Rifle Scopes Illuminated Reticle, Pros and Cons

[sirhrmechanic]

Just ordered a USO 5-25 T-PAL w. MPR reticle (Thanks, Doc!). Not sure how much I needed it, but having owned an ST-6 and found the glass, knobs and reticle utterly superb, I definitely wanted one!

Debating whether to add illuminated reticle to the package.

My only (limited) experience w. illuminated reticle was in a night shoot training using a borrowed NF scope. The Illum just washed out my night vision. I hit the targets, but it wasn't comfortable or smooth or quick. But it was just a one-time use and I really didn't put the scope through its paces.

I would value people's input on pros and cons of an illuminated reticle. Use will be by LEO, primarily daytime <300 yd. in rural area. If I can get a grant for -22 -27 or Simrad, it may get used w. NV.

Thanks in advance, I am interested all kinds of input, esp. from fellow LEO M/O's.

Sirhr

 

[SPDSNYPR]

Re: Illuminated Reticle, Pros and Cons

I have found that if I can see the target at all, I can see the reticle. In LE, being able to see the target is pretty damned important.

On the last couple of scopes we bought, we got illuminated reticles, and we never use them. The illumination is visible from the front, and like I said the illumination didn't really help anything. If it was so dark out we couldn't see the reticle, we couldn't see and ID the targets at all. Of course, this was not on USO scopes, so that may make a difference.

 

[Supersubes]

Re: Illuminated Reticle, Pros and Cons

My experience is just like both of you, but my rifles aren't for work. They're good for resale value, but thats about it. I have no experience with NV, so I can't comment on that.

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: Illuminated Reticle, Pros and Cons

When I've needed one I was glad I had one.

I get them just because I'd rather have and not need than need and not have.......

 

[Supersubes]

Re: Illuminated Reticle, Pros and Cons

What I found was that if if I was able to get an ID on the target, I was able to see the crosshair anyway. If the light was low enough and I could just barely make out the target, turning the Illum. on made the target disappear. I can see it working better on a cqb gun in close with both eyes open.

 

[clmayfield]

Re: Illuminated Reticle, Pros and Cons

Sounds like the rheostat needed to be turned down, which is a disadvantage of the NF scopes, it is kind of a hassle to adjust.

Still, there is not really a disadvantage to having one. You can always turn it off. I guess the disadvantage is cost. And in some scopes, the knob interferes with your view of the parallax knob, which I never look at while dialing anyway.

BTW, I rarely use it. But I have on a couple of occasions.

 

[1812]

Re: Illuminated Reticle, Pros and Cons

The only value an illuminated reticle has is; if, in the middle of the night, you get the sneaking suspicion that your reticle has up and left your scope, you can reassure yourself that it hasn't without turning the lights in the house on. You can grab that rifle in the dark, turn that dopey fucking thing on, look through it and say, "Yup, it’s still there!" and go back to sleep. That's about it.

 

[Captain Kirk]

Re: Illuminated Reticle, Pros and Cons

Well, I have owned many scopes with illuminated reticles over the years, only used them once I can remember. With that said, I have a tactical match this weekend with a night shoot, and no illuminated reticle in the stable.....

Better to have it than not

Kirk R

 

[salmonaxe]

Re: Illuminated Reticle, Pros and Cons

Lowest settings on the USO's Rheostat is way more usable than nearly every other brand's illuminated reticle I've used. It didn't kill my nightvision or make the target impossible to see.

Here in WA, the light quality during winter is pretty terrible, so the illumination helps get about an hour more of shooting in.

 

[700summit]

Re: Illuminated Reticle, Pros and Cons

1812 that was funny

 

[popeye089]

Re: Illuminated Reticle, Pros and Cons

we have them in our scopesand just take out the batteries to avoid the battery leak issue. Never have needed them. If anything another cover to lose IMHO, but we all have opinions so please don't hang me LOL

 

[RBell24]

Re: Illuminated Reticle, Pros and Cons

I have one, and have had a couple with IR. The only time I ever wanted one was when I had two coyotes get my wind at night. Finally got them stopped in some tall broom weeds at about 350yds or so couldn't make out the CH in my scope to shoot at eyes, not that I would've been able to hit them.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Re: Illuminated Reticle, Pros and Cons

So, mainly at Doc's suggestion, I added the illum reticle to the package. It can't hurt, right?

As a couple of folks said, I can always take the batteries out or leave it turned off. And who knows, maybe I will end up wondering how I ever lived without it???

Thanks for all the input.

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: Illuminated Reticle, Pros and Cons

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KRock459</div><div class="ubbcode-body">a tactical match this weekend with a night shoot, </div></div>

that's when I decided that if at all possible I have them.

There's also been many times in my experience that the conditons were such that the reticle washed out amongst the background and target enough that a little illum on the reticle made better shots much faster.

again, better to have and not need than need and not have.

 

[Target In Sight]

Re: Illuminated Reticle, Pros and Cons

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sirhrmechanic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So, mainly at Doc's suggestion, I added the illum reticle to the package. It can't hurt, right?

As a couple of folks said, I can always take the batteries out or leave it turned off. And who knows, maybe I will end up wondering how I ever lived without it???

Thanks for all the input.

Cheers,

Sirhr </div></div>


You have made a wise choice~

 

[Hawk4357]

Re: Illuminated Reticle, Pros and Cons

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sirhrmechanic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So, mainly at Doc's suggestion, I added the illum reticle to the package. It can't hurt, right?

As a couple of folks said, I can always take the batteries out or leave it turned off. And who knows, maybe I will end up wondering how I ever lived without it???

Thanks for all the input.

Cheers,

Sirhr </div></div>

Exactly.Sure,you may never use it but at least you have it if you ever do want to use it.

 

[thelurcher]

Re: Illuminated Reticle, Pros and Cons

I think they make night shooting with a spot lamp a lot easier - same goes for stalking in the early morning or late evening when you just have the silhouette of the animal but a lot of the time there's not enough contrast to pick out the cross hairs.

 

[shooter6.5]

Re: Illuminated Reticle, Pros and Cons

+1 on exactly what
Corkonian said. When you get a bit older there are times in lessor light conditions that you have difficulty finding those cross hairs. It is important to keep the setting as low as possible and do the job. If the setting is too high it will tend to blur the crosshairs.

The illuminated reticle does not light up the target, just the reticle. I would not have any aiming devise without illumination. I can think of no disadvantage to having it available unless it is the additional cost. You do not need to us it, but it is nice to have.
I have done some night hunts with scopes and a surefire light with a red filter, and without the illumination I would never have been able to get on the target quickly.

I have two US optics with illumination and am very pleased with them.

 

[AtownBcat]

Re: Illuminated Reticle, Pros and Cons

You guys are missing the best use for the illuminated reticle...shooting deer at night with a spotlight....poaching will never be the same....

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Re: Illuminated Reticle, Pros and Cons

As an LEO (this is going on a duty rifle) the only animals this will be pointed at will be the kind with warrants. But the night spotlight thing is a good point. I will have to try it with arc lighting. That may be very useful.

And as I work with our game wardens (and "Stuffy" the animatronic decoy deer) on a regular basis... I'll pretend I didn't hear those comments.

Cheers, Sirhr

So a few years ago, the game warden sees Herbie Sweetser dynamite fishing, which is illegal. He rides his boat over and says "Herbie, you know you can't fish with dynamite. You have to come in with me and I have to arrest ya." And Herbie takes a stick of dynamite and lights it and throws it in the warden's boat. He says to the warden: 'Boi Jesis warden, you gonna talk, or are you gonna fish?'

 

[RTH1800]

Re: Illuminated Reticle, Pros and Cons

I like to shoot a fairly fine reticule that sometimes fades at dusk and by moonlight. I can see the animals fine, but the reticule is less than distinct. I use it at it's lowest setting. It has made some doubtful shots certain. I do not use it often, but when I need it, I am darn glad it is there. JMO

 

[thelurcher]

Re: Illuminated Reticle, Pros and Cons

AtownBcat - I can see how you'd think from my post alright - I didn't think yanks did sarcasm

- personally I don't shoot much at night at all - the odd fox if asked to - and never deer although I know plenty of wasters that do.

I think it's pretty standard in most countries to be allowed to shoot Deer 'from one hour before sunrise to one hour after sunset' - I know that's the case here - i have an S&B with 50mm obj but no IR on my swede and my eyes are young enough still but I've struggled at times in the twilight - won't buy another scope unless it has an IR.

 

[crawdad1]

Re: Illuminated Reticle, Pros and Cons

They are nice for night shooting, but on the downside it is something extra not to work.

 

[Target In Sight]

Re: Illuminated Reticle, Pros and Cons

The OP is getting an USO, so chances are, it will work. Not saying it will never break, but just like anything else, we are not discussing the odds here.

 

[mouse07410]

Re: Illuminated Reticle, Pros and Cons

I tried two scopes in night conditions - Vortex Razor HD and Russian POSP. I didn't shoot (neighbors wouldn't like it

) - just tried to evaluate what can one see through a scope at night and whether illuminated reticle makes any difference.

My experience: if the darkness is complete (no lights, no moon, nothing) - of course you see nothing through the scope and illuminating your reticle does not help. However in real conditions - urban in particular - there would be <span style="text-decoration: underline">some</span> light (dark, but not 100% dark), and reticle illumination helps a great deal. You <span style="text-decoration: underline">can</span> see your targets, and illuminated reticle allows aiming.

How likely is it that you'd need to use your scope in such conditions - that's a totally different question, of course.

 

[rkgsmith]

Re: Illuminated Reticle, Pros and Cons

I would not go without mine. We shoot Leupy TMR's, and to me the crosshairs are so fine at night the lit reticle just helps out. On a recent barricade we had the front of the house lit up with flood lights and for some reason I had a hard time seeing the black crosshairs due to reflection/light bounce back, not sure what. But with the red cross hairs it was GTG. I also have a UNS to use, but I really like the lit reticle.

 

[223man]

Re: Illuminated Reticle, Pros and Cons

I just did my first night shoot last friday with some friends. We illuminated the target with a sure fire g2 and then for shits and giggles we threw a chem light out their and turned of the g2. Once we did that all I could see of my retical was what little bit was lined up with the chem light. I wish I had the battery in my scope for that. By the way the night shoot was not supposed to be a night shoot it just kinda happened that way that's why I didn't take batteries with me, lol. But then I was thinking about some thing I don't know if anyone else had mentioned this, but what about using the illuminated retical during the day time for getting on the target faster? Kinda like having a red dot on a M4 or something like that. I have not tried it my self bet if one of you guys have let me know what you thought of it. Thanks

 

[ah6oy]

Re: Illuminated Reticle, Pros and Cons

Not sure if the scope will go there but if it isn't adjustable or if the lowest setting that light starts is too bright try running the battery down some before using it. The military CCO has 3 of the lowest setting so that you only see it with nvg's. It would be nice if more manufacturers delving into lighted recticle would go all the way in the setting to be more combat oriented.

 

[Advokaten]

Re: Illuminated Reticle, Pros and Cons

Having a zeiss diavaria Ilum and a PMII Ilum,

and yet another Zeiss Variopoint Ilum,

I feel that the proper setting and use of an ilum reticle is such that I can shoot and hit things othervise not shootable,

so for hunting and marksmanship they are great, I do not shoot for LEO/Mil applications.

So in short and in the decision between not getting an Ilum and getting a scope with, there is no question.

Get it, you dont have to use it.

/Chris

 

[mouse07410]

Re: Illuminated Reticle, Pros and Cons

Yes illumination adjustment can be a big thing. On my Vortex it's beautifully adjustable - one can fine-tune the brightness and "leave it there" (light positions are interspersed by switch-off). And on POSP - there's one position only but it seems to be well-balanced, at least I felt comfortable with the brightness of the reticle against everything else in the field of view.

 

[TORQ]

Re: Illuminated Reticle, Pros and Cons

if ya want to run nvg u need the illumination

 

[Muffo]

Re: Illuminated Reticle, Pros and Cons

I mainly shoot long distance at night with a spot light and the iluminated recticle is a HUGE help. trying to see the cross recticle when targeting a dark grey or black animal is very hard without it. I only ever use the lowest setting tho, if I turn it up it just drowns everything out

 

[mouse07410]

Re: Illuminated Reticle, Pros and Cons

I wonder how NVG and illuminated reticle co-exist - i.e. whether even the lowest illumination setting doesn't conflict with the NVG. Considering "special" night vision equipment - I'd probably just pick an NV scope and be done with it.

 

[RTH1800]

Re: Illuminated Reticle, Pros and Cons

mouse,
There is a window of light conditions that are too bright for NVD's and too dark to see the reticule without Illumination.
About the something else to break comments, so what, you are still just as well off as if you did not have it, so that is not a downside to me.
At one time I used a S&B 8x56 w/o illumination. I would loose the reticule in some conditions and that of course never happens with the NF 2.5-10x24 IR. It is smaller and more efficient. JMO

 

[mouse07410]

Re: Illuminated Reticle, Pros and Cons

Rth, my point and my question was: (as I understand) one can use <span style="text-decoration: underline">either</span> NVD (when conditions warrant) <span style="text-decoration: underline">or</span> illuminated reticle (when conditions warrant), but <span style="text-decoration: underline">not both</span> at the same time. This was in response to a post mentioning (as I understood) using illuminated reticle with NVD.

 

[USACS]

Re: Illuminated Reticle, Pros and Cons

My experience with night shooting began with an ACOG in The Sandbox outside An Nasiriyah. I remember one night sitting in the desert and looking at a local ass clown trying to sneak up on our position on top of an abandoned building in an Observation Post camp the size of a McDonald's parking lot. I remember it being a normal night and seeing the guy with my PVS-14 NVG very clearly. I also remember putting the NVGs back on the sandbag and putting my rifle up to my shoulder and looking through the ACOG and realizing how dark the ground was for some reason. I was able to see the guy's silhouette, and I was able to track him with the tritium illuminated red reticle and accurately range him with said reticle. I also remember thinking to myself how I never would have been able to do that without the illuminated reticle, as the black reticle would have been nearly invisible against the dirt and shadows of the wadis when looking from my elevated position. The only option to resolve it would have been night vision, but we weren't cool enough to have the NVG attachments. After that, I've been a firm believer in illuminated reticles for the aforementioned "just in case" scenario that others have described. Now I only buy tactical scopes with illuminated reticles.
It was because of the illumination that I was able to effectively use the reticle and scope for the intended use.

 

[223man]

Re: Illuminated Reticle, Pros and Cons

Just over the weekend I had finished building my 20" ar15 and the only scope that I have is a center point from wally world.
Yes I know, but any way it has two options for illumination,red and green. So put it on my ar and dialed in for 100yrds. Then it was getting dark so I figured I would get some night shooting out of the way sense I have only done it a few times at this point. So then I was messing around with the red and green and found that using green (on the lowest setting) was way better for shooting at night as it did not drowned out the target like the red did. Has anyone else found this to be true?

Thanks

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: Illuminated Reticle, Pros and Cons

Green may look nicer against the background at night, but keep in mind that red doesn't fry your natural night vision. A quality scope will have the illumination control such that the brightness doen't drown out the target. I like mine just barely visible.

 

[223man]

Re: Illuminated Reticle, Pros and Cons

Thanks for the input sobrbiker883, I was wondering if getting a better scope would be the same. Also I didn't really notice a difference with the red or green with the natural night vision. But then again I was not paying attention to that aspect.

Thanx

 

[ZULUTAC]

Re: Illuminated Reticle, Pros and Cons

I'm with 1812. It's more of a distraction than anything at least for me. I never train with it on the range so never even think about using it on a call. I'd go basic. If you need to see your reticle, use your NV. If you don't have NV than illum the fuck out of the target location. I take it you're SWAT right? If you have the option let your team leader know you cant see what they NEED you to see. Sometimes blinding lights are a good thing. If you use them right you create a cloak of concealment.

 

[mouse07410]

Re: Illuminated Reticle, Pros and Cons

Sometimes you can floodlight the target, and sometimes you can't.

Then again, if you operate in and train for a given pre-defined set of situations - no reason to alter it until and unless the situation changes.

 

[ZULUTAC]

Re: Illuminated Reticle, Pros and Cons

Your right Mouse, spoken with wisdom. What a meant to add was that every time I needed my reticle lit, the threat was located behind glass at the back of a room. Turned it on the first few times just to realize now all I had was a more visible reticle and a still non or simi visible threat.

 

[Lindy]

Re: Illuminated Reticle, Pros and Cons

There are possible upsides to an illuminated reticle.

There are no possible downsides, save for the cost. Since my primary scope came with it, with no option not to have it, there was no downside.

If I bought a new scope with it as an option even at extra cost, though, I'd get it. The additional cost on every scope I've ever seen was a tiny fraction of the cost of the scope.

 

[ArcticFun]

Re: Illuminated Reticle, Pros and Cons

A blue illumination is very nice to have in my opinion, they have them on Konus Pro M30s (cheap as fuck but let me make my point). With the setting on it's lowest you can't even see it in daylight, you have to look at something black for it to even register. Looking through the exact same scope later that night the blue was about the thickness of a very fine recticle. It worked excellent as I switched from an illuminated sign (just saw a black recticle) then over to the black night behind it (blue this time). It was quite simply with various power setting. I agree with having and not needing than needing and not having, when peoples lives are on the line then there is no compromise when it comes to equipment. You wouldn't go bust a door down in the middle of the night without a light would you? Just like you shouldn't take a shot without being 100% certain that you can make it and either kill or disable the suspect. Better safe than sorry and I hope you never have to actually take the shot.

 

[jesseanderson2]

Re: Illuminated Reticle, Pros and Cons

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hawk4357</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sirhrmechanic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So, mainly at Doc's suggestion, I added the illum reticle to the package. It can't hurt, right?

As a couple of folks said, I can always take the batteries out or leave it turned off. And who knows, maybe I will end up wondering how I ever lived without it???

Thanks for all the input.

Cheers,

Sirhr </div></div>

Exactly.Sure,you may never use it but at least you have it if you ever do want to use it. </div></div>


My thoughts exactly