650 xl Setup for 223

[mbeavers1]

I am getting ready to set up a Dillon 650xl for loading up 223 for plinking ammo to feed gas guns. I plan to run the Dillon 1500 trimmer to do all the trimming but am confused on the need to chamfer. I have read that some re-run a sizing die w an expander button. Is this necessary or could an expander mandrel be used to avoid sizing again?

All LC 1x fired brass is already deprimed and cleaned. Here is how I was thinking to set up:

Station 1 - Universal de-primer (if needed)
Station 3 - Dillon 1500 size/trim
Station 5 - Sinclair expander die to set neck tension

Thoughts or recommendations?

 

[6.5SH]

The Dillon trim die way, way over-work the neck. If using any thin jacketed bullet the minimum neck diameter and sharp edges from no deburring can absolutely cause issues. Use of a mandrel can work, but care needs to be taken with ensuring proper lubrication inside the necks.

Reviewing the AMU videos on case lube on accurateshooter.com is a good idea.

Another option would be using the custom Dillon trim dies from CH4D, they do not size the neck down as much.

 

[mbeavers1]

The Dillon trim die way, way over-work the neck. If using any thin jacketed bullet the minimum neck diameter and sharp edges from no deburring can absolutely cause issues. Use of a mandrel can work, but care needs to be taken with ensuring proper lubrication inside the necks.

Reviewing the AMU videos on case lube on accurateshooter.com is a good idea.

Another option would be using the custom Dillon trim dies from CH4D, they do not size the neck down as much.

Let me back up a step. Would you even mess with trying to trim 1x fired LC brass? We are going to load about 15k rds of it. My though was to install the trimmer since it's available just to avoid the chance of having any case length issues since obviously I am not gonna caliper every case.

I'm well aware with the mandreling and lube requirements. I load a lot of precision rifle but am new to the mass producing game.

 

[Gustav7]

Let me back up a step. Would you even mess with trying to trim 1x fired LC brass? We are going to load about 15k rds of it. My though was to install the trimmer since it's available just to avoid the chance of having any case length issues since obviously I am not gonna caliper every case.

I'm well aware with the mandreling and lube requirements. I load a lot of precision rifle but am new to the mass producing game.

Whats the most annoying part is that you cannot get a Tri-way cutter on the RT1500 (that I know of)....

If I had to do my 4500+ .223 again... I would get a Henderson Precision trimmer with the tri-way cutter head and trim all the cases to 1.740... and then never have to trim again, or most likely not. Usually you're either going to lose your brass or the cases get so beat up they never make it to 5-6+ firings out of gas guns.

But it if is only 1x fired I doubt you'll have to trim this time. Have you measured a few? like 50 randomly selected cases? See what the average is telling you.

I also have a RCBS X-die that I've used too, but recently I've cared alot less about trimming when its not precision. You can also use the Sinclair throat measuring tool and see what the longest neck you can fit into your guns is and go off that. Often, its longer than 1.76..

 

[Gustav7]

For gas gun bulk ammo, I crimp with and Lee crimp die.... so I used an expander mandrel to get around 1.5-2 thou neck tension, seated my hornday 55gr and then crimped pretty solid on them. I did not have a triway cutter so I was seating without deburring... if I could have expander to 0.5-1 thou tension I would have, then crimped it back down.

 

[mbeavers1]

I have a henderson but we are talking 15k rounds and this is really shtf/plinking ammo. Think we may nix the trimming. Wont pick all this stuff up again

 

[Gustav7]

I have a henderson but we are talking 15k rounds and this is really shtf/plinking ammo. Think we may nix the trimming. Wont pick all this stuff up again

Ya thats substantial lol...

I'd measure a few and make sure its not already long, but other than that... I say load em and go.

Do you crimp on these?

 

[Bullspotter]

I run all my .223 with 2 passes, First pass if gets sized and de primed, with dillion carbide, Then though the trimmer, Then i swedge, chamf/debur and the clean lube off. Toss in 2nd tool head and load, I use a lee crimp for a light crimp only, I also run a decap die in the first station to make sure primer holes are clear from cleaning media. It dose not resize the neck, I run only BT bullets and they load fine.

 

[mbeavers1]

I run all my .223 with 2 passes, First pass if gets sized and de primed, with dillion carbide, Then though the trimmer, Then i swedge, chamf/debur and the clean lube off. Toss in 2nd tool head and load, I use a lee crimp for a light crimp only, I also run a decap die in the first station to make sure primer holes are clear from cleaning media. It dose not resize the neck, I run only BT bullets and they load fine.

What lube are you using?

 

[Kadams1563]

Ok give me a little bit and I’ll show you my set up. I have a decent set up for .223. I have loaded thousands upon thousands of rounds without issues.

 

[Bullspotter]

What lube are you using?

I use the dillon spray. I like it for large amounts of brass, Put about 1000 in a large flat rate box and spray and mix them up good, then let set for a few min and mix them up again and run.

 

[Kadams1563]

Ok I can’t seem to add a video off my phone that I took lol. So I will try and type out what I do and how it works.

I dry tumble all dirty brass with primers still in place. Then I run all clean/lubed brass through the first tool head that is the prep tool head.
station 1 dillion resizer/deprimer
station 2 empty
station 3 trimmer (I have a RT1200)
Station 4 empty
station 5 neck expander

All brass goes through this took head so they come out resized, deprimed, trimmed and neck expanded. Then brass gets cleaned again to removed all the case lube and clean primer pockets some what.

Then I replace the tool head with the loading tool head.
Station one universal deprimer to make sure no dry medial is in primer pocket
Station 2 powder drop
Station 3 powder check system
Station 4 bullet seater on a whidden floater
Station 5 bullet crimp die

SO then brass is now primed, loaded, bullet is set, and crimped. Ready to go shoot.

I used dillon carbide dies and I lube with home made lanolin and HEET. This has worked for me for a lot of rounds and never a problem.

 

[Bullspotter]

Ok I can’t seem to add a video off my phone that I took lol. So I will try and type out what I do and how it works.

I dry tumble all dirty brass with primers still in place. Then I run all clean/lubed brass through the first tool head that is the prep tool head.
station 1 dillion resizer/deprimer
station 2 empty
station 3 trimmer (I have a RT1200)
Station 4 empty
station 5 neck expander

All brass goes through this took head so they come out resized, deprimed, trimmed and neck expanded. Then brass gets cleaned again to removed all the case lube and clean primer pockets some what.

Then I replace the tool head with the loading tool head.
Station one universal deprimer to make sure no dry medial is in primer pocket
Station 2 powder drop
Station 3 powder check system
Station 4 bullet seater on a whidden floater
Station 5 bullet crimp die

SO then brass is now primed, loaded, bullet is set, and crimped. Ready to go shoot.

I used dillon carbide dies and I lube with home made lanolin and HEET. This has worked for me for a lot of rounds and never a problem.

Very close to my set up, I however do not use a neck expander, I like the extra neck tension in my ARs, Have not run into any accuracy issues after 10s of thousands of rounds. And a side note every brass for ALL of my ARs get trimmed period. Do not need any issues with any ammo, I do get range brass on occasion, and do not know the history of it. Love my 650!!!

 

[mbeavers1]

Very close to my set up, I however do not use a neck expander, I like the extra neck tension in my ARs, Have not run into any accuracy issues after 10s of thousands of rounds. And a side note every brass for ALL of my ARs get trimmed period. Do not need any issues with any ammo, I do get range brass on occasion, and do not know the history of it. Love my 650!!!

Any issues w the mandrel and no lube inside the neck? I individuality lube my precision ammo because I get galling if not. Using lanolin in a plastic tub (or spray) doesn't get much in the neck, if any.

Thanks for the great advice guys!

 

[Gustav7]

Any issues w the mandrel and no lube inside the neck? I individuality lube my precision ammo because I get galling if not. Using lanolin in a plastic tub (or spray) doesn't get much in the neck, if any.

Thanks for the great advice guys!

I have an old loading block I use. For 223 I can fit 100 cases on the block, and I generally spray the lanolin/castor oil lube mix at a 45 degree angle down onto the cases from all sides.

That being said, I also invested in the Black/Tit. nitride mandrels and that cut down on any serious galling as well.

I do the same for my 6.5 but 50 at a time. I load all my precision on a 550.

 

[Sheldon N]

Any issues w the mandrel and no lube inside the neck? I individuality lube my precision ammo because I get galling if not. Using lanolin in a plastic tub (or spray) doesn't get much in the neck, if any.

It doesn't need much lube inside the neck. I use lanolin lube in a plastic tub for 223 and run a Sinclair carbide mandrel and have never even had a hint of galling, usually do 1k cases at a time.

I'd say run the trim die because I've seen 15-20 thou of case growth on the first sizing from 1x fired brass. A mandrel die right after the trim die will knock off any bur inside the case mouth. For the mandrel I'd say either Sinclair Carbide, 21st Century Ti Nitride, or their new black nitride mandrel would all be good choices. I do think a plain steel mandrel would have issues with galling.

 

[Bullspotter]

Any issues w the mandrel and no lube inside the neck? I individuality lube my precision ammo because I get galling if not. Using lanolin in a plastic tub (or spray) doesn't get much in the neck, if any.

Thanks for the great advice guys!

No i have not seen any galling, I assume that enough spray lube gets in the neck to keep it from galling,