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Krieger_Tactics

Rip Van WInkle
Full Member
Minuteman
My call sign is Krieger. I am a former Special Forces Soldier (7th Special Forces Group, Ft. Bragg, NC), former security contractor, and current Unconventional Asset Recovery Agent.

I have been fortunate enough to have attended multiple long range precision marksmanship courses and to have deployed numerous times as both a military sniper and as a Designated Defensive Marksman.

This past week I had the opportunity to work with two individuals who had rifles long range precision rifles that they wanted to zero.

Before we went to the range we discussed some of the concepts and aspects that affect long range precision marksmanship.

Some of those concepts and aspects are:

Range, Wind speed, Wind direction, Barometric pressure, Humidity, Temperature, Altitude, Shooter to target altitude deviation, Location of the sun, Bullet weight and construction, Measurement of MILs and MOA, Converting MIL to MOA (and vice versa), Affects and importance of cold barrel registration, Affects and importance of clean cold barrel registration, the zeroing process, and slipping of rings, etc.

We then went to the range.


7-YARD LINE
My zeroing method may be a little unconventional when compared to the methods used by some, especially with regards to utilizing a long range precision marksmanship rifle, but I think that it is very efficient and effective. That is why I am sharing it in this forum.

Whether I am shooting a pistol, AR style rifle, or even a "long-gun" as some in the tactical world refer to long range precision rifles, I have the exact same first few rounds process.

No matter what weapon system I'm utilizing I start at the 7 yard line and it is from this distance that I fire the first round.

I utilize this approach due to my personal experience and the experience of others that if the deviation of your sighting system is great enough, and the range at which you fire your first few rounds is far enough...

You will not hit the target, nor even the backer at all, and you will not have an initial reference impact from which you are able to make adjustments.

Some may say that’s not possible. It is. It's happened in my presence. In fact this is exactly what had occurred with the first of the two shooters some months ago. He purchased a new rifle, put a scope on it, went to the range and fired it at 100 yards and completely missed the target and backer. Neither he, nor those he was with were ever able to see his hits on the target because he completely missed. When he explained what he had experienced to me I had a very good idea what happened. I explained it to him. I don't think he didn’t quite believe me.

From the 7-yard line, I verified that the scope was placed on the rifle appropriately, and from a kneeling position at I fired one single shot. From 7 yards the shot was extremely low and far to the right. At 100 yards it would have been far enough off of center that it would not have impacted the target backer. We would not therefore, have been able to know from what point to begin making corrections. The shooter was able to see that if this same rifle had been fired from the 100-yard line that the likelihood of missing the target backer completely was very high.

I made a few elevation and windage adjustments, fired and then hit center mass.

Now that the shooter could see that the rifle did have the capability to hit center mass (albeit at 7 yards) he had a new-found confidence in his rifle and scope. I passed the rifle off to the shooter, who then fired it from supported prone and hit off center (high and to the left). We then made adjustments to get him on center and then moved to the 50 yard line, where we repeated the process and then the 100 yard line. At the 100 yard line the shooter was able to group less than 1 MOA and just slightly left of center. This left deviation is attributable to a certain few (correctable) aspects. I’ll address those later.


TAKE AWAY
For now, I’ll share this take-away from my initial shooting (zeroing) process. You can always start the zeroing process at 25, 50 or even the 100-yard line. You will most likely do fine. I would just note that I’ve seen the best of shooters miss during the zeroing process at each of those yard lines. I always start at 7 yards. I’ve never missed an entire backer at the 7 yard line and I always know exactly and immediately where I’ve hit. This process saves me (and those who are with me) both time and rounds utilized.

UPCOMING POSTS
Krieger_tactics: Long Range Marksmanship - Part 2
Krieger_tactics: Long Range Marksmanship - Part 3


-Krieger

Pictured below: Sniper Data Book
 

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What hemisphere are you operating in? The low right hit could have been coriolis effect. With pistol rounds being low velocity it doesn’t effect them much, but those high power rifle rounds are turning at such high rpm that the coriolis effect really grabs them that close out of the barrel.

What do you guys think? @TheGerman @Huskydriver @M8541Reaper @1J04 did you guys ever have low right impacts at 7 yards in your operating hemispheres?

Really looking forward to part 2 and 3 of your long range marksmanship tips and tricks, hopefully we all get to see it.
 
I'll tell you a secret in which you can zero a rifle in ~3-4 shots if you don't fuck it up.

Pull the bolt, look down the barrel and line the rifle up so the target at the 100 yard line is centered in the bore. While keeping rifle steady and on target, adjust scope so that reticle is centered on target.

This will get you on paper first shot. Adjust per your reticle on the next ~1-3 shots to get the rifle zeroed.

So simple, that a brand new shooter with a brand new rifle got zeroed in 4 shots a couple of weeks ago. No special ops training required.
 
What hemisphere are you operating in? The low right hit could have been coriolis effect. With pistol rounds being low velocity it doesn’t effect them much, but those high power rifle rounds are turning at such high rpm that the coriolis effect really grabs them that close out of the barrel.

What do you guys think? @TheGerman @Huskydriver @M8541Reaper @1J04 did you guys ever have low right impacts at 7 yards in your operating hemispheres?

Really looking forward to part 2 and 3 of your long range marksmanship tips and tricks, hopefully we all get to see it.
If you have to ask, you aren’t cleared to know.
 
Always amazed when random dudes come on here and post some crazy new techniques that nowbody really asked for.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Basher
Aside from the content of posts like this, there’s always a specific “tone” when guys like OP pop up and provide unsolicited, possibly still classified, and absolutely groundbreaking shooting techniques which make every other proven method instantly obsolete… 🤣
C7102383-32B1-401A-A59C-6D7298696B7B.jpeg
 
7 yard zero! Is this a trex video off YouTube? Wtf

Hello gixxer822,

Thank you for taking the time to reply to this thread. I value everyone's opion and thought process.

To answer your question, No. This isn't from YouTube. It's from years of experience working with individuals whose rifles and scope adjustments were so far off that if they had started at 100 yards they wouldn't have hit paper and would not have been able to register their impact and thus would not have been able to have a point from which to make corrections.

While you can start at 25 yards and make corrections, I have found that if I start at 7 yards I can see the impacts with the naked eye and I do not have to spend time walking the 25 yards to see where I hit. I can easily make my adjustments rapidly and refire. This takes a fraction of the time as those who start at 25 yards tak.

While I am sure that there are individuals who don't use this technique, it could prove valid for someone who is or has had difficulty zeroing their weapon.

Again, thank you for providing me with the opportunity to further explain. I am grateful.

Respectfully,

Krieger
 
Will this work for my red Ryder bb gun?

Hello Jabot,

I would like to thank you for your question and for providing me with an opportunity to address your query.

To note, I have a high powered bb gun. Technically it's a rifle as the barrel has rifling. It uses a spring propelling system and fires about 750 fps. I also have a scope on this weapon. When I initially zero'd it, I started at 7 yards, so I believe that yes, this TTP should work for you as well.

Again, thank you for your reply.

Respectfully,

Krieger
 
Always amazed when random dudes come on here and post some crazy new techniques that nowbody really asked for.

Hello tate1976,

I appreciate your point. As I value your wisdom, and as I would like to be a contributing part of this forum, how would you best suggest that I post information that I have found to be valuable?

Thank you,

Respectfully,

Krieger
 
Wouldn’t bore sighting your rifle be better than shooting rounds at 7 yards?

What do the 2 pictures you posted have to do with 7 yard sight in?

Do you work in concrete?

Hello texastonk,

Thank you for your question. Bore sighting would be infinitely better that shooting rounds at 7 yards. However, there are times that bore sighting isn't possible. When it is not, I have found that shooting at 7 yards, provides me with the ability to see the impact of my rounds immediately and then allows me to make corrections immediately.

As I noted in another response, I could shoot at the standard 25 yards... However, from 25 yards I cannot immediately see the impacts on paper and then have to walk the 25 yards, observe the impacts and then walk back 25 yards and make corrections and refire. This takes time.

At 7 yards I shoot, observe the impact, make an immediate correction and refire. This process takes less than 20 seconds. Once I'm satisfied with my hits at 7 yards, THEN I move back to a farther distance.

Thank you for your noted point. I hope that I addressed it.

And before I forget, no I do not work in concrete.

Respectfully,

Krieger

P.S.,

The pictures are add ins for interest.
 
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I have found that if I start at 7 yards I can see the impacts with the naked eye and I do not have to spend time walking the 25 yards to see where I hit. I can easily make my adjustments rapidly and refire. This takes a fraction of the time as those who start at 25 yards tak.
If you can't see .17 cal holes in the target at 50 yards you *might* want to try something better than a UTG scope.
 
7 yards, who knew? I've always found that about 1 minute spent pulling the bolt and bore sighting has been sufficient to get me on paper at 100.

Hello ForgeVally,

I agree that most times your TTP is more than sufficient. There are times that boresighting is not an option. When it is not an option, I make it simple. I fire at 7 yards. From 7 yards I can immediately see the impact of my round with the naked eye. This is an advantage over shooting from 25 yards. Since I can see the impact of my round immediately, I do not lose time looking for the impact through glass etc. Since I can see the impact, I can make immediate corrections and refire.

Thank you for your note, in which I agree that you are correct, however, it's not always an option.

My take away here would be to use the TTP that's most applicable.

Thank you for providing your thought process and thus providing me with the opportunity to clarify.

Respectfully,

Krieger
 
Hello Basher,

I appreciate your note. I am curious as to the tone that you're referencing. I would like to avoid being one with a tone. I am simply providing a TTP that has worked for me and has worked for others. It might not work for you or for some, and I understand that. Not every TTP works for every person.

I would also like to thank you for taking the time to respond. Even though we may not agree on the validity of the TTP, I would like you to know that I understand how you feel. Many of my TTPs are unconventional to say the least... but they work for me and for those with whom I have to do.

I hope that in my responses that I have shown that the TTP is substantiated, at least when bore sighting (especially) is not an option.

Respectfully,

Krieger
 
<iframe src="https://giphy.com/embed/hVTouq08miyVo1a21m" width="480" height="454" frameBorder="0" class="giphy-embed" allowFullScreen></iframe><p><a href="">via GIPHY</a></p>

I'm listening. Tell me more.



Hello Maxduty,

I would like to thank you for your meme. It is pretty funny. I had intended to post the next two parts immediately, however, as you can see my TTP is drawing a lot of attention and a lot of scrutiny... Which I can certainly understand. I like to try to address all of the replies and to provide responses to those who write in, whether they are being salacious or whether they are being legitimate in their responses and comments. As such, I may continue to respond to queries as opposed to posting parts 2 and 3.

However, I would like to assure you that I will post parts 2 and 3 soon.

I would invite you and all of those who have replied to follow me if this forum has provides this option.

If not, I'm sure you know that if you type Krieger_Tactics in the search bar my posts will populate.

Thank you again for your meme. It provided me with the ability to interact with you, for which I am grateful,

Respectfully,

Krieger
 
My call sign is Krieger. I am a former Special Forces Soldier (7th Special Forces Group, Ft. Bragg, NC), former security contractor (Baghdad, Iraq), and current Unconventional Asset Recovery Agent.

I have been fortunate enough to have attended multiple long range precision marksmanship courses and to have deployed numerous times as both a military sniper and as a Designated Defensive Marksman.

This past week I had the opportunity to work with two individuals who had rifles long range precision rifles that they wanted to zero.

Before we went to the range we discussed some of the concepts and aspects that affect long range precision marksmanship.

Some of those concepts and aspects are:

Range, Wind speed, Wind direction, Barometric pressure, Humidity, Temperature, Altitude, Shooter to target altitude deviation, Location of the sun, Bullet weight and construction, Measurement of MILs and MOA, Converting MIL to MOA (and vice versa), Affects and importance of cold barrel registration, Affects and importance of clean cold barrel registration, the zeroing process, and slipping of rings, etc.

We then went to the range.


7-YARD LINE
My zeroing method may be a little unconventional when compared to the methods used by some, especially with regards to utilizing a long range precision marksmanship rifle, but I think that it is very efficient and effective. That is why I am sharing it in this forum.

Whether I am shooting a pistol, AR style rifle, or even a "long-gun" as some in the tactical world refer to long range precision rifles, I have the exact same first few rounds process.

No matter what weapon system I'm utilizing I start at the 7 yard line and it is from this distance that I fire the first round.

I utilize this approach due to my personal experience and the experience of others that if the deviation of your sighting system is great enough, and the range at which you fire your first few rounds is far enough...

You will not hit the target, nor even the backer at all, and you will not have an initial reference impact from which you are able to make adjustments.

Some may say that’s not possible. It is. It's happened in my presence. In fact this is exactly what had occurred with the first of the two shooters some months ago. He purchased a new rifle, put a scope on it, went to the range and fired it at 100 yards and completely missed the target and backer. Neither he, nor those he was with were ever able to see his hits on the target because he completely missed. When he explained what he had experienced to me I had a very good idea what happened. I explained it to him. I don't think he didn’t quite believe me.

From the 7-yard line, I verified that the scope was placed on the rifle appropriately, and from a kneeling position at I fired one single shot. From 7 yards the shot was extremely low and far to the right. At 100 yards it would have been far enough off of center that it would not have impacted the target backer. We would not therefore, have been able to know from what point to begin making corrections. The shooter was able to see that if this same rifle had been fired from the 100-yard line that the likelihood of missing the target backer completely was very high.

I made a few elevation and windage adjustments, fired and then hit center mass.

Now that the shooter could see that the rifle did have the capability to hit center mass (albeit at 7 yards) he had a new-found confidence in his rifle and scope. I passed the rifle off to the shooter, who then fired it from supported prone and hit off center (high and to the left). We then made adjustments to get him on center and then moved to the 50 yard line, where we repeated the process and then the 100 yard line. At the 100 yard line the shooter was able to group less than 1 MOA and just slightly left of center. This left deviation is attributable to a certain few (correctable) aspects. I’ll address those later.


TAKE AWAY
For now, I’ll share this take-away from my initial shooting (zeroing) process. You can always start the zeroing process at 25, 50 or even the 100-yard line. You will most likely do fine. I would just note that I’ve seen the best of shooters miss during the zeroing process at each of those yard lines. I always start at 7 yards. I’ve never missed an entire backer at the 7 yard line and I always know exactly and immediately where I’ve hit. This process saves me (and those who are with me) both time and rounds utilized.

UPCOMING POSTS
Krieger_tactics: Long Range Marksmanship - Part 2
Krieger_tactics: Long Range Marksmanship - Part 3


-Krieger

Pictured below: Sniper Data Book
Congratulations, you are now a social media meme.
 
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7 yards, who knew? I've always found that about 1 minute spent pulling the bolt and bore sighting has been sufficient to get me on paper at 100.
Yep, even as a newbie with his first scoped rifle, I was able to bore sight at 50 yards, was on paper at 100, and zero'd from there.

I'm not sure how this gentleman could overlook such a standard and easy procedure if his experience is as he says.
 
My call sign is Krieger. I am a former Special Forces Soldier (7th Special Forces Group, Ft. Bragg, NC), former security contractor (Baghdad, Iraq), and current Unconventional Asset Recovery Agent.

I have been fortunate enough to have attended multiple long range precision marksmanship courses and to have deployed numerous times as both a military sniper and as a Designated Defensive Marksman.

This past week I had the opportunity to work with two individuals who had rifles long range precision rifles that they wanted to zero.

Before we went to the range we discussed some of the concepts and aspects that affect long range precision marksmanship.

Some of those concepts and aspects are:

Range, Wind speed, Wind direction, Barometric pressure, Humidity, Temperature, Altitude, Shooter to target altitude deviation, Location of the sun, Bullet weight and construction, Measurement of MILs and MOA, Converting MIL to MOA (and vice versa), Affects and importance of cold barrel registration, Affects and importance of clean cold barrel registration, the zeroing process, and slipping of rings, etc.

We then went to the range.


7-YARD LINE
My zeroing method may be a little unconventional when compared to the methods used by some, especially with regards to utilizing a long range precision marksmanship rifle, but I think that it is very efficient and effective. That is why I am sharing it in this forum.

Whether I am shooting a pistol, AR style rifle, or even a "long-gun" as some in the tactical world refer to long range precision rifles, I have the exact same first few rounds process.

No matter what weapon system I'm utilizing I start at the 7 yard line and it is from this distance that I fire the first round.

I utilize this approach due to my personal experience and the experience of others that if the deviation of your sighting system is great enough, and the range at which you fire your first few rounds is far enough...

You will not hit the target, nor even the backer at all, and you will not have an initial reference impact from which you are able to make adjustments.

Some may say that’s not possible. It is. It's happened in my presence. In fact this is exactly what had occurred with the first of the two shooters some months ago. He purchased a new rifle, put a scope on it, went to the range and fired it at 100 yards and completely missed the target and backer. Neither he, nor those he was with were ever able to see his hits on the target because he completely missed. When he explained what he had experienced to me I had a very good idea what happened. I explained it to him. I don't think he didn’t quite believe me.

From the 7-yard line, I verified that the scope was placed on the rifle appropriately, and from a kneeling position at I fired one single shot. From 7 yards the shot was extremely low and far to the right. At 100 yards it would have been far enough off of center that it would not have impacted the target backer. We would not therefore, have been able to know from what point to begin making corrections. The shooter was able to see that if this same rifle had been fired from the 100-yard line that the likelihood of missing the target backer completely was very high.

I made a few elevation and windage adjustments, fired and then hit center mass.

Now that the shooter could see that the rifle did have the capability to hit center mass (albeit at 7 yards) he had a new-found confidence in his rifle and scope. I passed the rifle off to the shooter, who then fired it from supported prone and hit off center (high and to the left). We then made adjustments to get him on center and then moved to the 50 yard line, where we repeated the process and then the 100 yard line. At the 100 yard line the shooter was able to group less than 1 MOA and just slightly left of center. This left deviation is attributable to a certain few (correctable) aspects. I’ll address those later.


TAKE AWAY
For now, I’ll share this take-away from my initial shooting (zeroing) process. You can always start the zeroing process at 25, 50 or even the 100-yard line. You will most likely do fine. I would just note that I’ve seen the best of shooters miss during the zeroing process at each of those yard lines. I always start at 7 yards. I’ve never missed an entire backer at the 7 yard line and I always know exactly and immediately where I’ve hit. This process saves me (and those who are with me) both time and rounds utilized.

UPCOMING POSTS
Krieger_tactics: Long Range Marksmanship - Part 2
Krieger_tactics: Long Range Marksmanship - Part 3


-Krieger

Pictured below: Sniper Data Book
You were a security contractor on Baghdad, Iraq!?

Like, wow. That's my dream job! What company did you work for? What section did you work for?

RSO?
OSCI?
ORA?
DoS?
DoD?
DTRA?
TC?
SOC?
CHS?

Did you normally work in Annex 1 or Annex 2?

Do tell! I'm genuinely curious because that career path is soooooo interesting to me!

You're so operator.
 
Last edited:
You were a security contractor on Baghdad, Iraq!?

Like, wow. That's my dream job! What company did you work for? What section did you work for?

RSO?
OSCI?
ORA?
DoS?
DoD?
DTRA?
TC?
SOC?
CHS?

Did you normally work in Annex 1 or Annex 2?

Do tell! I'm genuinely curious because that career path is soooooo interesting to me!

You're so operator.
Where were you? I was in ODA Loop.