This is essentially what Altus has done, and they're confident they can still get the shooters to show up even w/o the support of PRS.
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This is essentially what Altus has done, and they're confident they can still get the shooters to show up even w/o the support of PRS.
Backpedalling, Look everyone I am Backpedaling ...
You're missing the point, the reason you don't have a bigger variety and more options is that the PRS is holding people back to protect their slice of the pie.
None of you, "Frank is just mad types", have any reading comprehension at all. We are straight-up telling you, they stop people from doing more. It's Feudal Japan and the Fiefdoms god sakes. They consider this war, and you all as shooters are the pawns in all this.
They actively work to keep everything in place, vs opening the door up to more. Friends have been lost over this shit, why because the Money is good and some people can operate with money coming in better than others. You have those who use that money to build better, and broader and you have others that take it and run, only focusing on how they can make more tomorrow.
Reinvestment, who does it, and who doesn't ...
Sure I can build my own range to make it better, or I can incrementally build my range while helping others build up their program.
That is the NASCAR Secret, you need every track to give the same level of performance as the one before. You don't want one location to be heads and shoulders above the other. Match is great, well balanced, Match B is a meatball match, Match C is too hard, Match D has no infrastructure, Match E has no access to hotels without an hour drive, etc.
You don't grow for the sake of growth you water down the product with subpar performances. You find your top venues, and start to work on those, creating a model for others to follow. You don't line your pockets at the expense of everyone else in your series. You are collecting money based on their participation, you are collecting money based on the number of shooters you. have, you are collecting money based on what your SERIES will do next time, not just one location, but the entire Series.
This is WHY PEOPLE ARE MAD, because some of us, you know the ones who have built shit, that has withstood the test of time, recognize the small things. Recognize where it was when we left it, vs where it stands today.
It's unfortunate because they pretty much killed my competitive drive. I still enjoy the shooting part but want nothing to do with it as me. Hell, even this past weekend, and at other matches, I have changed my name on the score sheet. I don't need anyone commenting on my standings, so I ask the MD to adjust my name a bit, and I love it.
That is why we care because I shot the Guardian last weekend, and tomorrow I will be at Pawnee shooting their monthly. Probably without my name even being on the score sheet, cause I don't need a fucking score.
Matches don't determine my personal worth, in any regard. If I want to test myself against others I can easily see where I stand without paying someone to tell me.
You're missing the point, the reason you don't have a bigger variety and more options is that the PRS is holding people back to protect their slice of the pie.
None of you, "Frank is just mad types", have any reading comprehension at all. We are straight-up telling you, they stop people from doing more. It's Feudal Japan and the Fiefdoms god sakes. They consider this war, and you all as shooters are the pawns in all this.
They actively work to keep everything in place, vs opening the door up to more. Friends have been lost over this shit, why because the Money is good and some people can operate with money coming in better than others. You have those who use that money to build better, and broader and you have others that take it and run, only focusing on how they can make more tomorrow.
Reinvestment, who does it, and who doesn't ...
Sure I can build my own range to make it better, or I can incrementally build my range while helping others build up their program.
That is the NASCAR Secret, you need every track to give the same level of performance as the one before. You don't want one location to be heads and shoulders above the other. Match is great, well balanced, Match B is a meatball match, Match C is too hard, Match D has no infrastructure, Match E has no access to hotels without an hour drive, etc.
You don't grow for the sake of growth you water down the product with subpar performances. You find your top venues, and start to work on those, creating a model for others to follow. You don't line your pockets at the expense of everyone else in your series. You are collecting money based on their participation, you are collecting money based on the number of shooters you. have, you are collecting money based on what your SERIES will do next time, not just one location, but the entire Series.
This is WHY PEOPLE ARE MAD, because some of us, you know the ones who have built shit, that has withstood the test of time, recognize the small things. Recognize where it was when we left it, vs where it stands today.
It's unfortunate because they pretty much killed my competitive drive. I still enjoy the shooting part but want nothing to do with it as me. Hell, even this past weekend, and at other matches, I have changed my name on the score sheet. I don't need anyone commenting on my standings, so I ask the MD to adjust my name a bit, and I love it.
That is why we care because I shot the Guardian last weekend, and tomorrow I will be at Pawnee shooting their monthly. Probably without my name even being on the score sheet, cause I don't need a fucking score.
Matches don't determine my personal worth, in any regard. If I want to test myself against others I can easily see where I stand without paying someone to tell me.
I don't think every match should have the same exact environmental conditions that are perfectly groomed like K&M or Altus. Each match should bring it's own unique challenges, whether its in a remote location, heavy on wind, sweltering heat, etc. That's part of the challenge.
If we're using an analogy of another sport, the NFL doesn't enforce uniformity of playing conditions at all. Green Bay has an exposed stadium subject to horrible weather, whereas the LA Rams and Cardinals get to play home games in perfect conditions inside a stadium. Other teams have to play in crap stadiums with terrible amenities, while other teams get better practice fields, better stadiums, and more support. However, at the end of the day the winner of the Super Bowl has demonstrated the best ability to win across every condition and team they play.
There will always be variability in environments, and it's unrealistic to think that every venue will see an equal level of support. Poorly attended matches (whether due to environment, target size, local hotels, match organization, etc.) will, and should, fall away.
If we're using an analogy of another sport, the NFL doesn't enforce uniformity of playing conditions at all. Green Bay has an exposed stadium subject to horrible weather, whereas the LA Rams and Cardinals get to play home games in perfect conditions inside a stadium. Other teams have to play in crap stadiums with terrible amenities, while other teams get better practice fields, better stadiums, and more support. However, at the end of the day the winner of the Super Bowl has demonstrated the best ability to win across every condition and team they play.
There will always be variability in environments, and it's unrealistic to think that every venue will see an equal level of support. Poorly attended matches (whether due to environment, target size, local hotels, match organization, etc.) will, and should, fall away.
This is totally unfair. Sometimes it is “three steps and put your bag on a gate. Or 3 steps and put your bag on a piece of chain.”
You have absolutely NO READING COMPREHENSION at all,
I am embarrassed to even answer you, more so now.
The Weather is not a condition, the Stadium is ... the venue is, the COF is, you are really thick.
Wow, I am stupider for having read that the NFL doesn't control the weather ... or the wind. Genius
This is the same argument as saying that the NFL should seek as little variation as possible (which they don't). And the NFL can absolutely select the weather and playing conditions, most evidently in the Super Bowl by never hosting it in a cold weather outdoor stadium, which would favor certain teams.
Take your ignorant ass to the NFL pages...
Don't you think when you say, "WHY PEOPLE ARE MAD", you are probably overreacting a bit? I've been to 15-20 NRL/PRS matches, both at the local and national level over the past 3 years, met dozens and dozens of great people and fantastic shooters, and learned more about shooting than I could have ever imagined. Not a single one of them have had a bad thing to say about NRL/PRS, or how they are run. "PEOPLE" aren't mad at all. If anything, the commoner like myself is very pleased. Sure, maybe at the top there are issues that need to be resolved that 99% aren't privileged to or maybe we simply don't care about, but I still hope that can happen sooner than later.
Curious, what exactly are referring to when you say it has withstood the test of time? And why did you leave it if you cared this deeply about the sport? Killing your competitive drive?
Ya i definately see your point with this, i just wanna shoot the events and enjoy myself.
The only problems I have with PRS are that you have to start early in the morning (I just want one effing hobby where I don't have to get up early) and when I realize how much money I've spent just to "be there". Other than that, it's fine. I suppose folks who aren't natural extroverts or "know someone" might find it all a bit intimidating because if you aren't either sometimes it's hard to engage in the social aspect because of how rushed the whole event seems to be to fit it into a single day. Maybe that's another complaint -- seems a little rushed. Not unsafe rushed, just... you go, now you go, now you go, now you go... bam bam bam. Never really much time to just... chill (except at a brief lunch) -- speaking of single days.
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Get some blokes together, and do your own competition on private land.
Fuck em.
Make your own fun.
Fuck em.
Make your own fun.
Yikes.
I am everything the new shooter is and bring, cart and all.
Ya'll aren't as friendly as you think you are.
I am everything the new shooter is and bring, cart and all.
Ya'll aren't as friendly as you think you are.
I am the epitome of almost everything in this thread.
- New to shooting, at all.
- New to P.R.S.
- New to S.H.
And threads like these want me to go find my "Happy Place".
But, I like it, I am learning, and I spend money.
I can't say that many people have helped me at matches, or at ranges, it's all either loners practicing or teams helping each other.
And, I drive, alot.
I am the guy shooting 28%, getting away from laying the "0" 's. A zero never wanted me to find my "happy spot". But it's no fun either.
Being in a squad where there are some of the Top Ten PRS shooters in the country and the number Two (2) this year in PRS and they run the stage is humbling.
Yep, it's me with that 6.5 RPR, that moved to a 6.5 Custom, that is moving to a 6mm custom.
And it's me that pays $20 a month here, to buy stuff, ALOT of stuff. From individuals, and businesses.
Do I want a three day hike? Nope.
PRS works for me, each of the venues for the matches is different, with pluses and minus's, it's all part of the experience.
I come from the boating world, and got tired of it, because of all the "new blood", here I am in the shooting world with a bunch of people who don't like where there "sport" is going.
PRS is like threads or forums, don't like it, don't go.
Right now, for me, it serves it's purpose.
And, I will see what Altus does differenlty now that there are not playing by PRS rules.
But man, go shoot, be happy, life is short.
- New to shooting, at all.
- New to P.R.S.
- New to S.H.
And threads like these want me to go find my "Happy Place".
But, I like it, I am learning, and I spend money.
I can't say that many people have helped me at matches, or at ranges, it's all either loners practicing or teams helping each other.
And, I drive, alot.
I am the guy shooting 28%, getting away from laying the "0" 's. A zero never wanted me to find my "happy spot". But it's no fun either.
Being in a squad where there are some of the Top Ten PRS shooters in the country and the number Two (2) this year in PRS and they run the stage is humbling.
Yep, it's me with that 6.5 RPR, that moved to a 6.5 Custom, that is moving to a 6mm custom.
And it's me that pays $20 a month here, to buy stuff, ALOT of stuff. From individuals, and businesses.
Do I want a three day hike? Nope.
PRS works for me, each of the venues for the matches is different, with pluses and minus's, it's all part of the experience.
I come from the boating world, and got tired of it, because of all the "new blood", here I am in the shooting world with a bunch of people who don't like where there "sport" is going.
PRS is like threads or forums, don't like it, don't go.
Right now, for me, it serves it's purpose.
And, I will see what Altus does differenlty now that there are not playing by PRS rules.
But man, go shoot, be happy, life is short.
Man I'm glad I'm Aussie. None of this weirdness, well that I'm aware of.
Can't we all shut up and shoot ?
@308pirate the types are still on the car. Bonus points for getting brake discs.
Can't we all shut up and shoot ?
@308pirate the types are still on the car. Bonus points for getting brake discs.
Like I said, I am from the boating world, there is an Aussie on a Forum I run, he laughs at the boaters in the US.
They are no different than shooters, neither is a major boating Forum similar to SH.
Stay off the internet and just go shoot. Everyone has ideas about how others should run their organization but ideas are easy. Execution is everything. Variety is the spice of life and seeing Gucci kit at matches is all that matters to me.
I remember hearing a podcast where someone was shooting down the idea of a,b,c class and I knew he was out of touch. Just let organizations compete and best ones win, that’s what Capitalism is all about.
I remember hearing a podcast where someone was shooting down the idea of a,b,c class and I knew he was out of touch. Just let organizations compete and best ones win, that’s what Capitalism is all about.
Not sure where you are shooting but I know people I shoot with and myself help new shooters all we can.
"PRS is like threads or forums, don't like it, don't go." and you realize PRS is not the sport right? They are a governing body. You can totally ignore the PRS and still shoot the matches. You can not like PRS but still shoot the sport as they are not the same.
Lastly you can buy from the forums for free. Frank might not like me telling you this but it's true. LOL We do appreciate the support though. Thanks.
I decided to show up, compete for that match-no matter the length, push to be the in the top 15-20% OVERALL BY SCORE, laugh with new people, be an ass to others, then go home and hope i don't drop dead before the next match. I'll pay for the match, sleep out of my truck, eat can food and crackers, and just enjoy my time.
I run a .308 right now and cant tell you how many people, besides a handful, told me i wasn't going to be competitive with it. Like, "wow thanks I'm so glad you know my enemy and that he/she/it will undoubtedly crush me. Guess we can skip to the selling off rifle, who wants it for $3200???"
My personal mental issues hold me back more than anything, and if i do actually leave the house for a match I do my best to keep a "Happy go lucky" face and demeanor. You know when I'm having fun when I start talking shit or saying some random "WTF was that" statement, but that hasn't happened in awhile because eventually I go to far without realizing it and then go from"good time" to "I just need to lay low and get home"
I want to compete, sometimes I think I need to compete. Not to be the best but to know that if needed I can survive and be in the top 15-20% that will survive. That's why I am going to different venues and formats this next year to broaden my experiences. PRS 1 and 2-day matches, Steel Safari, if I can find a willing teammate the Vortex Team sniper Challenge, other team challenges, 2023 Mammoth. I wish there where more individual matches similar to Sniper challenge and mammoth but whatever.
And before I get the "well why don't you make an individual field-craft event?" I can and have assisted in running different types of events, shooting and non-shooting, and do my best to keep things rolling smoothly. That said I do not deal with the backroom politics or event building, I just cant without trying to plan for every single thing that can go wrong. SO if you have an event and all you need is a body to help out and keep things rolling, I can do that. Other than that I'm content with going to someone else's idea of a competitively fun match no matter the format.
I run a .308 right now and cant tell you how many people, besides a handful, told me i wasn't going to be competitive with it. Like, "wow thanks I'm so glad you know my enemy and that he/she/it will undoubtedly crush me. Guess we can skip to the selling off rifle, who wants it for $3200???"
My personal mental issues hold me back more than anything, and if i do actually leave the house for a match I do my best to keep a "Happy go lucky" face and demeanor. You know when I'm having fun when I start talking shit or saying some random "WTF was that" statement, but that hasn't happened in awhile because eventually I go to far without realizing it and then go from"good time" to "I just need to lay low and get home"
I want to compete, sometimes I think I need to compete. Not to be the best but to know that if needed I can survive and be in the top 15-20% that will survive. That's why I am going to different venues and formats this next year to broaden my experiences. PRS 1 and 2-day matches, Steel Safari, if I can find a willing teammate the Vortex Team sniper Challenge, other team challenges, 2023 Mammoth. I wish there where more individual matches similar to Sniper challenge and mammoth but whatever.
And before I get the "well why don't you make an individual field-craft event?" I can and have assisted in running different types of events, shooting and non-shooting, and do my best to keep things rolling smoothly. That said I do not deal with the backroom politics or event building, I just cant without trying to plan for every single thing that can go wrong. SO if you have an event and all you need is a body to help out and keep things rolling, I can do that. Other than that I'm content with going to someone else's idea of a competitively fun match no matter the format.
Shot a match today,
8 Stages, I got to refresh myself with the current COF as they plan on changing it for 2022 so I wanted to see what was available for space and the target package. They like to sample people in the area to develop the COF, so I wanted to be helpful.
Didn't matter, identified some weaknesses, saw where my gear was messed up, and then got to look at our wind during a match again, as it's been a while since I shot in CO like this, and we have wind.
It was challenging, little plates, most not even very far away but you had to be perfect. We shoot from 200 to 1400 on the clock, which is always a good thing to test yourself against other people's rules.
Comps are the cheapest training one could invest in, the issue is recognizing what you are attending. Like the 308 guys, if you are there to test yourself, develop your own skills and methods, perfect - if you are there to light the world on fire, well you'll work harder but nothing says you can't top 10 it. Fear the man with one gun he may know how to use it.
We encourage shooters and students to compete but educate yourself first on what is actually going on. I have seen many students from the past year at a few of the comps... so the idea we discourage this is completely false, we are just realistic about it.
8 Stages, I got to refresh myself with the current COF as they plan on changing it for 2022 so I wanted to see what was available for space and the target package. They like to sample people in the area to develop the COF, so I wanted to be helpful.
Didn't matter, identified some weaknesses, saw where my gear was messed up, and then got to look at our wind during a match again, as it's been a while since I shot in CO like this, and we have wind.
It was challenging, little plates, most not even very far away but you had to be perfect. We shoot from 200 to 1400 on the clock, which is always a good thing to test yourself against other people's rules.
Comps are the cheapest training one could invest in, the issue is recognizing what you are attending. Like the 308 guys, if you are there to test yourself, develop your own skills and methods, perfect - if you are there to light the world on fire, well you'll work harder but nothing says you can't top 10 it. Fear the man with one gun he may know how to use it.
We encourage shooters and students to compete but educate yourself first on what is actually going on. I have seen many students from the past year at a few of the comps... so the idea we discourage this is completely false, we are just realistic about it.
And a tall ass tank trap. Oh wait..... 
yea but he's running that tall ass turret scopeThat sure as hell don't look like no AI boss!
Did you at least take 4 steps before putting the bag down?
What were the temps there today? Yall look cold. 73 down here today.
Arrived at 7 degrees, high of 30, dropped back down to 21 when the clouds rolled in
Shooting off popsicle sticks never looked so good. Ha ha. Just kidding. Thanks for all you do.
Umm,. We have banned guys and girls for less. Yes we all get tied, yes the gun is clear and has a ECI / flag. Don't let concentration lapse.
The gun is 100% safe, and zero chance of ever firing in its current state.
We as a community get it and can laugh. Unfortunately there's uneducated dimwit-karens who feel like their opinion is valid. It's not.
Just be mindful, and if you see someone doing something similar, DONT go full dimwit-karen on them. "Hey dude, you OK ? Need a hand ? Cool, just check your muzzle control next time" and walk away.
Maybe he nuked a stage and in contemplating how life choices. Help him thru it.
Edit: maybe if he has a suppressor on it, it would be too tall or too hot to do that.
maybe we need suppressors at comps in Australia.
The gun is 100% safe, and zero chance of ever firing in its current state.
We as a community get it and can laugh. Unfortunately there's uneducated dimwit-karens who feel like their opinion is valid. It's not.
Just be mindful, and if you see someone doing something similar, DONT go full dimwit-karen on them. "Hey dude, you OK ? Need a hand ? Cool, just check your muzzle control next time" and walk away.
Maybe he nuked a stage and in contemplating how life choices. Help him thru it.
Edit: maybe if he has a suppressor on it, it would be too tall or too hot to do that.
maybe we need suppressors at comps in Australia.
Are you retarded? Do you not know shit about firearms?
The image above had the opportunity to be an educational moment. He could have been disciplined within the rules. He could have owned it and used it to educate new and seasoned shooters and even come out looking good.
But that's not the route it went. Pics disappeared. ARS made a meme and then was threatened with legal action and now it's gone.
Edit: sounds like he was disciplined within what the rules are. Everything else has been typical internet BS.
But that's not the route it went. Pics disappeared. ARS made a meme and then was threatened with legal action and now it's gone.
Edit: sounds like he was disciplined within what the rules are. Everything else has been typical internet BS.
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Treat every weapon as if it were loaded
Never point at anything you do not intend to shoot
Keep your finger straight and off the trigger until you're ready to shoot
Keep in mind your target and what's beyond it
Never point at anything you do not intend to shoot
Keep your finger straight and off the trigger until you're ready to shoot
Keep in mind your target and what's beyond it
Any legitimate match, that’s an automatic match DQ. People get DQ’d for much less in USPSA. There’s a reason for that. Fuck off with stage DQs. Safety violations should hurt, not some bullshit slap on the wrist.
Lmao imagine defending the lack of firearm safety "iTz gOt uH cHaMbeR fLaG, duRrRrrrr"
I don't care if you bomb a stage or not or the rifle is clear and no way of firing. It's a fuckin rifle. Not a leaning post for your dome.
Complacency kills.
I don't care if you bomb a stage or not or the rifle is clear and no way of firing. It's a fuckin rifle. Not a leaning post for your dome.
Complacency kills.
You can also be labelled a range-officer-karen. Well done.
He got tired of carrying his 26lb 6mm around.
(My attempt at humor in all this and a nod to one of Frank's jabs at PRS)
(My attempt at humor in all this and a nod to one of Frank's jabs at PRS)
No one's really agreeing with you, you might be the karen...
Ugh. Why do people "require" justification on things, and try to assert their dominance over others.
The very first sentence I very clearly stated we have kicked people out of matches for less. In the same first paragraph I stated to never let concentration lapse. Which should be read as "safety first, safety always".
I have done club MD, and been involved with multiple other ranges / clubs which have had incidents, be it minor or major, new or veteran shooters. Usually they are handled very well, discreetly, and without much requirement for a "song and dance". At no point did I justify, endorse, or condone safety breaches.
It never should have happened, I agree with that part. It's not my place to say if the shooter should have been disciplined or not. I wasn't there, so my opinion is not required.
I did however point out that as bad as it could have been, it was on the safer side of being a horrible incident (Flag in, no mag), which still doesn't excuse a safety breach... Which I pointed out in the first damn sentence.
The very first sentence I very clearly stated we have kicked people out of matches for less. In the same first paragraph I stated to never let concentration lapse. Which should be read as "safety first, safety always".
I have done club MD, and been involved with multiple other ranges / clubs which have had incidents, be it minor or major, new or veteran shooters. Usually they are handled very well, discreetly, and without much requirement for a "song and dance". At no point did I justify, endorse, or condone safety breaches.
It never should have happened, I agree with that part. It's not my place to say if the shooter should have been disciplined or not. I wasn't there, so my opinion is not required.
I did however point out that as bad as it could have been, it was on the safer side of being a horrible incident (Flag in, no mag), which still doesn't excuse a safety breach... Which I pointed out in the first damn sentence.
Your entire first post reads something to the extent of "Safety is really important, BUT he had a chamber flag in so it wasn't that bad." To which everyone is pointing out that complacency is bad in all forms. Sure it could have been worse, but the whole idea is to take it seriously enough to correct it before it gets worse.
This long drawn out message is exactly what Karen’s do. It’s ok, just recognize your traits and become something better next time.
We have just as much drama and all the same problems.
Cool story bro.
Perhaps. Not really at our local range. Maybe it's just a sictoria issue. Whos to know.
This match stage is called “Last Japanese officer in the cave and there are Marines with flamethrowers outside.” Sort of a throwback tribute to the early days of the sport….
Sirhr
Well, as I learn, and buy new stuff, I have to sell the "old" stuff. Wanna play, gotta pay.
But, I can tell you, I have been at this just over a year, and still trying to find the Niche'.
People are quick to point out what I do wrong, not so much how to do it correctly.
Annnd, there is no one swapping winds calls with me, yet. Teams members do it amongst themselves.
But hey, their sand pit and their rules.
Not like I am going to displace any one's spot.
It's all good.
And it can be said that any sort of sense you could've had, dripped down your mommas leg when you were conceived but here we are
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