Does this look like decrimped to you?

[thexman]

Tried to use the Frankford Primer Pocket Swagger tool to decrimp some Lake City 7.62NATO brass after decapping it.

Not much information online on how to set up and properly use the swagger tool. And tried a few brass, found out there is not much difference comparing to the brass which haven't been decrimped using the swagger tool.

Wondering if this looks like decrimped to you? Same brass, just different angle.

Thank you.

 

[CZp-01]

Have you tried to seat a primer?

Looks like it still has most of the crimp still there.

 

[Steel head]

Looks like more adjustment is needed.
Does a primer go in?

 

[Winningdog]

What I do, set the swager too the minimum, swager one try a prime. If needed set a little deeper and try again. I don't like to swager any more than needed.

 

[thexman]

No, I haven't tried to seat a primer yet.

From what I can see, it does not seem the swager pin have done anything particular or not enough to the crimp. This is the larger pin it comes with, the smaller one I believe it is for 223.

If I push too hard, the pin will stuck inside the primer pocket, gonna need a screw driver to separate the pin within the brass. A couple of videos I found on youtube, seems pretty easy on the crimp. Unfortunately neither has a closer look.

 

[Molon]

A factory loaded round . . .

De-primed case . . .

A properly swaged primer crimp using a Dillon Super Swage . . .

A re-primed case after swaging the primer crimp . . .

....

 

[thexman]

A factory loaded round . . .

View attachment 7537494





De-primed case . . .

View attachment 7537502




A properly swaged primer crimp using a Dillon Super Swage . . .

View attachment 7537510



A re-primed case after swaging the primer crimp . . .

View attachment 7537512



....

Thank you for the photos.

Maybe it's my eyes, but I really can't tell there is any obvious difference between the de-primed one (left) and the swaged primer crimp one(right).
View attachment 7537502View attachment 7537510

If I measure using a caliper, would I expect noticeable difference?

 

[spife7980]

I can sure see a difference in them.

Get a little pick and feel for a lip.

 

[Deleted member 113831]

You usually can't tell if a pocket is swaged enough with your eye...until you ruin it.

I got a set of these primer pocket gauges, no guess work.

3 gage pack, small and large primer pocket and .224/308 neck tension

Case mouth gauge or gage for determining neck tension of 223, 5.56, 308, 30/06, etc. Large primer and small primer pocket gauge

ballistictools.com

 

[Molon]

Thank you for the photos.

Maybe it's my eyes, but I really can't tell there is any obvious difference between the de-primed one (left) and the swaged primer crimp one(right).
View attachment 7537502View attachment 7537510

If I measure using a caliper, would I expect noticeable difference?

There's a significant difference between the two. Look at the distance between the red arrows in the same pics placed side-by-side below.

...

 

[thexman]

There's a significant difference between the two. Look at the distance between the red arrows in the same pics placed side-by-side below.


View attachment 7537724


...

Thank you.

From the top I can't really tell if that part you indicated is on the side or bottom of the primer pocket.

Should I say, 1-2mm difference in primer pocket diameter?

 

[thexman]

You usually can't tell if a pocket is swaged enough with your eye...until you ruin it.

I got a set of these primer pocket gauges, no guess work.

3 gage pack, small and large primer pocket and .224/308 neck tension

Case mouth gauge or gage for determining neck tension of 223, 5.56, 308, 30/06, etc. Large primer and small primer pocket gauge

ballistictools.com

View attachment 7537619

Thank you.

This would be some tools good to have, save a lot of time to guess.

 

[thexman]

There's a significant difference between the two. Look at the distance between the red arrows in the same pics placed side-by-side below.


View attachment 7537724


...

Wonder when you use the Dillon Super Swage, do you always see the crimp pulled out of the primer pocket like a broken ring? Or the super swage just push the crimp to the side of the primer pocket, make it thinner enough to seat the primer?

 

[6.5SH]

Wonder when you use the Dillon Super Swage, do you always see the crimp pulled out of the primer pocket like a broken ring? Or the super swage just push the crimp to the side of the primer pocket, make it thinner enough to seat the primer?

If you look at the shape of the swage tip and the shape of a crimped pocket you should be able to tell. A crimped pocket will have a sharp step. Once swaged the tip is pushing that step out and back almost into a funnel shape

 

[Molon]

Wonder when you use the Dillon Super Swage, do you always see the crimp pulled out of the primer pocket like a broken ring? Or the super swage just push the crimp to the side of the primer pocket, make it thinner enough to seat the primer?

Here's a pic of a virgin Lake City case that has been primed. Notice that there is a radius at the mouth of the primer pocket.

The Dillon Super Swage presses the crimped material away from the inside of the primer pocket and recreates that radius at the mouth of the primer pocket. The pic below shows a cut-away 223 Remington case in the Super Swage allowing you to see how the swaging rod works.

....

 

[angelballer]

I'm liking the AmmoBrass Swage Setter so far for the convenience. Gives the same info as the piece of cutaway brass minus having to make it.

AmmoBrass Swage Setter

The AmmoBrass Swage Setter is for use with many swaging devices, Dillon 1050 presses, and almost any other swaging device to assist you in properly setting your swage rod and swage back-up die.These Swage Setters are not compatible with the Dillon Supper Swager 600. These are caliber specific...

www.ammobrass.com

Bought my set from Dillon a month or two ago to avoid the wait.

swage swaging tool

swage swager swaging tool

www.dillonprecision.com

 

[Cascade Hemi]

Wonder when you use the Dillon Super Swage, do you always see the crimp pulled out of the primer pocket like a broken ring? Or the super swage just push the crimp to the side of the primer pocket, make it thinner enough to seat the primer?

The Super Swage pushes the crimp out back into the case head. The indentation from the crimp on the case head face will still be present as an artifact of the crimping process. You are looking for the primer pocket corner to be radiused when properly swaged.

 

[MarinePMI]

I'm liking the AmmoBrass Swage Setter so far for the convenience. Gives the same info as the piece of cutaway brass minus having to make it.

AmmoBrass Swage Setter

The AmmoBrass Swage Setter is for use with many swaging devices, Dillon 1050 presses, and almost any other swaging device to assist you in properly setting your swage rod and swage back-up die.These Swage Setters are not compatible with the Dillon Supper Swager 600. These are caliber specific...

www.ammobrass.com

Bought my set from Dillon a month or two ago to avoid the wait.

swage swaging tool

swage swager swaging tool

www.dillonprecision.com

Interesting idea! Gonna have to make one of those...

 

[MarinePMI]

Well. That took all of 5 mins....neat idea for setting up/viewing the amount of crimp!

 

[thexman]

Just got a reply from Frankford Arsenal, they claim Lake City brass doea not have military crimp, is this true? I found different information online, some saying LC has, some saying dependa on the lot.

 

[Molon]

Just got a reply from Frankford Arsenal, they claim Lake City brass doea not have military crimp, is this true? I found different information online, some saying LC has, some saying dependa on the lot.

From my first post in this thread . . .

 

[Mudflap621]

Sounds like FA doesn’t know what they are talking about lol

 

[FuhQ]

We used automated Dillon 1050's at the machine gun range, and used Dillon swager rods with Mighty Armory swaging dies. We also made our own cutout cases for swaging depth guides.

For my personal repurposed LC and mil-surp brass that I reload, I use an RCBS primer crimp cutter chucked into a drill. Takes a second or 2 per case, and it's done forever. Quick, simple, bevels the outside pocket edge like high-end Lapua and Nosler brass, no priming issues, no guessing whether or not the crimp is gone. Works perfectly.

Just my $0.02...

 

[zeroz]

I understand primers cost $10 each now, but just try to seat one. If it presses in nice, you have enough swage. If you have to start to force it, back off and swage more. If the sum bitch slides in without force and or falls out, you over swaged.

 

[supercorndogs]

Depends on the LC brass. Range pick up LC brass mostly is crimped. The boxes of LC brass you buy new, no.

 

[thexman]

Depends on the LC brass. Range pick up LC brass mostly is crimped. The boxes of LC brass you buy new, no.

Thank you.

So if I buy bulk in those loose packed 500rounds Lake City Federal 7.62NATO ammo, they are not crimped?

 

[spife7980]

Thank you.

So if I buy bulk in those loose packed 500rounds Lake City Federal 7.62NATO ammo, they are not crimped?

If they have not had a primer in them they will not be crimped.

 

[6.5SH]

Thank you.

So if I buy bulk in those loose packed 500rounds Lake City Federal 7.62NATO ammo, they are not crimped?

LC factory ammo will be crimped, the new un-primed LC brass that sometimes shows up as a component is not.

 

[thexman]

Yeah, I did buy the factory ammo, so it is crimped.

And what Frankford arsenal claimed is wrong.

Thank you.

 

[TxWelder35]

Loaded ammo is all crimped

Thank you.

So if I buy bulk in those loose packed 500rounds Lake City Federal 7.62NATO ammo, they are not crimped?

 

[thexman]

So I did try to load a primer using Frankford Arsenal's own hand primer tool. It doesn't allow me to.

Measured the CCI BR2 primer, 0.211inch in diameter, the primer pocket's diameter is about 0.208inch for the "decrimped" Lake City 7.62NATO brass.

Does the measurement sound like the swager tool working to you? I am not sure if I should force to load the primer in with the 0.003inch diameter differences. I was on about 7-8pounds pulling force, it didn't let me load the primer.

 

[Mudflap621]

I’d run your swage rod out a bit more and try again.

 

[Molon]

So I did try to load a primer using Frankford Arsenal's own hand primer tool. It doesn't allow me to.

Measured the CCI BR2 primer, 0.211inch in diameter, the primer pocket's diameter is about 0.208inch for the "decrimped" Lake City 7.62NATO brass.

Does the measurement sound like the swager tool working to you? I am not sure if I should force to load the primer in with the 0.003inch diameter differences. I was on about 7-8pounds pulling force, it didn't let me load the primer.

You should never try to "force" a primer into the primer pocket. What are you using to measure the primer pocket diameter?

 

[FLIGHT762]

If you use a magnifying glass or a jewelers loupe, you will see the sharp edge of the crimp on the edge of the pocket. A properly swaged pocket, you will see that sharp edge had been rolled off.

In your first post photos, that sharp edge has not been rolled off. Keep adjusting.

 

[thexman]

You should never try to "force" a primer into the primer pocket. What are you using to measure the primer pocket diameter?

I used a caliper.

And it seems SAMMI spec for large rifle primer pocket diameter is between 0.2085 to 0.2100. Mine is 0.208inch, which is at the smaller side of the range( I guess my caliper is not those high end one, so I give 0.0005inch tolerance on measurement.). I also checked a few Federal Gold Medal once fired 308 brass, the primer pocket size without that crimped wing in Lake City ones is also about 0.208inch. Seems that's the right size after decrimped?

 

[Mudflap621]

You can lead a horse to water but u can’t make him drink.
You stated yourself u can’t seat a primer so obviously it’s not decrimped. I’d recommend u order those ballistic tool go and no-go guage it makes it simple for you to check wether you Swaged enough or not.

 

[Molon]

I used a caliper.

And it seems SAMMI spec for large rifle primer pocket diameter is between 0.2085 to 0.2100. Mine is 0.208inch, which is at the smaller side of the range( I guess my caliper is not those high end one, so I give 0.0005inch tolerance on measurement.). I also checked a few Federal Gold Medal once fired 308 brass, the primer pocket size without that crimped wing in Lake City ones is also about 0.208inch. Seems that's the right size after decrimped?

a. You are not going to get accurate measurements of the diameter of a primer pocket using the ID feature of regular calipers.

b. You are not going to obtain an accurate measurement of the radius at the mouth of the primer pocket using regular calipers. De-crimping isn't just about moving the crimp to the same diameter as the primer pocket. You need to reproduce the radius at the mouth of the primer pocket to help prevent primers from "snagging" when seating them; particularly if you are priming on a progressive press.

c. You are waaaaay to hung-up on the notion of trying to obtain a measurement of the amount of crimp removed. Simply look at it. Use magnification if you have to as FLIGHT762 suggested. Use the pictures I posted above as a guide.


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