What am I missing to get 1 MOA?

[HAMBURGERATTACK]

I recently got 1-8x ATACR for my KAC 11.5" pistol. Previously I had only zeroed for red dots at 25-50 yards and had always been satisfied when it grouped in about a quarter size or smaller.

I am having problems getting that same kind of group at 100yards with my scope setup. Right now at 100 I am able to group in about a fist size shooting off my pack.

I know I need more practice - but am wondering what else I might need to improve these groups?
Would a real stock instead of a pistol brace make a difference here? Would a rear bag help (right now just propping brace on a folded flannel)?
How about one of those Pack-Mountable Shooting Rests?

Thanks for any help.

 

[themightytimmah]

All of those things would help - I’d start with a SBR stamp and stock. I’ve never shot great groups with an AR pistol, I think you’ll find your ability to control the gun during the recoil cycle and find a consistent shot to shot shooting position goes through the roof with a stock on there.

 

[Newbie2020]

Yes yes yes

Fundamentals of Marksmanship
Proper recoil management

Those cannot be practiced without a true stock with a proper consistent cheek weld and good consistent shoulder purchase.

 

[Newbie2020]

Then add a decent bipod and a proper rear bag from Precision Underground or Tab Gear or Armageddon Gear.

Support the vendors who support The Hide.

 

[HAMBURGERATTACK]

All of those things would help - I’d start with a SBR stamp and stock. I’ve never shot great groups with an AR pistol, I think you’ll find your ability to control the gun during the recoil cycle and find a consistent shot to shot shooting position goes through the roof with a stock on there.

Thanks for the reply. I have already started the SBR process.

Thinking about getting an Armageddon Gear X-wing rear bag and the EBERLESTOCK Pack-Mountable Shooting Rest

 

[HAMBURGERATTACK]

Then add a decent bipod and a proper rear bag from Precision Underground or Tab Gear or Armageddon Gear.

Support the vendors who support The Hide.

Do you think I would be better off ditching the pack setup and splurging on the KAC bipod?

I would prefer to learn to get the groups I want from the pack but not totally opposed to getting a bipod. Did not originally plan on a bipod cuz this gun is such a shorty.

 

[Newbie2020]

You’ll be amazed at the improvements.

Watch ALL of the SHlowlight YouTube videos. It’s not just about the equipment.

 

[Newbie2020]

Do you think I would be better off ditching the pack setup and splurging on the KAC bipod?

I would prefer to learn to get the groups I want from the pack but not totally opposed to getting a bipod. Did not originally plan on a bipod cuz this gun is such a shorty.

If you think you’ll want to move out to longer ranges past 500 yds then 100% yes.

 

[1moaoff]

A 11.5" gas pistol might be challenging to get sub 1" at 100.

Im not saying it can't be done but its not a platform really set up for groups.

Personally fist size from that would be acceptable.

Ammo will play a large part.

 

[HAMBURGERATTACK]

A 11.5" gas pistol might be challenging to get sub 1" at 100.

Im not saying it can't be done but its not a platform really set up for groups.

Personally fist size from that would be acceptable.

Ammo will play a large part.

I was getting the fist sized groups consistently with federal XM193

 

[HAMBURGERATTACK]

If you think you’ll want to move out to longer ranges past 500 yds then 100% yes.

Where I live 100yards is the max I ever get to shoot at. I think ima stick with pack shooting for now.

 

[b6graham]

Its not a precision rifle. Or even a precision setup.

Its a 11.5 pistol off a pack with a 8x scope. Probably shoot bulk federal X ammo.

 

[HAMBURGERATTACK]

Its not a precision rifle. Or even a precision setup.

Its a 11.5 pistol off a pack with a 8x scope. Probably shoot bulk federal X ammo.

I guess my expectations for accuracy have been set by all the internet pics of quarter sized holes at 100yards.

I got a similar fist sized group shooting Black Hills Tipped Match King and Federal XM193.

 

[SepticDeath]

Hard to get a 1 inch group with a 8 power scope. As said above an SBR isn't meant for precision work.

 

[Jack's Dad]

Try a bump stack for added precision

 

[_Windrider_]

Hard to get a 1 inch group with a 8 power scope. As said above an SBR isn't meant for precision work.

Nope. Cone of lead. Minute of man. Under 2 MOA with a fighting rifle is more than adequate. But there’s no reason to not strive for better. It’s all been said, good bipod and a stock will get you to 1 most likely. Rear bag not needed but nice to have.

edit to add, I wouldn’t even use a bipod. Shooting off a bag is more realistic with an 11.5” SBR. Get a good forward grip to help use as a stop when need.

 

[houndog]

So "fist size" groups are about 3-4 MOA? Yes, you should be able to do better than this. As others have said, some of this is probably you. Consistency is key. Try to get behind the rifle the exact same way each time. Slow trigger squeeze. Be sure to follow through. As others have said, watch some videos. A stock will definitely help. So will a rear bag. Don't think a bipod really makes sense on an 11.5" SBR.

The other part of this is you do need to lower your expectations. 2 MOA 5 shot groups is fine, particularly with XM193. If you can get down to 1.5MOA with FGMM you're still doing pretty good. While there are certainly people that can average 1 MOA groups (that means some under and some over 1 MOA), particularly with one of the more precision oriented rigs - i.e. GAP, LaRue, etc. I suspect most of these sub .5 MOA groups you hear so much about online are cherry picked.

 

[HAMBURGERATTACK]

What rear bag would you guys recommend?
I will be using a magpul sl stock when stamp comes back.
Using a pillow stuffed in a LBT 3 Day assault pack as front.

I like Armageddon gear stuff.

 

[Animal357]

All of those things would help - I’d start with a SBR stamp and stock. I’ve never shot great groups with an AR pistol, I think you’ll find your ability to control the gun during the recoil cycle and find a consistent shot to shot shooting position goes through the roof with a stock on there.

Be aware that if you change your pistol to a SBR you won't be able to take it out of state without ATF permission ahead of time. Many states restrict the ability to have rifle in the passenger compartment of a vehicle, and its difficult to resell as many buyers don't wan the NFA hassles.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

I recently got 1-8x ATACR for my KAC 11.5" pistol. Previously I had only zeroed for red dots at 25-50 yards and had always been satisfied when it grouped in about a quarter size or smaller.

I am having problems getting that same kind of group at 100yards with my scope setup. Right now at 100 I am able to group in about a fist size shooting off my pack.

I know I need more practice - but am wondering what else I might need to improve these groups?
Would a real stock instead of a pistol brace make a difference here? Would a rear bag help (right now just propping brace on a folded flannel)?
How about one of those Pack-Mountable Shooting Rests?

Thanks for any help.

Apparently tracking skills....

Sirhr

 

[TxWelder35]

If you want a gun to shoot groups then build one. That’s not the point of an 11.5” pistol. Use it for its intended purpose and roll on.

 

[acudaowner]

keep at it and if you want it bad enough you should be able to achieve it , you can do it .

 

[Boltyboi]

Couple thoughts.

Don't bipod it. Its a tiny little guy, keep it that way.

About 1.5 to 2 inches is a very normal range for a non precision oriented ar15. Why do you need much better than that out of such a short gun? I'd be happy with the rifle being able to hit my intended targets. A fist sized group will do you right out to 300 yards on dude sized targets, and I doubt you intend to use that 10.5 to hit Prarie dogs at 600. Also, 5.56 out of a little tube like that really does not have much balistic potential out past 150 maybe 200 anyways.

Try out some different ammo. Particularly 1:7 twist guns sometimes really don't like 55grainers. Different guns like to be fed different ammo.

Lastly, you are really trying to shove a square peg into a round hole here. Even if you had a gun which can shoot under an inch (by no means a guarantee on an ar, much less one running bulk ammo), you have what must be the hardest rifle to try to do that with.

Pistol brace, tiny gun, light, shooting off a bag and without a rear bag. It sounds like you are getting solid results out of the gun. Talk about a hard gun to learn on for groups...

Let it be an sbr man. If you want to chase groups pick up a precision .22lr or a ruger american in .223/6.5CM, whatever. Set the rifle up for your intended goal instead of trying to go mudding in your porche

Edit: make a couple sand socks. One for a rear bag, one to rest the rifle on on your pack/whatever front rest. Single biggest bang for buck you will see in shrinking groups. If you aren't stable, your groups won't be small.

 

[Mike4837]

Lots of good comments and suggestions here. Keep in mind as well that with that optic consistent head position is going to important as there is no parallax adjustment and the parallax is fixed at 125 meters. Like others have said it’s not ideal for precision shooting, but the optic is capable with the right skills.

My question is why? Why are you trying to take an 11.5” pistol and shoot precision with it? You’d probably be time and money ahead to buy an 18” rifle or similar if you want to shoot precision.

 

[loveha]

Have a 12.5" SBR with an NX8. It can do 1 MOA, but only with match ammo, but 55gr bulk, I get about 2-3 MOA depending on the brand.