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6BR family: Other than Varget?

I think with a cartridge that is efficient as 6BR, it isn't about what burns barrels faster... because it's not hard on barrels anyway. Though its more about what stays in a node longer. Powders with slower burn characteristics, when combined with heavy per cal bullets, typically will provide a more gentle pressure curve and will subsequently produce a wider node.

Remainder of post not directed at @Joel Danielson, but rather for general informational purposes.

A byproduct of this more elongated and more gentle pressure spike, is its typically easier on the barrel. More barrel life is never a bad thing, after all. As a result, I typically will run the slowest powder I can get away with. This typically provides the best case fill and the most consistent performance across the widest range of conditions and round count. I'd rather lightly crunch kernels than have free space in that case. If you can combine that with a 40 degree shoulder angle and a long barrel, you can really see some extremely wide nodes. In an attempt to quantify this by some measure, you can go from having a node that's 1 grain wide, to having a node thats 1.5-2.5 grains wide.

As with all things ballistics, there's a piece to this equation that hasn't been talked about much: The barrel. The right answer from a component selection standpoint is always going to be driven by first hand experience with the specific barrel/rifle system you are working with. Threads like these serve as a guide only. Someone else's ability to tune their rifle will not make your rifle shoot better. The bulk of my work is done on Benchmark barrels which are produced by TS Customs. Despite the fact that I've received positive feedback from many customers that have tested my component recommendations on their various brands of barrels/rifles... there is still the ever present variable of what your individual barrel will like. Your brand might not play well with common component choices. In order for you to know, you must do. There is no shortcut. There is no trick. There is no advice that can be substituted. Some barrels will simply not respond well to commonly held recipes. Subsequently, if you really want to get your rifle shooting, you can not assume the .38 MOA performance offered by the "internet golden load" to be the best it can shoot unless you've done adequate testing to ensure no further advances can be made. You may have your preferences regarding bullet selection or powder choice, but the rifle/barrel needs to be listened to.

You may also be short on time and the common internet golden load might shoot well enough for your liking and you'll just run with it.

There are no wrong answers which meet your requirements. If you're happy with how something is performing, then you're happy. However, unless you've done the work you won't know... Unless you've done it on dozens of rifles in that same chambering, you won't have a wider understanding of the cartridge.
My concern with compressed loads will not be with a powder like H4350, but with a powder like R17 that has a quick spike when it reaches the top of the curve. I also look at the length of barrels that are being shot, and wonder if the pressure curve has had the necessary time to work properly on a heavy for caliber bullet (20" or less). The powder is usually burned within the first 6-8 inches of the barrel, but that doesn't account for the pressure curve.
As you said, every barrel is different. I have two 6mm barrels I am testing right now in 6BRA (Brux and Bartlein). The Bartlein is showing a preference for Varget over H4895 already, and it has less than 200 rounds on it. Brux is a 4 groove(.236) and the Bartlein is a 5R(.237). Every barrel is different and you need to do your own testing to figure out what works best.
 
I also look at the length of barrels that are being shot, and wonder if the pressure curve has had the necessary time to work properly on a heavy for caliber bullet (20" or less).
Very good point here... barrel length can work against an otherwise worthwhile combination. It's noteworthy that this too is a barrel specific behavior. I've run H4350 with 105's with excellent results in a 16" 6BR. It isn't as if varget or H4895 would be rated at 100% burn in that situation, but despite that fact, even the slower powders will have a tendency to provide a wider node than the faster powders.

Don't mistake my post as advocacy for a textbook "compressed load." It certainly underlines the importance of being very specific when making considerations for the different workable powders. Each have their own very specific characteristics that can create issues if not properly anticipated. I've witnessed varget go from running just fine, to pressuring up and raising POI by 3 tenths over the course of 20 rounds. To date, I've not had 4895 or 4350 exhibit that behavior. What that tells me is that varget rides the line too hard and can slip off the node for various reasons as the round count expands. H4895 will invariably be more stable because it swings hard to the fast characteristic, and thusly H4350 will also be a better choice because it's pressure curve runs the other way, to the smoother side of things. I'm still left in amazement that Varget ever became the "golden child" for 6BR based cartridges. It can certainly work, and I'm glad its an option, but it can be very disappointing too.

Another intrinsic benefit of running slower powders is, most of the time you could dunk the case in a jar of powder, fill it to the top of the mouth, crush a bullet in there... and it would still be safe enough to shoot. When running the faster powders, you're likely to experience some damage if that were done. An extreme example... but noteworthy none the less, as it illustrates the forgiveness.
 
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Very good point here... barrel length can work against an otherwise worthwhile combination. It's noteworthy that this too is a barrel specific behavior. I've run H4350 with 105's with excellent results in a 16" 6BR.

Don't mistake my post as advocacy for a textbook "compressed load." It certainly underlines the importance of being very specific when making considerations for the different workable powders. Each have their own very specific characteristics that can create issues if not properly anticipated. I've witnessed varget go from running just fine, to pressuring up and raising POI by 3 tenths over the course of 20 rounds.

What was the barrel life using H4350? Barrels are a tool that have to be replaced regularly as part of our sport, but I would want to be able to see 2K plus on a barrel without the throat being toast. I go through that many rounds on a p-dog shoot in SD every year.

Another concern will be OAL on seated rounds. I have used compressed loads for a .284 with 4831 that moved .005+ over the course of a week. Used an arbor press at the match to seat bullets right before each relay I shot. That was back when it was hard to find H4350, and I had found a high node with 4831 that worked really well during testing. Lessons learned...
 
What was the barrel life using H4350?
A bit over 2500rnds right now, and it will still shoot in the .3's and .4's real easy. However, I don't think this barrel will be very scientific as it pertains to barrel life... I spent quite a bit of time zinging 55 noslers at 3225fps in the pdog towns. ;)

I'm going to do a BRA here at some point... and I'll feed it a steady diet of H4350 if it likes it... then I'll have something worth reporting.
 
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I have used compressed loads for a .284 with 4831 that moved .005+ over the course of a week.

After you seated them, they crawled out later? Wow... must have been some crunch on those when seating! I've had to run my seating die adjustment as much as 10 thousandths deeper to overcome the additional resistance during seating... but can't say I ever had them try to sneak out over time after they were seated. That's wild.
 
I think the one upside to this whole situation (if you can call it an upside?) is that people are coming up with loads for something other than varget
 
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Following this and also curious if anyone had tried 6.5 Staball in a straight BR.
I think I’ll load up a pressure test and see how it goes. I’ve only got a 25” barrel this year since I’m expecting my Maverick so I’m interested in options of powder.

Shooters World Precision ran pretty darn slow but with good case fill. I broke my barrel in on 28g at 2620fps.
I’ll post up speed/ pressure results on staball.
 
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Given the current situation and the trouble finding the big four (Varget, 4895, RL15, 4350) for a 6BR, I'm considering using some of the others that I've found data on around the web. Sierra lists Accurate 4064, I think Hornady lists Accurate 2520, and I've read about 8208 and Benchmark across some other forums and pages when using lighter (75-90) pills. I'm using 108ELDMs and am looking for any one with some experience in this that may be willing to chime in. I've got 8 lb'ers of 8208, Benchmark, and the 4064. Two of the 2520 - I have a line on more should someone think it's worth it.

Anyone have data on these with the 108s they'd be willing to drop? 26" (1 in 7.5tw Bartlein.)

(Whats going to happen is I'm going to find a recipe that works, have my barrel sped up, head out for the first match, and find a jug of Varget on the local shop shelf...)
 
I’m Varget rich, but my go to powder for 6 Dasher is VV N140.
AI AX 26” Bartlein 1-7.5
VV N140 @ 31.8 GR
Lapua Brass
CCI 450
Berger 105 and 109 @ 2,880 FPS
The load shoots absolutely amazing.

VV N140 is a great powder, clean and seems fairly stable here in the Texas heat.

I run N140 in my Dasher and 223 Rem.
The 223 Rem is a hoot.
N140
AI AX 223 conversion w/ 26” Bartlein 1-7
Lapua Brass
CCI 450
69 Gr SMK, 73 Gr ELD’s and 80 Gr ELD’s all like the N 140…
 
I second the N140, my 6 BRA fireforming load is 29.6 gr, gets me about 2780 with 105's. N150 also ought to work, but I'd expect 8208 to be too fast for 108's.
 
I've seen N140 mentioned as well as N540. Both are reviewed highly. If only they were available. I'll add it to the list of options to keep an eye on for sure though. Thanks.
 
N150 shoots good in my dasher but is very temp sensitive I’ve been trying imr 4166 the speed is great so far and seems to shoot alright to
 
I ran 4350 in my dasher a few weeks ago just to see. I was astonished. Sds of 3-5 in five shot strings and more velocity than I got with varget. That said my varget offerings were low because of pressure. With the 4350 I did not get pressure and had velocities right at 3000. Thats with a 26 kreiger And 107 smk. Ran it a few times just to make sure.
 
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Just adding a data point here - put together my rifle yesterday: 6BRA on a Lone Peak Fuzion, PVA prefit, and Foundation Centurion. Based on what I read online I loaded 50 rounds of Alpha Brass with 107 SMKs and 30 grains of H4895 20 thou off the lands. I ended up getting 2913 fps and this load was a little hot. Given that it was 25 degrees out, I think this load is a no go. Probably going to drop to around 28.5 - 29.0 and work up a lower node.

Kind of a shame because 30gr shot unbelievably well.
 
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Revisiting this thread, any results for dasher, 105s and CFE223?
I'd love to hear results with CFE as well, it's great in Grendel, it should work pretty well here too. I'm not enough of a reloader to recommend anything to others, but I may try this for myself and see if it's acceptable.
 
N150 and RL 15.5 seem to be doing well for 6BR substitutes. I have been told that loads with N150 are = to Varget (but N150 is much dirtier), and RL 15.5 is +.2 grains to equal Varget. Both are more temperature stable from everything i'm hearing.
 
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Always read N140 was equal to Varget. N150 is closer to H4350, which does do well in 6BR.
 
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New 6BR shooter for PRS. I have limited amount of Varget, H4895, and Re15. Interested in experience with Ar Comp, TAC, CFE223, and A2520 with 6BR with 105/107/112 for PRS.
 
Ive heard the same. I have about 14lbs of N150 set aside for a new 6mm Bartlein MODBB barrel and 500pcs of Peterson brass. I haven't broken any of it out yet but I like the idea of a slower than conventional powder idea. I shoot 4350 in my Dasher and a powder in between Varget and 4350 sounds perfect for BR.

Yup. Ive got about 32lbs of N150 set aside for dasher/25cm. im waiting to shoot all of my other powder before dipping in to the N150
 
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