6BR family: Other than Varget?

[earthquake]

What successful powders are y'all Dasher and BR/BRA/X/D shooters using other than Varget? Been hearing a lot about how Varg likes to torch throats, and I seem to be chasing lands in mine a lot!

I'm gonna try and use up the last of my 110 smk this year in my Dasher, and finish my 105 hybrids in the 6BR. I've only ever used Varget and played a bit with H4895.

Who's got a good recipe for heavies in a Dasher? It's a 26" HH 7.5 twist. I still have Varget, but I can use it in my other stuff. Thanks!

 

[Lynn Jr]

RE15 won me a trophy but try H4895 as well.
H4350 if you go to 115-117 grain bullets.
3025-3050 FPS out of 28-30 inch barrels using 0.104 freebore chambers.
If you have more freebore your velocity will go up a few FPS.

 

[Kiba]

RL16 is awesome in my 6 dasher for 105s and also in a 22BR for 75s. Slightly compressed loads but not enough for uneven seating depth, great velocity/es/sd and pressure is lower than the previous varget loads. If you want to push the pressure envelope with RL16 in a Dasher you'll need a long drop tube and it will be a decently compressed load.

As mentioned above H4350 also works well in the dasher for the 6mm heavies and packs in a little better because of the smaller kernels compared to RL16, but it will still be a mildly compressed load.

RL15 works well too, and H4895 also works well and will leave room in the case-- it's a better choice for a straight BR.

 

[BLKWLFK9]

I havent heard of anyone using H4350 in their BRs. I've got 500 dtacs. what's a good starting load?

 

[Lynn Jr]

I tried it in a standard 6BR and the case isn't big enough. My reamer has 0.104 freebore and you can't put enough in to get into pressure problems with H4350 and a 115 DTAC.
It works better in a Dasher.

 

[KWilson]

RL15 or H4895. Less pressure with RL15 however.

 

[earthquake]

My Dasher is a 0.104 fb. Not sure what the 6BR is, but both were chambered by PVA, so probably the same....

So, H4895 for the 110's in Dasher,
and RL15 for the 105's in 6BR?

Was that the consensus? My BR is only 24" though, cuz I thought I was gonna run it suppressed most of the time. ??‍

 

[Lynn Jr]

Earthquake
I ran RE15 into many 6 Dashers with a 0.268 neck and 0.104 freebore.
A touch over 33 grains will get you world class accuracy with a 103-108 class bullet. The 10 shot group pictured was at 600 yard NBRSA match and was an official screamer group.

 

[Banango]

Anyone tried shooters world precision?

 

[jsthntn247]

4895, arcomp, 8208xbr if you have a 104 free bore. RE16 or 4350 if you have a 130 or longer.

 

[XLR308]

4895, arcomp, 8208xbr if you have a 104 free bore. RE16 or 4350 if you have a 130 or longer.

I was going to suggest AR-COMP as well for a Varget replacement.
Haven't used it in 6BR but it has pretty much replaced Varget for me in 308 and 223.
Just keep in mind it has a faster burn rate than Varget and you may not get the same speeds and find pressure signs sooner.
When I first started using it I couldn't find it on any burn rate charts so I used the 68spc with a 20" barrel as a test round and confirmed for myself that it is indeed faster burn rate than Varget.
I know powders don't allways behave in a linear fashion due to bore to case ratio from caliber to caliber but in the 68spc the answer was definitive as there was no way to get enough Varget in the case to see pressure or decent velocity but at max fill with AR-COMP was getting respectable velocity and no pressure.

 

[Steelnecktie]

In my 6BRA, H4895 was most accurate around 2975 fps. Pressure anything over 3000.
Varget was still less than 1/2 MOA consistently around 3050fps. Ran into pressure at 3100 FPS.
This is with a 28” barrel and 107gr bullets

 

[lightman]

Varget seems to be the favorite. The V V powders starting at 135 work well as does H4895.

 

[Geno C.]

My brx shoots h4350 better than varget. 34.4gr under 105 hybrids

 

[Banango]

Just tested shooters world precision. 2930 in a 26" dasher using norma dasher brass and 105 rdf

 

[Banango]

You like the underdogs don't you...

Norma brass came with the gun. I've been one of the lucky ones to have success with the rdfs so I keep shooting them for now.

 

[A&8's]

H4350 behind a 105gr hybrid for straight 6BR?

I typically load 28.9g of Varget @ 2825fps out of Lapua brass and a 28" 1:8 tube.

I only have a little over 3lbs of varget, but have about 30lbs of H4350. I have a couple classes at LRI in Oct. (+\- 900 round count), plus a couple local matches between now and then.

I called Berger and they said 30-32.6g of H4350. Has anyone had good luck with 4350 in a straight 6BR?

 

[BLKWLFK9]

H4350 behind a 105gr hybrid for straight 6BR?

I typically load 28.9g of Varget @ 2825fps out of Lapua brass and a 28" 1:8 tube.

I only have a little over 3lbs of varget, but have about 30lbs of H4350. I have a couple classes at LRI in Oct. (+\- 900 round count), plus a couple local matches between now and then.

I called Berger and they said 30-32.6g of H4350. Has anyone had good luck with 4350 in a straight 6BR?

i haven't seen anyone use 4350 with a BR but i have a dasher.

 

[Geno C.]

i haven't seen anyone use 4350 with a BR but i have a dasher.

Use 4350 in Jamie’s brx

 

[Geno C.]

I wonder if cfe223 would work. It’s burn rate is between Varget and h4350

 

[Geno C.]

 

[unleashedprecision]

I've had good results with 8208 in my Dasher and recently experimented with 4064. The 8208 produces a little less speed than Varget while the 4064 will go faster. Both are extremely consistent for me.

 

[Kjohnson 1972]

I'm shooting 32.0 of H4350 in my BR. 27" hart 1:8 - 2850 - 105 hybrids

 

[kindabitey]

Shooters World Precision Rifle/ Match Rifle/ or Long Rifle
RL15
VV N150/ N140/ N540
H4895

 

[A&8's]

Due to the lack of Varget, I done some development with H4350 in my straight 6BR.

28” 1:8 Bartlein, with 456 rounds down the tube
2300DA

Started at 31.0g, in .2 increments up to 32.8g. Speeds went from 2644 to 2810, with a node between 32.2 (2770fps) and 32.6 (2778fps.)
I loaded up 5 each at 32.3, 32.4 and 32.5 and shot for group size, ES and SD at 200yrds. Below is what I settled on:

32.4g
Avg: 2764fps
ES: 11
SD: 4.0
Group size: .57” (.27 moa.)

 

[Geno C.]

We’re you able to reach pressure, or did you run out of case capacity?

 

[A&8's]

We’re you able to reach pressure, or did you run out of case capacity?

Neither. I actually ran out of time. lol I may load up some more from 33 and up and see what/where the faster node is. Not sure yet. It seems with varget and H4350, that barrel likes the 2760-2800fps area. I doubt if I could get much more than, say, 33.5g of H4350 in there, though.

 

[Hoyt7mm]

I'm going to run RL-16 in my new dasher barrel. Initial results show 2915 with 34.9gr and a 105 Hybrid. The heavies (110+) were low 2800s at 34.0.
Barrel should be close to sped up, so I'll be retesting this week to narrow down powder nodes.
105s were shooting shooting same holes with 33.6 @ 2830...thinking of just staying there.

 

[Stretched3gunner]

Due to the lack of Varget, I done some development with H4350 in my straight 6BR.

28” 1:8 Bartlein, with 456 rounds down the tube
2300DA

Started at 31.0g, in .2 increments up to 32.8g. Speeds went from 2644 to 2810, with a node between 32.2 (2770fps) and 32.6 (2778fps.)
I loaded up 5 each at 32.3, 32.4 and 32.5 and shot for group size, ES and SD at 200yrds. Below is what I settled on:

32.4g
Avg: 2764fps
ES: 11
SD: 4.0
Group size: .57” (.27 moa.)
View attachment 7423261

How did your class go with the 4350 load? Same boat with Varget hard to find but having loaded for 6CM I’m good on 4350

 

[Stretched3gunner]

How did your class go using the 4350?

 

[orkan]

I run almost nothing but H4350 in my 22BR, 6BR, and 6 Dasher. It produces the widest, most stable, and longest lasting nodes I've ever found with those cartridges.

If you're one of those people that wants 3075fps out of your 6 dasher... you can forget about it. However, if precision and accuracy are the primary driving forces in your life, it's difficult to beat H4350.

 

[Stretched3gunner]

I run almost nothing but H4350 in my 22BR, 6BR, and 6 Dasher. It produces the widest, most stable, and longest lasting nodes I've ever found with those cartridges.

If you're one of those people that wants 3075fps out of your 6 dasher... you can forget about it. However, if precision and accuracy are the primary driving forces in your life, it's difficult to beat H4350.

Thanks, 6BR barrel is on its way.. consistency is the key. Did you end up using 33+ or did you stay in 32.8? Looking for a starting point for me as well

 

[earthquake]

Wow, just saw this thread is still going from Jan. 2019. I've since had pretty good results in mine with H4895 this year. I loaded some of that formula up (H4895 & Hornady 105 BTHP) for my son at the GAP Grind. He did great with it, going 8/9 on the 800-1,000 yd stage.

Kind a a fitting post, for different reasons now that powder is hard to come by. I still have one jug of Varget and have since obtained a jug of 8208xbr I'm looking to try next year.

 

[orkan]

Thanks, 6BR barrel is on its way.. consistency is the key. Did you end up using 33+ or did you stay in 32.8? Looking for a starting point for me as well

My primary load in my main 6BR is 31.5gr H4350 behind a 107SMK. That load produces a node in that rifle which will withstand a 40rnd string of rapid fire and not shift. Varget would not do half that before rearing its ugly head.

 

[BoilerUP]

My primary load in my main 6BR is 31.5gr H4350 behind a 107SMK. That load produces a node in that rifle which will withstand a 40rnd string of rapid fire and not shift. Varget would not do half that before rearing its ugly head.

Is my memory incorrect or did you run a short (16.5" rings a bell) 6BR a few years back?

Thanks!

 

[orkan]

Is my memory incorrect or did you run a short (16.5" rings a bell) 6BR a few years back?

Thanks!

That's correct.

 

[Timo Turl]

30gr N150 is giving me 2800, 31gr gives 2850 and no pressure signs. 28' barrel.

 

[A&8's]

How did your class go with the 4350 load? Same boat with Varget hard to find but having loaded for 6CM I’m good on 4350

It went perfect. I actually took an alternate positions class on Saturday, then Movers class on Sunday, followed by PR1/PR2 Monday thru Friday. The H4350 worked like a champ.
I’m definitely glad I found a stable and consistent load.

 

[lush_dawg]

This is good to hear...I have 24lbs of H4350 and switching to a straight BR. Can’t get my hands on varget and was hoping to use up this H4350...

 

[Mr. F]

In for more info on H4350 on 6BR...

 

[A&8's]

I have been running 32.4g of H4350 behind 105 hybrids in my straight BR, since early Sept of last year and haven’t had any issues.

When I went to Tx for a Rifles Only class, I was smacking 1moa plates out to 1K.

Since I have returned, I realize my barrel is on its way out. From 800y and out, it’s a crap shoot were my rounds go. But, inside 800y, all are still at 1moa or less.

Since the local match I shoot in the winter are inside 550y, I’ve decided to go ahead a run this barrel until spring. But I have a fresh barrel waiting in the wings once longer matches start up.

 

[Cardboard Assassin]

H4350 behind a 105gr hybrid for straight 6BR?

I typically load 28.9g of Varget @ 2825fps out of Lapua brass and a 28" 1:8 tube.

I only have a little over 3lbs of varget, but have about 30lbs of H4350. I have a couple classes at LRI in Oct. (+\- 900 round count), plus a couple local matches between now and then.

I called Berger and they said 30-32.6g of H4350. Has anyone had good luck with 4350 in a straight 6BR?

Would that much H4350 fit in a 6BR case?

Like you I have a ton of H4350 but zero Varget. I have found that H4350 meters better for me on my charge master and in theory with H4350 being slower than Varget it should help with recoil and barrel life (win win).

I`m deciding between BR & BRA and now I'm leaning BRA as the extra capacity will lend itself better to the H4350 route. If for some reason that dont work I can switch to Varget and pretend I'm running a regular 6BR.......

 

[Joel Danielson]

I`m deciding between BR & BRA and now I'm leaning BRA as the extra capacity will lend itself better to the H4350 route. If for some reason that dont work I can switch to Varget and pretend I'm running a regular 6BR.......

The exact opposite is the direction taken by most competitors I shoot against that are shooting the BRA. Most (me included) have gone to H4895.

A powder to look for if you are out checking small gunshops that sell reloading supplies: IMR4320 is a great replacement for Varget. Old school powder that works well in 6BR size cases. You will be a lot faster than trying to compress the amount of 4350 in a little case. I can get 2850 without pressure any time of year (tweak load by a half grain for hot months) with it in 6BR. I have never tried it in the BRA, but it would be over 2950 if you are shooting a barrel length of 28". Good luck

 

[blbennett1288]

@Joel Danielson I believe IMR 4320 was discontinued in Q1 of 2020

 

[Joel Danielson]

@Joel Danielson I believe IMR 4320 was discontinued in Q1 of 2020

Still some floating around out there. I just picked up 4 lbs this week at a little bait and tackle shop. It doesn't have the new fancy packaging and labeling as a "extreme" powder that many newer reloaders think is all that will work. I started out shooting old mil-surp powder that was poured into your container from a 15 lb keg at the store...yes, I'm that old.

 

[GoldieMI]

following along

 

[Cardboard Assassin]

The exact opposite is the direction taken by most competitors I shoot against that are shooting the BRA. Most (me included) have gone to H4895.

A powder to look for if you are out checking small gunshops that sell reloading supplies: IMR4320 is a great replacement for Varget. Old school powder that works well in 6BR size cases. You will be a lot faster than trying to compress the amount of 4350 in a little case. I can get 2850 without pressure any time of year (tweak load by a half grain for hot months) with it in 6BR. I have never tried it in the BRA, but it would be over 2950 if you are shooting a barrel length of 28". Good luck

Thanks for the info.

The vibe I'm getting is that 6BR / 6BRA are not fussy to load for and a wide range of powders will work.

 

[Joel Danielson]

Thanks for the info.

The vibe I'm getting is that 6BR / 6BRA are not fussy to load for and a wide range of powders will work.

There are several powders that work well, but some are better than others. I started with a 6BR quite a few years ago, and was told " 30 grains of Varget with a 105 hybrid and BR4 primers seated 10-15 off". Varget is not the barrel burner some think it is. I just retired a 6BRA barrel that had 3100+ rounds on it, and would still shoot cleans at 600 with less than 2" vertical. That only had Varget used. R15 works great as long as you watch temps and humidity when it gets up into the 90+ range. In most cases you need to back off a half grain to stay in a node for velocity anyhow.
VV 140 and 540 are great as well.
Are you watching any of the World Jrs.? We may have to start talking some shit here in a day or two...
Cheers

 

[Cardboard Assassin]

There are several powders that work well, but some are better than others. I started with a 6BR quite a few years ago, and was told " 30 grains of Varget with a 105 hybrid and BR4 primers seated 10-15 off". Varget is not the barrel burner some think it is. I just retired a 6BRA barrel that had 3100+ rounds on it, and would still shoot cleans at 600 with less than 2" vertical. That only had Varget used. R15 works great as long as you watch temps and humidity when it gets up into the 90+ range. In most cases you need to back off a half grain to stay in a node for velocity anyhow.
VV 140 and 540 are great as well.
Are you watching any of the World Jrs.? We may have to start talking some shit here in a day or two...
Cheers

Ive competed in / followed a lot of sports over the years but hockey ain't one, Ive probably watched 2 games in my entire life so an authority I am not......

 

[orkan]

Varget is not the barrel burner some think it is.

I think with a cartridge that is efficient as 6BR, it isn't about what burns barrels faster... because it's not hard on barrels anyway. Though its more about what stays in a node longer. Powders with slower burn characteristics, when combined with heavy per cal bullets, typically will provide a more gentle pressure curve and will subsequently produce a wider node.

Remainder of post not directed at @Joel Danielson, but rather for general informational purposes.

A byproduct of this more elongated and more gentle pressure spike, is its typically easier on the barrel. More barrel life is never a bad thing, after all. As a result, I typically will run the slowest powder I can get away with. This typically provides the best case fill and the most consistent performance across the widest range of conditions and round count. I'd rather lightly crunch kernels than have free space in that case. If you can combine that with a 40 degree shoulder angle and a long barrel, you can really see some extremely wide nodes. In an attempt to quantify this by some measure, you can go from having a node that's 1 grain wide, to having a node thats 1.5-2.5 grains wide.

As with all things ballistics, there's a piece to this equation that hasn't been talked about much: The barrel. The right answer from a component selection standpoint is always going to be driven by first hand experience with the specific barrel/rifle system you are working with. Threads like these serve as a guide only. Someone else's ability to tune their rifle will not make your rifle shoot better. The bulk of my work is done on Benchmark barrels which are produced by TS Customs. Despite the fact that I've received positive feedback from many customers that have tested my component recommendations on their various brands of barrels/rifles... there is still the ever present variable of what your individual barrel will like. Your brand might not play well with common component choices. In order for you to know, you must do. There is no shortcut. There is no trick. There is no advice that can be substituted. Some barrels will simply not respond well to commonly held recipes. Subsequently, if you really want to get your rifle shooting, you can not assume the .38 MOA performance offered by the "internet golden load" to be the best it can shoot unless you've done adequate testing to ensure no further advances can be made. You may have your preferences regarding bullet selection or powder choice, but the rifle/barrel needs to be listened to.

You may also be short on time and the common internet golden load might shoot well enough for your liking and you'll just run with it.

There are no wrong answers which meet your requirements. If you're happy with how something is performing, then you're happy. However, unless you've done the work you won't know... Unless you've done it on dozens of rifles in that same chambering, you won't have a wider understanding of the cartridge.