Why Mask Wearing is my Civic Duty

[OldSalty2]

Why are people who arent even sick getting tested? Enormous number of tests. What country has most tests in world? I bet i do not need to look it up to know the answer...

Being required for work, well I guess.

But, i am just talking about avg people.

I dont understand this...

Is it like...well i aint got shit to do today, might as well get a covid test?

Or,

Omg im freaking the fuck out i better go get a covid test?

Wtf is driving all this testing? Is someone getting paid?

 

[1911addict42]

Why are people who arent even sick getting tested?

Being required for work, well I guess.

But, i am just talking about avg people.

I dont understand this...

To avoid Asymptomatic person spreading it around people with high risk preexisting conditions

 

[OldSalty2]

To avoid Asymptomatic person spreading it around people with high risk preexisting conditions

You think that is the most signifcant factor in what is driving joe public to get massive testing?

Maybe, not saying you wrong but i have doubts.

Something tells me labs are making bigly with all the testing. And its a fear/incentive feedback loop that is making money after making money. We see this with how covid deaths were given incentives.

 

[AngryKoala]

To avoid Asymptomatic person spreading it around people with high risk preexisting conditions

They have taken it to the extreme in some instances. My wife had to quarantine because a students, friends, mom had tested positive and may have been in contact with her. 14 day quarantine or until a negative test result is displayed.

 

[theLBC]

Ok, so if there are an average of 7700 deaths/day, let's call this 800 deaths/day due to the flu. For four weeks, that's 22,400 total. Pretty bad, but we haven't yet discarded all the deaths from those with cormorbidities (if pre-existing conditions negate a Covid death, then certainly the same standard applies to the flu), and that particular outbreak didn't even last three months total. Rookie numbers (well, unless a loved one was among the dead, in which case it probably didn't feel like much of a joke).

The point is that all these attempts to compare influenza to Covid are kinda retarded because the Covid data is jacked up for reasons we don't need to cover for the umpteenth time and influenza data is complete garbage that is extrapolated from a small and shitty dataset.

well that is the point, although sorry if i am repeating myself (or think i need to).
the virus is a real thing, the reaction is a joke.
imo, the cdc artificially inflates estimated infections of seasonal flu to keep the morbidity low.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

[YAWN]
I'll be back when yall are arguing about the forced vaccinations.

 

[OldSalty2]

They have taken it to the extreme in some instances. My wife had to quarantine because a students, friends, mom had tested positive and may have been in contact with her. 14 day quarantine or until a negative test result is displayed.

There is a difference between being asked to take a test because you had some possible contact to a known infection and what seems to be going on.

Oh and now that there is more data what is the IFR for covid?

 

[Nik H]

14 day quarantine or until a negative test result is displayed.

Step 1....
Step 2 is coming....quarantine indefinitely....fucking liberals should be....

 

[theLBC]

Deaths per year in US since 2000: ( See https://datacenter.prb.org/download/usdata/indicator/deaths/csv)


Let’s see how 2019 and 2020 compare

2021 might be just as important.

 

[AngryKoala]

There is a difference between being asked to take a test because you had some possible contact to a known infection and what seems to be going on.

Oh and now that there is more data what is the IFR for covid?

Thats the problem is the health department seems to think the general vicinity means contact. In this instance they were in the same building, not even the same room.

 

[1911addict42]

2021 might be just as important.

I know through personal experience, multiple people that survived but are suffering serious long term side effects months after “recovery”. It’s not just about deaths, there is definitely real damage done even if people survive.

That data will take years to unfold.

 

[OldSalty2]

Thats the problem is the health department seems to think the general vicinity means contact. In this instance they were in the same building, not even the same room.

You seem to be really knowledgeable regarding covid. Can you answer the question on the IFR of covid19?

 

[E. Bryant]

well that is the point, although sorry if i am repeating myself (or think i need to).
the virus is a real thing, the reaction is a joke.
imo, the cdc artificially inflates estimated infections of seasonal flu to keep the morbidity low.

I won't speak to the CDC's motivations behind extrapolating the minuscule flu data into 60 million annual cases, but strictly from a statistical standpoint, it's fucked up (not much different than putting 500 rounds of .22LR downrange last weekend and extrapolating that into a claim that I average over 150,000 rounds/year of practice). So comparing the two diseases strikes me as going pretty deep into two-bald-men-fighting-over-a-comb territory (and as a bald person, I can use that metaphor without being discriminatory towards the follicly-challenged).

The reaction is indeed a joke. Lockdowns are retarded. Ignoring the problem is retarded. Not understanding the most basic facts about method of transmission, and exactly where it is most probable to be transmitted, and how our immune systems might respond, and who is actually vulnerable, is retarded. For both the scientific and policy-making sectors, it's a complete embarrassment, and it's not getting any better despite the fact we've had damn near a year to gather data and process it into information.

 

[theLBC]

I know through personal experience, multiple people that survived but are suffering serious long term side effects months after “recovery”. It’s not just about deaths, there is definitely real damage done even if people survive.

That data will take years to unfold.

that's one of the sadder aspects as well.
while i am not guessing how your friends were treated, thousands were over sedated and thrown on vents that destroyed their lungs.

 

[AngryKoala]

You seem to be really knowledgeable regarding covid. Can you answer the question on the IFR of covid19?

Unfortunately I cannot because the accuracy of that data is suspect to say the least. An unfortunate event of monetizing/politicizing a virus and the care of patients with the virus. If incentive is created, people will game the system. We will never know the true numbers thus an IFR is impossible to track.

 

[theLBC]

I won't speak to the CDC's motivations behind extrapolating the minuscule flu data into 60 million annual cases, but strictly from a statistical standpoint, it's fucked up (not much different than putting 500 rounds of .22LR downrange last weekend and extrapolating that into a claim that I average over 150,000 rounds/year of practice). So comparing the two diseases strikes me as going pretty deep into two-bald-men-fighting-over-a-comb territory (and as a bald person, I can use that metaphor without being discriminatory towards the follicly-challenged).

The reaction is indeed a joke. Lockdowns are retarded. Ignoring the problem is retarded. Not understanding the most basic facts about method of transmission, and exactly where it is most probable to be transmitted, and how our immune systems might respond, and who is actually vulnerable, is retarded. For both the scientific and policy-making sectors, it's a complete embarrassment, and it's not getting any better despite the fact we've had damn near a year to gather data and process it into information.

i have looked at the methodologies for their "estimates", which were developed about 20 years ago if i remember correctly,
we should probably have the resident data analyst look at it.
their "network" that gathers statistics might actually test up to 1.5 million patients "that present symptoms of the seasonal flu".
even in that limited dataset of patients that present symptoms, only 20% test positive, and up to 10% of those die.
how they arrive at 1 out of 6 of us having it is a job for an expert.
if they are correct about 1 in 6, the death related totals are way off.

 

[lariat]

I know through personal experience, multiple people that survived but are suffering serious long term side effects months after “recovery”. It’s not just about deaths, there is definitely real damage done even if people survive.

That data will take years to unfold.

And this is an excellent point I will admit you have finally made. It may take years for everything to unfold, no one is saying that the quarantines are stopping the spread, only slowing it so that it doesn’t overwhelm the hospitals (which is bullshit). Since we can’t avoid it, don’t close down anything. It only adds misery and economic trouble to the inevitable. Just get on with life. Wear the masks if you so desire but don’t fuck with peoples lives and add misery to the virus.

 

[OldSalty2]

Unfortunately I cannot because the accuracy of that data is suspect to say the least. An unfortunate event of monetizing/politicizing a virus and the care of patients with the virus. If incentive is created, people will game the system. We will never know the true numbers thus an IFR is impossible to track.

Wow, thats crazy. I remember hearing 5% (from the resident SH expert with the plaugue-mask logo), then it was 2% and now? Read somewhere recently it was estimated between 0.4% and 0.2%. Or is it lower yet? seems when the estimates were high its all you heard about...

Pretty weird how it isnt more common knowledge. Would think giving people accurate info on just how damn deadly this shit is would help to get people in-line...



Or, maybe not.

 

[seanh]

big deal. i work for a huge healthcare company and am the sr. systems engineer assigned to legal discovery cases.
i actually see what is happening in the real world in real time.

Cool, Then you absolutely see the disinformation, the Shady misinformation information presented by the media, the shaming of those that don't follow the narrative.

Just a comment on your statement... Not following whether you support or don't support mask-wearing.

Do you watch the commercials on TV and notice the changes and how they're presented to the public? The whole conditioning a mask wearing and that if you don't you hate helping the community (shaming)

I know through personal experience, multiple people that survived but are suffering serious long term side effects months after “recovery”. It’s not just about deaths, there is definitely real damage done even if people survive.

That data will take years to unfold.

And to think that it was purposely released.

Can you imagine the depravity that somebody must have harm injure and kill their own in order to have political control

 

[1911addict42]

And this is an excellent point I will admit you have finally made. It may take years for everything to unfold, no one is saying that the quarantines are stopping the spread, only slowing it so that it doesn’t overwhelm the hospitals (which is bullshit). Since we can’t avoid it, don’t close down anything. It only adds misery and economic trouble to the inevitable. Just get on with life. Wear the masks if you so desire but don’t fuck with peoples lives and add misery to the virus.

“only slowing it so that it doesn’t overwhelm the hospitals (which is bullshit)”

Don’t know if it is always the case but sometimes it’s true- my father got it in NY in April and he couldn’t get a bed in the hospital until he was pretty much dying.
The criteria for getting a bed was if you can’t talk or can’t walk- or an oxygen in blood level of below 85. So we basically had to wait for him to deteriorate over days until he made the cut, all we could do was give him oxygen until then.

many similar occurrences happened throughout Europe, and are starting to happen again now

I think many here are underestimating what is possible if no measures are taken until we get vaccines and therapeutics... just my opinion

 

[theLBC]

Cool, Then you absolutely see the disinformation, the Shady misinformation information presented by the media, the shaming of those that don't follow the narrative.

Just a comment on your statement... Not following whether you support or don't support mask-wearing.

yup, and i also see our own management talk out the side of their mouths.
mind you, when i say huge, i don't mean like humana huge, but we did furlough ~3k people. about 90% back at least part time and everyone kept their benefits.

ftr, at worst, i think masks are a training tool, meant to ease americans into accepting the unacceptable.

 

[AngryKoala]

Wow, thats crazy. I remember hearing 5% (from the resident SH plaugue expert), then it was 2% and now? Read somewhere recently it was estimated between 0.4% and 0.2%. Or is it lower yet?

Pretty weird how it isnt more common knowledge. Would think giving people accurate info on just how damn deadly this shit is would help to get people in line...



Or, maybe not.

Who the hell told you 5% lol. I am not a virologist but this virus, based on its method of attack i believe does have the potential to be more deadly. I base this on the number of individuals with lung issues.
I am also not sure it is fair to compare 2019 with 2020 when quarantines and mask mandates were only placed in 2020.

 

[theLBC]

 

[theLBC]

the suck part as we head into "flu season" is that most of us have compromised immune systems from being isolated from background exposure that keeps our shit running.

 

[AngryKoala]

China would probably have the best data on all of this if they didn't have such a scumbag government. People were wearing masks before covid so evaluating their annual or monthly deaths would be interesting. Unfortunately, the strict quarantining measures they took would scue the data.

 

[lariat]

“only slowing it so that it doesn’t overwhelm the hospitals (which is bullshit)”

Don’t know if it is always the case but sometimes it’s true- my father got it in NY in April and he couldn’t get a bed in the hospital until he was pretty much dying.
The criteria for getting a bed was if you can’t talk or can’t walk- or an oxygen in blood level of below 85. So we basically had to wait for him to deteriorate over days until he made the cut, all we could do was give him oxygen until then.

many similar occurrences happened throughout Europe, and are starting to happen again now

I think many here are underestimating what is possible if no measures are taken until we get vaccines and therapeutics... just my opinion

I’m sorry for your loss, sincerely. But there is a reality here that leadership in every country must take into account: do you crush the healthy citizenry for the few that actually do die from covid? If they can’t make that decision they don’t need to be in that position. People are going to die, this is fact. People are also going to die from car wrecks, flu and heart disease but no one is shutting down the economy over it or trying to control the populace with them. The actions by the governments with this are unique and not good.

I don’t agree with your posts regarding this or your conclusions, and you should have stated that background up front with your father. It might have saved at least some of the angst in this thread and would have definitely given some context to your perspective. Except about the 40 firearms, that’s kinda strange.

The virus will claim more lives. We need to adjust to that and move on instead of cowering in fear.

 

[theLBC]

China would probably have the best data on all of this if they didn't have such a scumbag government. People were wearing masks before covid so evaluating their annual or monthly deaths would be interesting. Unfortunately, the strict quarantining measures they took would scue the data.

amusement parks are open in wuhan.

 

[AngryKoala]

amusement parks are open in wuhan.

Interesting, I wonder if they are observing the same spike....not like we will ever know.

 

[OldSalty2]

Who the hell told you 5% lol. I am not a virologist but this virus, based on its method of attack i believe does have the potential to be more deadly. I base this on the number of individuals with lung issues.
I am also not sure it is fair to compare 2019 with 2020 when quarantines and mask mandates were only placed in 2020.

Hmm, well assuming you joined in March, you may not have read this thread.

Turns out Corona Virus threat is all horsecrap.

https://www.newsweek.com/wuhan-coronavirus-death-rate-china-mortality-covid-19-1493201 The fake news, mostly bullshit leftist media is being forced by the science they soooooo love to admit that this entire scam is horseshit. More bullshit to whip their idiot base into a frenzy and fuck over...

www.snipershide.com

So just in case, its actually a very interesting read in hindsight.

But you will see 8%, 5%, 4% etc.

So now, what is the estimated IFR of cv19? No one knows? Seems odd, people KNEW it was 8% or 5%, oops 4%...no wait 2%, but now they dont know shit?

Could it actually and really be flu level IFR? Damn, if IFR were known now like it was before, I wonder if the left would still be in love with gods gift?

 

[AngryKoala]

Hmm, well assuming you joined in March, you may not have read this thread.

Turns out Corona Virus threat is all horsecrap.

https://www.newsweek.com/wuhan-coronavirus-death-rate-china-mortality-covid-19-1493201 The fake news, mostly bullshit leftist media is being forced by the science they soooooo love to admit that this entire scam is horseshit. More bullshit to whip their idiot base into a frenzy and fuck over...

www.snipershide.com

So just in case, its actually a very interesting read in hindsight.

But you will see 8%, 5%, 4% etc.

So now, what is the estimated IFR of cv19? No one knows? Seems odd, people KNEW it was 8% or 5%, oops 4%...no wait 2%, but now they dont know shit?

Could it actually and really be flu level IFR?

The potential for infection is probably greater due to the morphology of the virus and the "spikes" but whether that equates to an actual higher IFR no one knows due to tainted or insufficient data.

 

[theLBC]

Interesting, I wonder if they are observing the same spike....not like we will ever know.

spike in what? testing or sick people?
hospitalizations is probably a better indicator, but even that reporting is sporadic and hard to gauge.

National Data: Hospitalization

Currently hospitalized, ICU, and ventilator numbers in the US for each day from January 2020 to the present.

covidtracking.com

 

[OldSalty2]

The potential for infection is probably greater due to the morphology of the virus and the "spikes" but whether that equates to an actual higher IFR no one knows due to tainted or insufficient data.

So wait. We are locking down countries, destroying peoples lives causing real damage in suicides, drugs, mental issues for something we have no clue at all how deadly it actually is?

Ballpark it based on the best studies available? 1%? 0.5%? Its interesring that there were estimates of IFR at one time. But I havent seen a article in msm discussing IFR in months...hmmm

 

[1911addict42]

I’m sorry for your loss, sincerely. But there is a reality here that leadership in every country must take into account: do you crush the healthy citizenry for the few that actually do die from covid? If they can’t make that decision they don’t need to be in that position. People are going to die, this is fact. People are also going to die from car wrecks, flu and heart disease but no one is shutting down the economy over it or trying to control the populace with them. The actions by the governments with this are unique and not good.

I don’t agree with your posts regarding this or your conclusions, and you should have stated that background up front with your father. It might have saved at least some of the angst in this thread and would have definitely given some context to your perspective. Except about the 40 firearms, that’s kinda strange.

The virus will claim more lives. We need to adjust to that and move on instead of cowering in fear.

I did mention it in my post...
No loss... yet. He didn’t die, but was close. There are effects that are still lingering, some may be serious.
This winter will provide a lot more information about what this thing actually is, because there’s no way in hell the US will lockdown again, barriNg a major catastrophe

 

[AngryKoala]

spike in what? testing or sick people?
hospitalizations is probably a better indicator, but even that reporting is sporadic and hard to gauge.

National Data: Hospitalization

Currently hospitalized, ICU, and ventilator numbers in the US for each day from January 2020 to the present.

covidtracking.com

Hospitalizations would be the go to for that but as you pointed out, hard to gauge.

 

[AngryKoala]

So wait. We are locking down countries, destroying peoples lives causing real damage in suicides, drugs, mental issues for something we have no clue at all how deadly it actually is?

Ballpark it based on the best studies available? 1%? 0.5%? Its interesring that there were estimates of IFR at one time. But I havent seen a article in msm discussing IFR in months...hmmm

Only thing msm cares about now is orange man bad syndrome. I almost wish we had two parralel universes, one in which Trump wins and one in which Biden wins. Then we could observe the reporting in each scenario. I could only imagine the disparity in reporting between those two scenarios on covid.
Another kicker will be the vaccine once that is released....I am not signing up for that one.

 

[E. Bryant]

spike in what? testing or sick people?
hospitalizations is probably a better indicator, but even that reporting is sporadic and hard to gauge.

National Data: Hospitalization

Currently hospitalized, ICU, and ventilator numbers in the US for each day from January 2020 to the present.

covidtracking.com

It appears that the data is being updated daily by the HHS, but not released to the public:

Internal Documents Reveal COVID-19 Hospitalization Data The Government Keeps Hidden

Where are hospitals reaching capacity? Which metro areas are running out of beds? NPR has learned federal agencies collect and analyze this information in detail but don't share it with the public.

www.npr.org

Yeah, I know, NPR, blah blah blah.

I don't know if this data is of use to the general public, but I'm generally in favor of letting information be set free.

 

[1911addict42]

Only thing msm cares about now is orange man bad syndrome. I almost wish we had two parralel universes, one in which Trump wins and one in which Biden wins. Then we could observe the reporting in each scenario. I could only imagine the disparity in reporting between those two scenarios on covid.
Another kicker will be the vaccine once that is released....I am not signing up for that one.

The vaccine... JFC. That is going to be such a shit show. I know I’m not taking it , no way

 

[6.5SH]

The vaccine... JFC. That is going to be such a shit show. I know I’m not taking it , no way

Why not? Isn't it your civic duty to do so if the government says so?

 

[OldSalty2]

Only thing msm cares about now is orange man bad syndrome. I almost wish we had two parralel universes, one in which Trump wins and one in which Biden wins. Then we could observe the reporting in each scenario. I could only imagine the disparity in reporting between those two scenarios on covid.
Another kicker will be the vaccine once that is released....I am not signing up for that one.

You may not have a choice of you want to function in society.

Either way the IFR fascinates me. People were also told that 1. there are not many asymptomatics then 2. wait, yes there are and they can spread covid to 3. asymptomatics are NOT a main concern for transmission to 4. strike that, watch out for the millions of diseased asymptomatics.

I like pointing out the lack of IFR because it is so critical to making decisions that impact 100s of millions of people. If I were into conspiracies, I would say that data is being surpressed...but now, thats not possible either, right?

 

[theLBC]

I did mention it in my post...
No loss... yet. He didn’t die, but was close. There are effects that are still lingering, some may be serious.
This winter will provide a lot more information about what this thing actually is, because there’s no way in hell the US will lockdown again, barriNg a major catastrophe

another breakdown in leadership
there is no reason your dad could not have been transported and admitted to one of many hospitals in the state that were almost empty and would probably welcome some income since their normal activities were curtailed.

 

[OldSalty2]

The vaccine... JFC. That is going to be such a shit show. I know I’m not taking it , no way

Not even to keep your 48 new guns?

 

[theLBC]

Why not? Isn't it your civic duty to do so if the government says so?

i'm not refusing anything but, my body my choice.
don't they use this as justification to kill millions of babies?

 

[OldSalty2]

i'm not refusing anything but, my body my choice.
don't they use this as justification to kill millions of babies?

Not the same.

 

[theLBC]

Not the same.

because babies have no right to live?

sorry, if my not being vaccinated is a danger to you, imagine if i was allowed to carry a gun.

 

[6.5SH]

i'm not refusing anything but, my body my choice.
don't they use this as justification to kill millions of babies?

Reply wasn't for you. Was for the OP and for what I'd hoped were obvious reasons.

 

[Praetorian_6]

what scholarly article?
i was not refuting your stupid post, merely pointing out that masks are not effective in the way they are commonly used.

I apologize for the misunderstanding, then. I've got my cackles up in this thread and apparently assumed the worst from you.

how many of the 2,839,205 that died in 2018 MIGHT have had the flu?

This is something the other analysts at work and my family including a nurse and a coroner have a pretty mixed view on. Hard to separate the myths from the facts. It's also apparently incentivized as money gets funneled to those places most affected.

How blown out of proportion is it? Unknown. The answer to your question, for it to have any connection to reality would require an estimation of incidence rate of the flu in the general population and it would have to account for seasonality. Doable, but not without considerable research and model development. It's not a beer math kind of calculation.

And why are you here? Do you even shoot firearms? Do you even know what long-range precision is?
Or are you just another paid troll here to stir the pot?

I can understand your assertion. I'm new to the forum, but I'm legit. I didn't come here to troll. I'm not an ELR guy yet, but I know my way around a rifle. I made an introduction thread if you want to know more.

 

[1911addict42]

Reply wasn't for you. Was for the OP and for what I'd hoped were obvious reasons.

I’ll let you rub your two brain cells together and have faith youll figure out the difference

 

[6.5SH]

I’ll let you rub your two brain cells together and have faith youll figure out the difference

I am disappointed, surely you can do better that that.

 

[mkollman74]

See what I did there...?

 

[OldSalty2]

because babies have no right to live?

sorry, if my not being vaccinated is a danger to you, imagine if i was allowed to carry a gun.

Cmon man.

One is politically expedient and is good for a couple million single issue voters (and yet is inherently racist).

The other gets you labeled a whack-job, nutcase, etc...and has real social consequences. However, the tide could be turning (and you may have an unlikely friend) as cali gov newsom is pretty damn skeptical of a "trump vaccine". But idk, if covid is gods gift to the left maybe they never want to "cure" it?