Rem/Age Swap

[jlorensen]

Currently considering a Rem/Age swap on one of my M700s from 22-250 to 6.5 Creedmoor. Current rifle is a VS model with 26" heavy bbl, and thinking about a 20" light varmint replacement. I also checked my magazine box, and it will fit my .308 handloads with a COL of 2.817, so I'm thinking I should be good in that regard. Lastly, from what I'm reading, the bolt should work for both.

Aside from getting all the parts/pieces, is there anything I'm not thinking of???

Thanks!

 

[Steel head]

Not as long as that barrel profile fits and it probably will
All three are a .473 boltface.

 

[spife7980]

My 6.5 creed loads are 2.9 something long. Make sure your box mag can accommodate something 2.87 at least imo. Not sure what any factory ammo lengths come in at.

 

[jlorensen]

My 6.5 creed loads are 2.9 something long. Make sure your box mag can accommodate something 2.87 at least imo. Not sure what any factory ammo lengths come in at.

Looks like I'll have to research some factory ammo COL for reference.

 

[Hkmiller]

Looks like I'll have to research some factory ammo COL for reference.

My magpul AI .308/6.5 mags are 2.9"

 

[jlorensen]

Not finding COL info for factory ammo well......any chance someone has some and can put in on a caliper?

 

[Whhood]

Any particular load?

 

[jlorensen]

I generally shoot Hornady factory ammo.....this rifle would primarily be for hunting deer out to 400 yds, so loads suitable for that.....otherwise, I'm open to hearing about whatever folks have on hand.

 

[Lost_Phil]

Not finding COL info for factory ammo well......any chance someone has some and can put in on a caliper?

Berger lists their ammo COAL as 2.810, which is the longest in factory ammo you will find other then maybe Black Hills. Most other load a COAL of 2.795, so you should be fine with your ADL-BDL setup. The one thing you might want to do when you order your barrel is to have the free bore shorten. Preferred Barrel Blanks did a video on this that explains why and when you would want to do this.

In most cases a factory BDL-ADL setup will only allow a COAL of 2.810, in less you get a fluke, and some of the aftermarket setups will allow a longer COAL of 2.850. Magpul AICS magazines allow a COAL of 2.860 (Listed on their website and also measured mine to confirm) and the metal AICS are 2.870 with the binder plate in the front and 2.950 without it.

 

[JAS-SH]

Not finding COL info for factory ammo well......any chance someone has some and can put in on a caliper?

Go to the SAAMI site. download the PDF for rifle cartridge specs / diagrams. It's all in there. Factory ammo stays within those specs.

Home - SAAMI

saami.org

6.5 Creedmoor Min COL - 2.700 / Max COL - 2.825 (subject to change but changes not published yet as far as I can tell). Page 39 of the current rifle standards.

But please don't take it from me on potentially dangerous stuff. Make sure to look it up yourself.

 

[Hkmiller]

Not finding COL info for factory ammo well......any chance someone has some and can put in on a caliper?

My Hornady Precision Hunter 6.5 with 143gr eld-x measures 2.8055

 

[KnowNothing256]

Berger lists their ammo COAL as 2.810, which is the longest in factory ammo you will find other then maybe Black Hills. Most other load a COAL of 2.795, so you should be fine with your ADL-BDL setup. The one thing you might want to do when you order your barrel is to have the free bore shorten. Preferred Barrel Blanks did a video on this that explains why and when you would want to do this.

In most cases a factory BDL-ADL setup will only allow a COAL of 2.810, in less you get a fluke, and some of the aftermarket setups will allow a longer COAL of 2.850. Magpul AICS magazines allow a COAL of 2.860 (Listed on their website and also measured mine to confirm) and the metal AICS are 2.870 with the binder plate in the front and 2.950 without it.

That’s cool info for those shooting factory loads; however, just reading the summaries, the SAAMI freebore shot better than other lengths with the 143 ELDX; everything else except the 130gr loads liked it too, so it doesn’t really make the case for a shorter free bore to me. The shorter throats seemed like they became more finicky across the spectrum of bullets/loads, which is probably not what a guy who has limited options is looking for. Also, more freebore resulting in lower pressures (lower speeds) and more consistency across bullets and speeds is in line with what Scott Satterlee has put out about his experimentation with freebore; while a hunter isn’t happy about slower speeds, the other benefits (longer barrel life, anecdotal from Satterlee) and more ammo flexibility certainly seem appealing.

 

[jlorensen]

Berger lists their ammo COAL as 2.810, which is the longest in factory ammo you will find other then maybe Black Hills. Most other load a COAL of 2.795, so you should be fine with your ADL-BDL setup. The one thing you might want to do when you order your barrel is to have the free bore shorten. Preferred Barrel Blanks did a video on this that explains why and when you would want to do this.

In most cases a factory BDL-ADL setup will only allow a COAL of 2.810, in less you get a fluke, and some of the aftermarket setups will allow a longer COAL of 2.850. Magpul AICS magazines allow a COAL of 2.860 (Listed on their website and also measured mine to confirm) and the metal AICS are 2.870 with the binder plate in the front and 2.950 without it.

@Lost_Phil .....free bore question for you. I have 2 .308 rifles (both Savage, but one with a prefit Criterion). Using a Comparator, I've seated 168gr SMKs about .020" off the lands. Those rounds chamber well in the prefit, but will not chamber in the factory Savage without some force, and when I eject that round, there is a pretty decent "drag mark" along the largest diameter portion of the bullet, which end at the case mouth. After reading about freebore a little, do you think there could be a burr at the spot where the freebore begins?

BTW....sorry for the newb-type questions, I've been shooting for a long time, but always basic hunting things....never really dug into the details much.

Thanks!

 

[Lost_Phil]

That’s cool info for those shooting factory loads; however, just reading the summaries, the SAAMI freebore shot better than other lengths with the 143 ELDX; everything else except the 130gr loads liked it too, so it doesn’t really make the case for a shorter free bore to me. The shorter throats seemed like they became more finicky across the spectrum of bullets/loads, which is probably not what a guy who has limited options is looking for. Also, more freebore resulting in lower pressures (lower speeds) and more consistency across bullets and speeds is in line with what Scott Satterlee has put out about his experimentation with freebore; while a hunter isn’t happy about slower speeds, the other benefits (longer barrel life, anecdotal from Satterlee) and more ammo flexibility certainly seem appealing.

Your 100% right, but you missed the mark as too why you may want to reduce the SAAMI free bore when running 6.5 Creedmoor. Most people don't realize that Creedmoor and the PRC's were designed to be magazine fed and this is why they have a longer COAL then 308 Win or 300 Win Mag. Now when you go to convert an older rifle like the OP is, you will either have to hand load the rounds or load them to shorter COAL that will fit your shorter magazine. So having all of that freebore is worthless if you cannot use it, like when you load VLD style bullets that like to be 0.020 off of the lands.

SAAMI COAL....
6.5 Creedmoor 2.825
308 WIN 2.810
6.5 PRC 2.955
300 WSM 2.860
300 PRC 3.700
300 WIN MAG 3.340

Another thing that most don't realize including myself, is that the AR platform is limited as well to due to the magazine COAL size of 2.830. This is another reason you see allot of shorter COAL 6.5 Creedmoor ammo.

 

[Lost_Phil]

@Lost_Phil .....free bore question for you. I have 2 .308 rifles (both Savage, but one with a prefit Criterion). Using a Comparator, I've seated 168gr SMKs about .020" off the lands. Those rounds chamber well in the prefit, but will not chamber in the factory Savage without some force, and when I eject that round, there is a pretty decent "drag mark" along the largest diameter portion of the bullet, which end at the case mouth. After reading about freebore a little, do you think there could be a burr at the spot where the freebore begins?

BTW....sorry for the newb-type questions, I've been shooting for a long time, but always basic hunting things....never really dug into the details much.

Thanks!

It's a good question and one most don't ask when they run into issues with their rounds not fitting in one barrel VS another.

Each barrel manufacture uses different chamber reamers/cutters that have different throat depths and chamber sizes. So you may have issues when your COAL is longer thein SAAMI since it pushes the ogive out closer or into the lands. You should always measure this to figure out your bullet depth. Berger Bullets has a good article on this called "Effects of Cartridge Over All Length (COAL) and Cartridge Base To Ogive (CBTO)".

In your case, it sounds like you might be hitting the lands in the factory barrel. I would take a black marker and mark the bullet all of the way around and see if you have a ring that go's around the bullet. If you do, you are hitting the lands. If not, then you might have a carbon build up or burr. But to me it sounds are hitting the lands.

also, if you do not have the measuring tools from Hornady, I would get them if you reload or planning to reload. O.A.L. Gauges & Modified Cases and Bullet Comparator.

 

[jlorensen]

It's a good question and one most don't ask when they run into issues with their rounds not fitting in one barrel VS another.

Each barrel manufacture uses different chamber reamers/cutters that have different throat depths and chamber sizes. So you may have issues when your COAL is longer thein SAAMI since it pushes the ogive out closer or into the lands. You should always measure this to figure out your bullet depth. Berger Bullets has a good article on this called "Effects of Cartridge Over All Length (COAL) and Cartridge Base To Ogive (CBTO)".

In your case, it sounds like you might be hitting the lands in the factory barrel. I would take a black marker and mark the bullet all of the way around and see if you have a ring that go's around the bullet. If you do, you are hitting the lands. If not, then you might have a carbon build up or burr. But to me it sounds are hitting the lands.

also, if you do not have the measuring tools from Hornady, I would get them if you reload or planning to reload. O.A.L. Gauges & Modified Cases and Bullet Comparator.

Thanks much! I do own the measuring tools, they make gathering this info much easier.

 

[jlorensen]

It's a good question and one most don't ask when they run into issues with their rounds not fitting in one barrel VS another.

Each barrel manufacture uses different chamber reamers/cutters that have different throat depths and chamber sizes. So you may have issues when your COAL is longer thein SAAMI since it pushes the ogive out closer or into the lands. You should always measure this to figure out your bullet depth. Berger Bullets has a good article on this called "Effects of Cartridge Over All Length (COAL) and Cartridge Base To Ogive (CBTO)".

In your case, it sounds like you might be hitting the lands in the factory barrel. I would take a black marker and mark the bullet all of the way around and see if you have a ring that go's around the bullet. If you do, you are hitting the lands. If not, then you might have a carbon build up or burr. But to me it sounds are hitting the lands.

also, if you do not have the measuring tools from Hornady, I would get them if you reload or planning to reload. O.A.L. Gauges & Modified Cases and Bullet Comparator.

Definitely into the lands, the Sharpie trick on a dummy round tells a pretty clear story.

 

[Holliday]

@Lost_Phil ....., and when I eject that round, there is a pretty decent "drag mark" along the largest diameter portion of the bullet, which end at the case mouth.

Are you holding the cartridge with your fingers centered as you eject it? Or are you letting the ejector slam it sideways against the chamber wall, lug recesses etc.?

 

[jlorensen]

I was not.....and that would probably explain why more Sharpie was rubbed off on one side.

 

[jlorensen]

After reviewing the info above, and talking to the folks at Northland Shooters Supply (who agreed with the above), I placed my order. Should be a great winter project. Only real bummer was a 20" prefit was 22 weeks out!!!!! Decided to go with a 24" that was in stock instead.....and I went with a light varmint profile.

 

[KnowNothing256]

After reviewing the info above, and talking to the folks at Northland Shooters Supply (who agreed with the above), I placed my order. Should be a great winter project. Only real bummer was a 20" prefit was 22 weeks out!!!!! Decided to go with a 24" that was in stock instead.....and I went with a light varmint profile.

If you decide you really want it shorter, it’s usually only $100-150 to get it chopped and recrowned/threaded.