Start date
Are the teachers still getting paychecks?
Taxes and tattoos have something in common. They are there for life.
Taxes and tattoos have something in common. They are there for life.
Even if they are lets do some math...
In my city, im going to guess there are 1000 school employees(not just teachers, but custodian, bus drivers, etc...). I might be off on that number. Im also going to assume the average salary is 50k. So 50 million in salary.
Population in the city is ~40k. Lets say 15k of that pays property taxes(where school tax here in Texas is generated). The average property tax bill is probably $7k and about 90% of that goes to the schools(our real estate tax rate is 2.5% with ~1.5% of that being the ISD(independent school district) tax. Lets say 6k for simple math goes to the school . Thats 90 million....
So a 40 million difference... Buildings are all bought and paid on a bond so they dont have a mortgage and most of the bonds in my city except one have been paid off for years. If schools arent operating the utility bills should be all but non-existent so for arguments sake I wont include them.
So lets go back to my 40 million number, divide that back out to the 15k tax payers, and everybody gets a check cut to them for almost 2700 bucks...
Now im sure my numbers arent quite correct... and I also know real estate tax revenue isnt the only revenue stream for the schools, but even if all the employees are still being paid their full salary, there is still a chunk of money that could be returned to the taxpayers.
I don't know if you ever learned about this, but there is this thing called summer break. It usually runs from sometime in May to some time in August.
I don't know how it is there, but up until summer break teachers were still working with students online.
Teachers are still getting paid here because there 10 months of salary is divided up and paid over a 12 month time period.
Of course they could have been sent home without pay, but then they would not have continued to do their job from home, and we would have paid for their unemployment plus 600 per week COVID payment.
Next year they are expecting 25% budget cuts to the schools in Colorado, due to the tax shortage from the shut down. Sue them.
I don't know how it is there, but up until summer break teachers were still working with students online.
Teachers are still getting paid here because there 10 months of salary is divided up and paid over a 12 month time period.
Of course they could have been sent home without pay, but then they would not have continued to do their job from home, and we would have paid for their unemployment plus 600 per week COVID payment.
Next year they are expecting 25% budget cuts to the schools in Colorado, due to the tax shortage from the shut down. Sue them.
Is anyone surprised the tearcher's unions want less work, yet more pay and more benefits? That is ALWAYS the case with them. They are always underpaid, overworked, and underappreciated (according to them).
Considering they are in great part responsible for the social strife occurring in our country right now, due to their leftist indoctrination of students over the last few decades, FUCK THEM.
Considering they are in great part responsible for the social strife occurring in our country right now, due to their leftist indoctrination of students over the last few decades, FUCK THEM.
So the schools here locally are supposed to open back up in the fall. However, the teachers union came out and said that teachers will not be coming back this fall. Lol. Not sure what the latest is on that.
I have a number of friends that are teachers and they have been preparing this summer for both online and in-class options. They are working, at least in my area. However, I will say that I do not put up with their "my job is so stressful/difficult/long hours" bs. You cant take that amount of time off and come to me when I am working 60-70+ hours a week and tell me you have it hard. And none of them offer to help me more than once when they have their summer recess. And I don't want to hear about their "low pay". Lots of people make the same pay and work MUCH harder. I do, however, have a ton of respect for the teachers that do their job well and don't complain about the hours or pay. Everyone knows the score when they go into a career so there is no need to bitch about it. Don't like it? Get out and go find another gig.
Why stop there? NO EXEMPTIONS for anyone. NO tax free churches, charities, non-profits. Somebody always makes profits...! No Tax write-offs! Corporations make money for SOMEBODY! Corporations should be taxed as well! I am sure many of you can think of other examples.
If you are NOT a millionaire, you are getting screwed.
If you are NOT a millionaire, you are getting screwed.
You realize you pay the corporations taxes, right? When you buy their products or services? It's all in the price.
Just about every tax raise we are asked to approve is "for the children". That is often accompanied with the pie chart showing the bulk of real estate taxes going to the schools infrastructure, lamenting how poorly paid the teachers are in sacrificing to do their jobs.
Give me a tax cut than if the kids don't go back.
Lost in all the debate seems to be the cost to parents in arranging day care if the kids are not off in some school system.
We are seeing the destruction of our school system, probably not a bad thing, and a serious crimp in the future opportunity of this generation.
Give me a tax cut than if the kids don't go back.
Lost in all the debate seems to be the cost to parents in arranging day care if the kids are not off in some school system.
We are seeing the destruction of our school system, probably not a bad thing, and a serious crimp in the future opportunity of this generation.
Look at it this way.
The kids school just came home.
You can now stop paying for supplies that are taken from your children by communists and distributed to backsliding Democrats in training.
You can now monitor and review the course and hold them responsible for thier communist lies and subversion of facts and history.
You now have the opportunity to stop the sjw agenda in your house.
My son, I think in the second grade at the time called bullshit out loud on a teacher trying to rewrite the second amendment.
I had a talk with the principal that wanted to punnish my boy.
He asked how I knew my so was right? You fucking kidding me I asked and pointed to a huge copy of the Constitution on the wall behind him.
Told him to get his commie hen house in line and if my son had anymore problems It was going to be personal between him and I and quoted his home address to him.
Any complaints should immediately be taken to state level or better yet see if you can find a news agency to out them on.
The kids school just came home.
You can now stop paying for supplies that are taken from your children by communists and distributed to backsliding Democrats in training.
You can now monitor and review the course and hold them responsible for thier communist lies and subversion of facts and history.
You now have the opportunity to stop the sjw agenda in your house.
My son, I think in the second grade at the time called bullshit out loud on a teacher trying to rewrite the second amendment.
I had a talk with the principal that wanted to punnish my boy.
He asked how I knew my so was right? You fucking kidding me I asked and pointed to a huge copy of the Constitution on the wall behind him.
Told him to get his commie hen house in line and if my son had anymore problems It was going to be personal between him and I and quoted his home address to him.
Any complaints should immediately be taken to state level or better yet see if you can find a news agency to out them on.
My mortgage went up about $150/month to cover the escrow account that pays the insurance on the house and the property taxes, because they're going up... again.
Most of it, to the tune of about $2k+ goes to school taxes. The schools are closed, and shit, we don't even have kids.
Why am I paying for shit that not only I'm not using, but nobody else is using it either?!
Edited to add, maybe if parents had to pay all the property taxes amongst themselves and no kid households were exempt, it would incentivise people to make sure their kids try harder in school, cause sending them isn't 'free' anymore.
Maybe people would have less kids, not a bad thing either.
Most of it, to the tune of about $2k+ goes to school taxes. The schools are closed, and shit, we don't even have kids.
Why am I paying for shit that not only I'm not using, but nobody else is using it either?!
Edited to add, maybe if parents had to pay all the property taxes amongst themselves and no kid households were exempt, it would incentivise people to make sure their kids try harder in school, cause sending them isn't 'free' anymore.
Maybe people would have less kids, not a bad thing either.
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Teachers generally complain about low pay relative to the education requirements of the job. Which are not get a degree and you are set for life. You must continue to get a certain amount of credits per year, and update training to maintain your teaching license. So a comparison they would use would be, a teacher with Masters makes less than a nurse with Masters. Or a teacher with BA makes less than a police office who completed a 6 month course.
IMO: A big portion of the problem has become how much money we force them to put into their education.
So did the property owners get a refund on what it cost to operate the busses, HVAC the buildings, the insurance they did not have to carry for the kids, ect? Those costs are huge by the way,....
I hear what y'all are saying and agree with most of it. But refuse to pay taxes and see what happens. Unless there is a consortium of the overwhelming majority of taxpayers, nothing will change. The governments will be pretty forceful about this as this is a golden opportunity to make up the shortfalls in school district budgets and probably bail out 15-30% of them...
I understand that side of the argument. But there really is no comparison. A nurse works 12 months out of the year. A teacher does not. That alone should account for the pay difference. Both the nurse and the teacher know full well what the education requirements are and the costs associated with those careers are. Its not hidden. If they cant do a basic ROI calculation that's on them. I shouldn't have to pay more because a teacher can't do math.
I'm not trying to run down teachers. We need good ones. I do get pretty pissy about teachers unions demanding more pay, fewer hours, more benefits and teachers protesting at state capitols when in all reality a lot of it has to do with them no longer liking what they agreed to when they took the job. Instead of finding another job or living within their means (!!!!!) they decide to get vocal about their bad choices. Not good. We live in a capitalistic market and there are always options; choosing to not exercise those options and instead just stay in place is their fault and goes nowhere with me.
The teachers were and are still working in the buildings, so is the custodial staff, and the administration, as they always do over summer break. Insurance premiums did not go away because of the lockdown. They were billed and expected to be paid. Bus use, for last year was already budgeted, what will be left over will be surplus budget. What we will have starting next year is 25% cut to the budget because of the loss of tax revenue due to the shutdown. So if you think everyone kept on paying the same taxes that support schools, you are mistaken.
Locals set the property tax rate, locals can be voted out of office for failing to adhere to the local voting public. Locals who are voted in run the school districts. Good people need to get involved or quit bitching that there can be nothing done, everything starts locally.
My sister in law is an RN. She worked 3 days per week before having kids. That is 160 days per year. The teachers in this district get 159 day contracts.
The rest of your post is really just a simplistic view of how things work. And the problems are much more complicated than simply, they should have added up the cost of college, or they should live within their means.
College should have never been allowed to get so expensive in the first place. The way college got expensive is socialist, not capitalist. As soon as the government guaranteed loans, the price began to rise and rise. Then they were given a monopoly on a degree, which became a way to hold jobs hostage until people pay. So when I say the cost of education has become one of the problems. I am talking about for everyone, not just teachers.
Have you never asked for a raise? I have and I usually got it.
Another cost that has been added over the course of the last 20 years or so are the number of teachers that have been added to handle "special needs" kids and ESL students. My daughter is in the education field (used to teach in a classroom), but has now moved into the management side of education to try and change some of the policies and agendas of local government that make it difficult for teachers to do their jobs. There have been so many levels of "management" that have crept into our public schools that all want their hands in the cookie jar as well.
When my daughter told me she wanted to be an educator, my first reaction was to telling her she better find a guy that makes a decent living, because you can't survive on what teachers make. My DIL is a RN with the same level of education as my daughter, and makes 25K more per year working less days per year.
When my daughter told me she wanted to be an educator, my first reaction was to telling her she better find a guy that makes a decent living, because you can't survive on what teachers make. My DIL is a RN with the same level of education as my daughter, and makes 25K more per year working less days per year.
See, I'm thinking your view is overly complicated, but I may be missing something. I have worked as an EMT and I can tell you that a lot of nurses work a shit-ton of OT, are on their feet all day, deal with assholes spitting on them, cussing them out, blood, feces and all manner of things associated with human health. Teachers could wear the same clothes a couple days in a row.
Yes, they ABSOLUTELY should have added up the cost of college in their life choices precisely because it IS stupidly expensive. I agree with your assessment of higher education and the costs. Some careers are made prohibitively expensive because of the initial college investment. However, there are ways around it - going to a cheaper college, get the basics at a junior college, etc. Buying an expensive diploma for a medium-pay career is not wise, and I'm not sure how we as taxpayers should be expected to foot the bill for a bad investment decision or poor post-college lifestyle choices. This all goes back to personal responsibility and budgeting. There simply is no getting around that.
Yes I have asked for a raise, and I did get some of them. But I didn't protest in the hallways with other workers those times when I didn't get it. I either dealt with it or found new employment. That's just life.
If you think things are simple, you are wrong. Teachers also get spit on, cussed out, assaulted, threatened, change diapers. You are attempting to apply the same blanket to everyone. Life is not that simple.
The teachers in our district have never went on strike, in fact they can't, their contact would just be nullified and someone else would be hired. See your local school boards are the ones who let it get set it up so teachers can strike. Our teachers also got a long awaited raise this year. The big district anyway. The very small schools will be cutting transportation and positions to make top for the budget cuts from the lockdown. It may close some of the very small schools.
These nurses that put in boo koo overtime. Where? How long have they been doing it? Are the RN or CNA? How many ours? I know you don't know, its anecdotal. People like to talk about how long their hours are and how hard they work. People like to exaggerate.
Adding up the cost has not one thing to do with the problems that made it so expensive. You aren't done when you have your degree and teaching license. You must get a certain amount of credits per year to maintain your teaching licenses. Sometimes you can find classes for free, put on for teachers, but it still comes out of your own time and is not part of your 159 days. And that is days not hours. Go in a 7am, work your job, go home for an hour, go back and work the gate at a football game until 10pm, chaperone prom until midnight, or drive the kids four hours away for knowledge bowl after school. That is 1 day, no OT.
The teachers in our district have never went on strike, in fact they can't, their contact would just be nullified and someone else would be hired. See your local school boards are the ones who let it get set it up so teachers can strike. Our teachers also got a long awaited raise this year. The big district anyway. The very small schools will be cutting transportation and positions to make top for the budget cuts from the lockdown. It may close some of the very small schools.
These nurses that put in boo koo overtime. Where? How long have they been doing it? Are the RN or CNA? How many ours? I know you don't know, its anecdotal. People like to talk about how long their hours are and how hard they work. People like to exaggerate.
Adding up the cost has not one thing to do with the problems that made it so expensive. You aren't done when you have your degree and teaching license. You must get a certain amount of credits per year to maintain your teaching licenses. Sometimes you can find classes for free, put on for teachers, but it still comes out of your own time and is not part of your 159 days. And that is days not hours. Go in a 7am, work your job, go home for an hour, go back and work the gate at a football game until 10pm, chaperone prom until midnight, or drive the kids four hours away for knowledge bowl after school. That is 1 day, no OT.
You are missing my point, so I will say it more succinctly: Everyone makes a decision to work at their chosen job for pay they find acceptable. That is to say, If you work at a job then on a very primary level you have found the pay and workload acceptable. If not, leave the job. It really is that simple. This is basic microeconomics and we all make this decision multiple times in our lives. I don't see why this is so complicated to understand. Either you find the job acceptable or you don't; and at the point you don't find it acceptable you cue up Johnny Paycheck and roll on. If you hate your job but don't leave it then that means having that job is somehow better emotionally than the options you want to choose (usually fear). But doesn't mean that there aren't options.
Like I said earlier, my beef is not with those who do the job well. I don't appreciate those who take the job and bitch about it. I don't appreciate that characteristic in any person, primarily because they don't work at their job diligently and others have to pick up the slack.
Like I said earlier, my beef is not with those who do the job well. I don't appreciate those who take the job and bitch about it. I don't appreciate that characteristic in any person, primarily because they don't work at their job diligently and others have to pick up the slack.
My house that I just listed had the taxes go up $800.
The inbred twp folks didn't understand the difference between new levy and renewal.
The inbred twp folks didn't understand the difference between new levy and renewal.
Having less kids will actually be the doom of us all because other groups are not slowing down on breeding but speeding up. So, if you want your people to remain a voice you have to have reproduction. Just ask some countries like Italy when everyone ages out. one reason Covid was so bad for them is because the majority of Italy’s pop is older. No kids can be a bad thing and is one reason white people will likely be a minority in like 50 years.
This continued education crap excuse for more pay pisses me off because most of the people that use it somehow think that they are the only ones that have to do this. Every job I’ve ever had requires that you constantly stay up to date and learn new things or programs or whatever. If you don’t you will fall behind and be lucky if they keep you on for the same pay you had. It sucks and I think it’s a major win for employers because they don’t typically pay for it, either by sending you somewhere or by paying for the hours you use outside of work to learn on your own. There are exceptions of course, like aviation mechanics and a slough of other things that most of the time the company sends and pays for your continued education but there are just as many jobs out there where employers don’t. It sucks for everyone. It’s not just a teacher thing, I’m sorry.
It is a simply as leaving a job but it’s not really that simple. If you are the sole provider and let’s be honest, most families require two people to wrk to make ends meet these days, it’s not quite as simple as just leaving. I mean you can but there are lots of considerations. Location, costs, insurance changes, benefits changes, travel time, it will in most cases literally effect everything you do. It’s not an easy decision or move to make unless it’s to the better of your current situation. Let’s say you hate your job, you want to try something new, but you are mid 40’s only have two degrees, know you don’t want to work in those fields. What do you do? You either take a job making less money and benefits somewhere and hope someone gives you the chance to train you up in some skill set. Or, you go back to school for something which will cost you a shit ton of money. Oh and just because you get the degree doesn’t mean you will be any better off or like it any better or even be treated better unless you simply become you own boss. If you got back to school then how are you going to pay for it, raise a family, work a job while doing it and so on in your mid 40’s. Can it be done? Sure. Is it easy? No. Will the pay off be worth it? Not always. And if it’s not you might be $200k farther down a hole than you were. Most people don’t have a couple hundred grand or even $50k laying around to pay to go back to school. If anyone has done the above and simply moved to a new job that was wonderful and paid them handsomely and so on, then bravo, you better count your blessings because that doesn’t happen to most people.
PS Most people don’t have a job that they like. I had one for 10 years that was phenomenal. Enjoyed every minute of it. I was blessed to have it that long. I’m also blessed to have the one I currently have. Depending on your field some jobs are super difficult to get. In fact, the only way I have my current job is through the grace of God. The competition in the field I choose to be in is so steep, I’d literally have better chances of getting drafted into the NFL than getting a position in my field these days. So my point to all of this is, most people need to count their blessings.
Another thing I have noticed, which I think is crazy, is that too much experience and too much education is apparently a bad thing. I couldn’t tell you why as you’d think it was the opposite but employers seem to frown upon it, from my experience. J guess they assume that you will be a know it all or someone that bounces too much or something. I have no idea.
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You are 100% correct on all counts. There is risk in changing jobs, and I think that you have hit where Corndogs and I are dropping the ball. Or perhaps its just me in my explanations.
The factors you list are all real and necessary considerations. But they get weighed and always end up in a yes or no answer - stay or GTFO. No way around it. If you stay you do so because it is more desirable than the risks or outcomes of leaving. This doesn't mean that there are not other options - to say that is to lie to yourself.
And to put the thread back on track, the financial circumstance of a teacher or body of teachers and their lack of desire to move on to make more money doesn't mean that we as a tax paying group should pay above market price to keep them as there are others who will accept that job. And this is really what it comes down to: market price is local. The wages are a reflection on what the market says a position is worth. This should be looked at before you get into ANY job and any of the commitments you make in life (house, etc). We all have to understand what it is the market thinks we are worth because that is all the market is going to pay, all things being equal.
Teachers must be paid more so that we attract better talent and talent not almost 100% left-leaning. And I mean significantly more.
These are the people that educate your children. Hello? Don't have children? Then these are the people that educate the people who will have to hold this country up when you're gone. And right now, even in white suburbia, public schools are often complete garbage. Nevermind inner-city schools.
Yes, 70% of it is the parents teaching (and forcing) their child to value education and do their homework/extracurriculars and in today's climate you can't tell people that as a politician otherwise you're some kind of evil. But that 30% is the teacher actually educating them. That education - and the teacher - needs to be rigorous, disciplined, applied in nature, rooted in critical thinking, and balanced. And delivered by strong, well-educated, intelligent people.
They should not have to bunk with 5 other teachers in a shitty apartment in order to be able to have a roof over their heads. They should not have to marry someone who makes enough money to subsidize the fact that s/he is vastly underpaid for the importance of their work.
Know what's NOT important? Sports players making millions, sports team owners making billions, and our politicians "somehow" becoming rich in office (even the Democratic Socialist ones). On top of that, the amount of administration in any school context is fucking ridiculous. Where I went to college, for example... OMG. There was an office for this, and an office for that. And the school started to hire "temporary" professors off tenure track. And they sucked because they were just trying to find the next job and were getting paid nothing for the privilege.
Property tax is a terrible way to fund schools. On top of that, good ideas like vouchers and Charter schools that allows people to choose a school that is actually good are shot down by both sides of the political spectrum. These are CHILDREN... educate them like the Chinese and Japanese do... or we fall apart.
These are the people that educate your children. Hello? Don't have children? Then these are the people that educate the people who will have to hold this country up when you're gone. And right now, even in white suburbia, public schools are often complete garbage. Nevermind inner-city schools.
Yes, 70% of it is the parents teaching (and forcing) their child to value education and do their homework/extracurriculars and in today's climate you can't tell people that as a politician otherwise you're some kind of evil. But that 30% is the teacher actually educating them. That education - and the teacher - needs to be rigorous, disciplined, applied in nature, rooted in critical thinking, and balanced. And delivered by strong, well-educated, intelligent people.
They should not have to bunk with 5 other teachers in a shitty apartment in order to be able to have a roof over their heads. They should not have to marry someone who makes enough money to subsidize the fact that s/he is vastly underpaid for the importance of their work.
Know what's NOT important? Sports players making millions, sports team owners making billions, and our politicians "somehow" becoming rich in office (even the Democratic Socialist ones). On top of that, the amount of administration in any school context is fucking ridiculous. Where I went to college, for example... OMG. There was an office for this, and an office for that. And the school started to hire "temporary" professors off tenure track. And they sucked because they were just trying to find the next job and were getting paid nothing for the privilege.
Property tax is a terrible way to fund schools. On top of that, good ideas like vouchers and Charter schools that allows people to choose a school that is actually good are shot down by both sides of the political spectrum. These are CHILDREN... educate them like the Chinese and Japanese do... or we fall apart.
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I have worked in several fields, and the "update training" is nothing compared to maintaining your teaching license in Colorado, and its only getting tougher. Its not as thought these requirements are sitting still. The bar is continually being set higher. I have also never had to pay, and was paid for my time when doing update training, as well as being put up in a motel room and given a per diem.
The argument for or against more pay is not even yours to make. So you crow about how they get too much already, but you don't know. Its funny to watch people who have no idea what a teacher does, crow about their pay being plenty, when they would have to go to google to see how much an average teacher even gets paid. Its funny culture we have of shitting on the little guys. Helps keep the elites, elite.
Its funny most places give you a raise every year. But teachers, "they don't need no stinking raise." Remember that next time you get a raise chief.
The argument for or against more pay is not even yours to make. So you crow about how they get too much already, but you don't know. Its funny to watch people who have no idea what a teacher does, crow about their pay being plenty, when they would have to go to google to see how much an average teacher even gets paid. Its funny culture we have of shitting on the little guys. Helps keep the elites, elite.
Its funny most places give you a raise every year. But teachers, "they don't need no stinking raise." Remember that next time you get a raise chief.
I work for myself. I haven't paid myself beyond expenses in 6 years. Plowing it back into the company and my employees, risking everything. I know of what I speak regarding decisions. I also train my employees on my dime at work; they get commensurate wages with their training success and OJT. Sometimes they get experience and leave for more pay, it is what it is and it is their right.
You are extrapolating and coming to your own conclusions about what I wrote. I didn't say they weren't deserving of more money. I said that the market is not willing to pay them more than what they make. The market needs to be fixed for sure, but the current reality is what it is. It pays to be a realist at all levels. Only then can you make the CORRECT changes.
My wife is a teacher. She makes less than $20K a year at a small private school that cannot afford to pay even the same salary that state teachers make. She has a masters. She calls it her ministry. She is a realist about it all.
You are extrapolating and coming to your own conclusions about what I wrote. I didn't say they weren't deserving of more money. I said that the market is not willing to pay them more than what they make. The market needs to be fixed for sure, but the current reality is what it is. It pays to be a realist at all levels. Only then can you make the CORRECT changes.
My wife is a teacher. She makes less than $20K a year at a small private school that cannot afford to pay even the same salary that state teachers make. She has a masters. She calls it her ministry. She is a realist about it all.
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You are taking an idealistic view of what you are calling free market labor. Lets simply look at the, "Coal Creek War" if we want to see what a "free labor market" works like. What we live in is not a free labor market. What we are getting for teachers is anyone with B.A who can grab the job and get away from McDonalds or the check out lane. An entire generation, that has been taught, go to college and make good money, got out of college and found a market with little job opportunity. While they sat on copious amounts of debt. Its funny you sit back and monday morning QB a bunch of 18 year olds that were pushed off to college by their teachers and parents. Who believed it was best for them. "Well they should have done the math." It is not that simple.
It is not that simple.I teach at the College level, full-time Professor. We are a NON -tenured institution with a MAJOR feeder to the Military.
I have taught remote (online) from about the second week of Spring. We are transitioning to on campus in seat for the start of our Fall classes.
Let me say... I have been working. I have designed my physical course shell with a hidden re-mote (online) shell JUST IN CASE we are forced to close. We see MANY students that are dual enrolled (high school students taking college courses). There is NOT much we can do if the high schools push a move to close. That is the reason we are prepping a online shell so that we can still reach those students. Zoom...and other video programs have made it business as usual, just on computer.
College expense.... Not all colleges are expensive and D.E (H.S School Students) go to classes FREE OF CHARGE. They pay for NOTHING.
I urge parents to do research on Colleges. We are not all the same. Many of teach the way it was supposed to be done.
Matt
I have taught remote (online) from about the second week of Spring. We are transitioning to on campus in seat for the start of our Fall classes.
Let me say... I have been working. I have designed my physical course shell with a hidden re-mote (online) shell JUST IN CASE we are forced to close. We see MANY students that are dual enrolled (high school students taking college courses). There is NOT much we can do if the high schools push a move to close. That is the reason we are prepping a online shell so that we can still reach those students. Zoom...and other video programs have made it business as usual, just on computer.
College expense.... Not all colleges are expensive and D.E (H.S School Students) go to classes FREE OF CHARGE. They pay for NOTHING.
I urge parents to do research on Colleges. We are not all the same. Many of teach the way it was supposed to be done.
Matt
My wife has been busy doing the same as you, prepping for both in class and online teaching. At the moment it looks like it will be both at the same time if the parents are afraid to send their kiddos to school with the rest of the class, etc.
This is a concept that a lot of people don't seem to understand.
Some want the greedy rich corporations to pay a lot of taxes, because they have billions in revenue. What they don't realize is that once you add that tax burden on them, these corporations will increase the price of their products to compensate. If taxes get too bad, they will just leave, so then you lose all the tax revenue of that company.
Even though on the front end the corporations are paying the tax, the consumers become the real losers.
You are taking an idealistic view of what you are calling free market labor. Lets simply look at the, "Coal Creek War" if we want to see what a "free labor market" works like. What we live in is not a free labor market. What we are getting for teachers is anyone with B.A who can grab the job and get away from McDonalds or the check out lane. An entire generation, that has been taught, go to college and make good money, got out of college and found a market with little job opportunity. While they sat on copious amounts of debt. Its funny you sit back and monday morning QB a bunch of 18 year olds that were pushed off to college by their teachers and parents. Who believed it was best for them. "Well they should have done the math."
You are not running with the correct definition of a free market. A free market is exactly what you just described is occurring in Colorado. In a free market you get to choose what goods and services to offer while also being free to choose which goods and services to buy, both in an unregulated fashion. Nobody is telling anyone that they must be a teacher and no one is telling anyone that they must choose ONLY a certain education discipline to teach. If they want to hire a person they see fit it is their right. Certifications would naturally be required afterward. You really need to look into this definition. What you have IS a free market, and it may be part of what is driving wages down.
I'm not Monday morning quarterbacking anyone, If they are old enough to smoke and serve they are old enough to say "no". Many do. If they have the debt then they went in knowing they were going to have to pay for it, therefore they were not pushed - the entered into the debt contract WILLINGLY, which means they have to address the consequences of their actions, good or bad. If someone chooses a degree without doing the research of the market post-graduation but still assumes debt to get that degree, fine. But don't get into the taxpayers pocket when it doesn't work out the way you dreamed it would. You shouldn't tax those who chose correctly to cover the dream-gap of those who didn't. We have to get past this point of not allowing people to acknowledge personal responsibility.
I paid my way 100% through college by working full time and going to school near full time. Best decision I ever made was to put in the time and the pain. Heaps of pain. And it was good for me that I went through it.
Take a look at the Universities and you'll see all that gets you is very highly paid communist indoctrinators.
We need accountability of our money plain and simple. We still pay for illegals in school. They hide it in programs like ESL or English as a second language.. and when my boys get old enough and I home school then what?
They started red flag last year and nobody fought.
They started disarming law abiding citizens on their own property while facing off unlawful terrorists groups aka rioters
People of one color are trying to make it all about them while running around and shooting moms and dads (while walking his daughter down the street) and elderly couples in va cemeteries..
And still we don’t fight back.
My family is staying in a tent right now..
And yet if I don’t pay my Taxes I’m the bad guy.
whrn is too late actually too late?
They started red flag last year and nobody fought.
They started disarming law abiding citizens on their own property while facing off unlawful terrorists groups aka rioters
People of one color are trying to make it all about them while running around and shooting moms and dads (while walking his daughter down the street) and elderly couples in va cemeteries..
And still we don’t fight back.
My family is staying in a tent right now..
And yet if I don’t pay my Taxes I’m the bad guy.
whrn is too late actually too late?
I didn’t miss your point at all, I just went a little off topic because I felt the need to say it.
no
they also protect the incompetent and the unwilling. have to keep those dues coming in. don't forget supporting the union leaders in their lavish lifestyles. workers of the world unite. thank you Karl. may I have another.
Consider yourself lucky. A lot of people have to pay their own way in this “update training” you are talking about. And I can say in a number of fields, it’s constant training. I am also on the fence about whether or not we should pay more to attract people. On one hand I can see your point about needing to pay more to attract better people. The policing field is one where this really comes to mind. On the other hand, whatever happened to people making an honest wage and taking pride in what they do instead of bitching and moaning about how they aren’t getting enough?
Most jobs, in order to get paid more, you have to deliver, then you might get rewarded for your efforts. But it seems we have somehow flipped this mentality in some cases to where it’s, if you want good people then you have to pay up front. That seems like gambling to me. What makes a person good before they have proven themselves? Just because you give someone a good salary doesn’t mean they are worth a shit. That’s a huge risk on the company side. My wife’s company is bad about this. Lucky for them it works out but it pisses me off to no end when I hear about executives at her job having to get like $60,000 bonuses as incentives to doing their jobs. What about the 6 figure salary they already make as an incentive to do their job? They better be glad they don’t work for me because if I was paying that kind of money and then found out I need to give them another $50,000-$60,000 to get them to do the job they should already be doing then I’d tell them to GTFO.
I’d say on the aspect of teaching that there is a lot outside their control as well, as in teaching methods/styles and what they can teach that all plays a part in how well the performance of the teacher can be. But I don’t know how one could justify paying them better money unless they deliver some kind of results first. Unfortunately, teaching, like in a lot of jobs, may be locked in a position to where you can work your ass off and never get much credit for it due to factors outside of your control.
The truth is, this is not an easy discussion with easy answers and can be extrapolated to many other fields aside from teachers. What I do know is that the ones getting squeezed have to make a living as well and can only be squeezed so much. I’m also curious as to how much more we need to pay teachers? What’s the number? $10,000 more, $50,000 more? What is it? I also know that a lot of them fail to mention, that they have some of the best benefits there is. Their health insurance in our state is the best money can buy, not to mention their guaranteed retirement. So in a sense they are already being paid better than most. People often overlook, myself included, benefits as part of their overall pay.
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I was fortunate enough to mostly have teachers that understood the concept of critical thinking and debate and didn't overtly interject their personal opinion. And if they had a personal opinion, they weren't thin skinned if I challenged it with facts. If I challenged anything with whining or BS, well... I learned not to.
I had similar experiences growing up. With that said, I don’t think teachers were handcuffed then as much as they are now.
I never stated we need to pay teachers anything more. I stated the normal argument floated on why teaching should pay more, and I stated the situation is complicated and most of these ideas are overly simplistic. Some people are just trying to have an argument about "teacher wages." Which is stupid because its different in every district, and decided locally. There are districts where teachers are paid well, and districts where teachers are paid much less. Its not one entity that covers the entire U.S.
Here is how teachers are currently evaluated in Colorado. I bet dollars to donuts your states are not much different.
State Model Evaluation System for Teachers | CDE
www.cde.state.co.us
