Lone Wolf and records

[TurboTrout]

Interesting info.

So lone wolf distributors refuses to delete personal info even for non firearms sales.

They cite that it’s a “business law” to keep your personal info when asked to purge such info seeing the overreaches of the ATF and polymer 80s recently.


Interesting.

 

[...]

Tax purposes?

 

[Romeo458]

If they didn't your credit or debit card would still have a log of it, and will willfully give that information to the government if they want it.

 

[THEIS]

Hi,

Are you referring to distributors or dealers?

As for as the "Why" your personal information is even taken to begin with.
Accounting systems are connected to the personal information in regards to the profit and expenses of your purchase.
No company is not going to have proof of their actual shipping expenses, etc etc for their tax accountant.
No company is not going to NOT keep the record of purchase with your personal information in case you call back one day for a RMA, etc etc.

Edited To Add.
I would be more worried about what Amazon is doing with your personal information than what a Lone Wolf Distributor is doing with it.

Went with this one

https://www.amazon.com/Accu-Shot-Freeland-Anschutz-Adapter-Sticker/dp/B01A3N18HM

still debating a hand stop.

one question, I was about to order a bipod and it got me to wonder, with how easy it is to remove and install a railed bipod these days, do most here have a bipod, sling, bags for each rifle, or do they swap one between their platforms?

I never was into swapping or quick changing a scope for the zero, but a bipod hmm

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[TurboTrout]

Hi,

Are you referring to distributors or dealers?

As for as the "Why" your personal information is even taken to begin with.
Accounting systems are connected to the personal information in regards to the profit and expenses of your purchase.
No company is not going to have proof of their actual shipping expenses, etc etc for their tax accountant.
No company is not going to NOT keep the record of purchase with your personal information in case you call back one day for a RMA, etc etc.

Edited To Add.
I would be more worried about what Amazon is doing with your personal information than what a Lone Wolf Distributor is doing with it.



Sincerely,
Theis

Some rail adapter isn’t going to get the same attention from our just “there to help” ATF as a company who sells 80% lowers.

According to the Idaho tax board, who I called, there is no reason they need to retain my personal records, especially for a sale made well past this fiscal year, and one that didn’t contain a firearm.

I’d rather they just saw I paid them X money via my bank statement but had no idea what I purchased. There is no reason for them to refuse to remove these records, especially in light of recent news.

 

[THEIS]

Hi,

I get what you are saying but a State Tax Office doesn't really have a say in the matter of Business itemizations and such for Federal Taxes.
No company is going to blank their accounting/POS records to not know what you purchased but yet retain that you purchased something in case you have to return it for replacement or repair.

Here is the list of Taxes your Idaho personnel deal with:

Federal level taxes along with C Corp, S Corp, C Corp filing as S Corp, etc etc filings are typically a little outside the States' wheelhouse.
What your requesting is that the CCPA and/or the USA as a whole adopt the GDPR compliance procedures...but actually greatly adding to them.

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[TurboTrout]

Hi,

I get what you are saying but a State Tax Office doesn't really have a say in the matter of Business itemizations and such for Federal Taxes.
No company is going to blank their accounting/POS records to not know what you purchased but yet retain that you purchased something in case you have to return it for replacement or repair.

Here is the list of Taxes your Idaho personnel deal with:
View attachment 7500824

Federal level taxes along with C Corp, S Corp, C Corp filing as S Corp, etc etc filings are typically a little outside the States' wheelhouse.
What your requesting is that the CCPA and/or the USA as a whole adopt the GDPR compliance procedures...but actually greatly adding to them.

Sincerely,
Theis

For a record over 3yrs old, IMHO I don’t think that holds water, zero reason to keep that record in light of the recent illegal ATF raids.

The bank records are there with their merchant processing, I didn’t buy any firearms, booze, etc, and taxes were collected at the time of purchase.

Is there a law I’m missing?

Wonder if they refuse if I would have legal recourse if those records were used in a way later found to be damaging to me?

 

[...]

Wonder if they refuse if I would have legal recourse if those records were used in a way later found to be damaging to me?

 

[THEIS]

Hi,

Except that the IRS is not limited to auditing just this years Corporate tax returns, or last years, or year before that, or year before that.

So even though on emotional level you are correct, on a business level in regards to what a business does is on them and their corporate tax team.

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[THEIS]

Wonder if they refuse if I would have legal recourse if those records were used in a way later found to be damaging to me?

Hi,

And on that note..I am out, lolol

Everyone preaches Freedom and getting rid of big Government, yet the Business owner is not free to make their own tax record decisions without someone being intrigued if said business does not comply with a request...they can be sued.

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[hollowoutadime]

I've written software for about 30yrs. My customers want to be reprint orders, look at movement, have an accounting trail for everything. Nobody in that time wanted an app to blank records (some of that for nefarious actions by employees). Obviously we do some purges of old data (where the business doesn't need the data). Unless your transaction was done off CL, or by cash in a retail store, expect it to last forever - make good choices with anything online or with your cell phone.

 

[TurboTrout]

My choices are golden and legal, the issue I have is we have a government that’s been more and more over reaching every year and acting outside of the law.

I also still don’t get the tax thing.

Can someone post where you need to keep a full list of all orders from years back? Not just X money in sales for goods/services from Mr Trout?

They have a record of money coming in from me, seems no good need to have a breakdown of exactly what I ordered years ago

Seems they don’t care about their customers outside of being able to send marketing emails and get money, which is their right, just as it’s mine to give my business to the gazillion other companies who make the same type of product.

 

[TurboTrout]

Hi,

And on that note..I am out, lolol

Everyone preaches Freedom and getting rid of big Government, yet the Business owner is not free to make their own tax record decisions without someone being intrigued if said business does not comply with a request...they can be sued.

Sincerely,
Theis

So where is the law that they need to keep a detailed list of exactly what I purchased?

Wouldn’t
Sale - goods - Mr Trout - $100.00 - tax $5.37
Meet said requirement

 

[TurboTrout]

If they didn't your credit or debit card would still have a log of it, and will willfully give that information to the government if they want it.

Which only shows I pay X amount for who knows.


Which is fine by me, actually I think it’s BS, but it’s acceptable enough.

 

[...]

My choices are golden and legal, the issue I have is we have a government that’s been more and more over reaching every year and acting outside of the law.

I also still don’t get the tax thing.

Can someone post where you need to keep a full list of all orders from years back? Not just X money in sales for goods/services from Mr Trout?

They have a record of money coming in from me, seems no good need to have a breakdown of exactly what I ordered years ago

Seems they don’t care about their customers outside of being able to send marketing emails and get money, which is their right, just as it’s mine to give my business to the gazillion other companies who make the same type of product.

....i take it youve never been through an audit....

also, you think those other companies arent keeping the same records?

 

[hollowoutadime]

so did you buy one of those auto sears for a glock? (don't answer in the affirmative)

 

[10ring'r]

I've wondered the same thing. I have orders that are 3-4 years old from Midway, Brownells, etc., etc., I've called them to ask...why?? I always get the answer....."For our records", for 4 damn years?? I want to go back to paying cash for everything. Mac

 

[TurboTrout]

....i take it youve never been through an audit....

also, you think those other companies arent keeping the same records?

Must be special audits in Idaho

As a test I called a few other 80% companies, one based in CA, even more crazy nonsense laws, they purge their records after 2yrs and will delete customer info on request.

Also the Idaho state tax board says that also makes no sense

My CPA also doesn’t get it.

so did you buy one of those auto sears for a glock? (don't answer in the affirmative)

So have you had sex with your cousin? (Don’t answer in the affirmative)


On a side note, apparently polymer80 stores their customer data in the cloud for anyone who ordered from them.


It’s funny the amount of pushback I’m getting on this on a apparently pro 2A forum. Guess some here are the “I support the 2A....but” types and support gun registries?

I didn’t even buy anything on that tax list, no booze, no firearms, etc.


When it comes to my customers (non firearms industry) I don’t WANT any info beyond what I’m required to have, zero interest in storing it, being responsible for it, and why would I want it anyways, that’s some J Edgar Hoover level creepy

 

[...]

It’s funny the amount of pushback I’m getting on this on a apparently pro 2A forum. Guess some here are the “I support the 2A....but” types and support gun registries?

so you committed a voluntary transaction, and willingly gave over your personal information....and because YOU dont like how a private company runs their business, we all now somehow "support gun registries"?

how does supporting a companies liberty to operate as they please have anything to do with our feelings towards the 2A?


or should companies adjust their policies every time a Karen calls up complaining?

 

[TurboTrout]

so you committed a voluntary transaction, and willingly gave over your personal information....and because YOU dont like how a private company runs their business, we all now somehow "support gun registries"?

how does supporting a companies liberty to operate as they please have anything to do with our feelings towards the 2A?


or should companies adjust their policies every time a Karen calls up complaining?

True. Their company their rules, however if they didn’t hide the fact that they basically have their own digital searchable permanent “registry” of 80%s they sell, a database they will not remove you from even if you ask, I’d wager they would do less in sales, I know I would have just bought from one of a dozen other places.

It’s ok if you like Karens keeping private records of who owns what, I just think that’s creepy, pervasive and not inline with individual liberty, especially with the recent actions of big gov, and the predictable push for them to take those records, records that right now don’t have to exist.

Seems obvious that you wouldn’t want to keep such records if you support the idea of why good citizens might want to build a 80, aside from it being very fun.

So the guy who wants privacy and others to stay out of his business is a Karen?

To be clear, the reason for this post wasnt a cry to gov to “please do something”, their business their rules, my reason was simply a warning, do NOT buy anything from lone wolf if you don’t want to be on their forever registry.

 

[...]

dude, i hate to break this to you....but EVERY company is keeping tabs on what you buy, what you browse, where you go.....unless you are paying cash and living with the amish, your information is being stored......im not sure what year you think you are living in, but this is nothing new.

fuck, you better throw your cell phone out right now.....and burn your computer.....hell, you better fake your death just to be safe.

hell, you posted that you own a P80 on this forum.....i sure hope the ATF doesnt subpoena IP addresses from the forum, theyll be shooting your dog in no time.

 

[TurboTrout]

dude, i hate to break this to you....but EVERY company is keeping tabs on what you buy, what you browse, where you go.....unless you are paying cash and living with the amish, your information is being stored......im not sure what year you think you are living in, but this is nothing new.

fuck, you better throw your cell phone out right now.....and burn your computer.....hell, you better fake your death just to be safe.

hell, you posted that you own a P80 on this forum.....i sure hope the ATF doesnt subpoena IP addresses from the forum, theyll be shooting your dog in no time.

Where did I say I bought a 80?

I said I bought stuff from a company that sells them.

And best of luck with my IP.

Your logic is odd, like if you have a collection company call about some parking ticket you didn’t know about, might as well stop paying all your bills?

How about try to fix all the weaknesses best you can, know you likely won’t achieve perfection, but settle on precision, or in this case avoiding companies who have forever registries.


I’m saying lone wolf has a crap policy that is very strange for a fire arms company selling 80%s and claiming to be pro 2A. Keeping records where records don’t need to be kept, when there is a good chance these records you don’t need to keep might be taken and used against, or at least to bother, your customers.

So update.
Apparently the reason they won’t remove a record is because they are required by law to keep records of anything that might be assembled into a firearm, even if no firearm was purchased.


order from them, don’t, I wanted to do the right thing a let folks know something I found out that seemed odd to me.