Nothing more to add, just wanted to be the 10,000th post! 
Suppressors Form 4 wait time
This batch approval is what I've been waiting for from the beginning and have complained to my congressman and senator about for a 9 months now.
In an electronic system, there's no way this SHOULDN'T be the case everytime.
Your turn comes in the wait list, your background check comes through and gets applied to all of your pending forms and they get approved.
Hopefully this is the case for everyone going forward
I hope that you are right, but I think it could be more related to the unusually high number of NFA items in the system for this person. Is it setup to flag a certain number of pending items over 8, 10 or 15 and then they are all brought to the attention of a single examiner for batch approval? Perhaps so.
If you go to that subreddit thread, the person approved mentions it could be about an āaudit from the ATF,ā that he seems to indicate could occur from this group of approvals and that he is familiar with some of the agents and āknows them by nameā as he had encounters with them in the past. So, heās approved now for 20 NFA items and from what I read in the thread, it seems he has many other NFA items. Maybe ATF pays a visit to persons approved of a high number of NFA items in a short period of time. The guy mentions he is in Houston.
What is for sure is the whole process is opaque.
Last edited:
It definitely seems like it could be a unique situation (hopefully not) as that guy has $4000 in just stamps, probably tens of thousands more in the items themselves.
if the guy is on their radar, knows agents by name, why would they approve his stuff to go "audit" him.
Hes a private citizen and not an FFL/SOT or he wouldnt be in the form 4 game.
if the ATF wants a piece of him, they would flag his form 4s for a hold or deny outright, then go knock on his door.
approving them all and then go knock on his door makes no sense at all.
Are you aware that if you buy two or more handguns within seven days, that triggers the requirement the FFL licensee must send a copy of the transaction to the ATF and local law enforcement? Perhaps, if someone would buy 10 handguns in seven days they might decide to pay that person a visit as a precaution to get a read on that person.
I donāt think the issue would be that he is on the ATF radar because he has done something wrong, but rather buying 20 NFA items is something unusual and an outlier. If he had done something wrong, he wouldnāt be buying firearms, much less NFA items. ATF may have protocols that when something like this happens they go visit the individual to get a feel for the person.
The only other thing that comes to mind is maybe he does indeed have an FFL/SOT, but these 20 items are obviously for him personally. Maybe the guy is rich and at times he buys a high number of NFA items like this and the ATF decided in the past to pay the guy a visit and audit his FFL/SOT business while there. If an audit happened in the past due to an unusual circumstance such as at present, it would explain why he is inclined to think it might happen again.
I know my local FFL/SOT told me when he had his recent audit from the ATF, the guy flew in from TX as they didnāt have anyone locally. Compare that to Houston that likely has an ATF field office in the area, so if they decide to audit/visit someone like this maybe itās a 20 minute drive for example, and no big deal for them or the person getting the visit because they are in a large city to begin with.
Submitted and In Progress: 03/06/2023
Permit #: 202340665X
This is so frustrating. I did an eForm with a trust, this is my 9th time through the process and I'm thinking 274 days but unsure if braces will introduce a wildcard. I had to renew my LEOSA last week, went to an FBI channeler and had my approved results in the time it took me to drive home. /weakrantoff
Permit #: 202340665X
This is so frustrating. I did an eForm with a trust, this is my 9th time through the process and I'm thinking 274 days but unsure if braces will introduce a wildcard. I had to renew my LEOSA last week, went to an FBI channeler and had my approved results in the time it took me to drive home. /weakrantoff
The guy with the 20 could have bought a machine gun collection. There's a Thompson collector in the Houston area, I believe he buys up NFA estates.
No machine guns. In the link to the nfa subreddit I posted on the previous page I also provided an attachment that shows the guyās post of exactly what was approved. Itās 19 individual suppressors and an integrally suppressed lever gun.
See the attachment again below.
Attachments
Good info - I'm sitting on 2022573xxx so that's hopeful. Bloody crazy it takes so long for an approval, especially if you already have stamps.
i am aware of what triggers notification to the FBI, since i live in a border state. They do not, to my knowledge, have to notify local LEO.
you are confusing what is happening here in the NFA process versus a typical 4473 multi-gun transfer. since i am a CHL holder in Texas, i dont have to go through a NICS check, so if i buy 20 guns at once, the only way the Feds know is if the FFL contacts them, which thanks to Obama and his wingman Holder, is required.
but the NFA paperwork is a background check performed by the FBI at the request of the ATF. They know everything and have all the details on all firearms before they approve him. so why approve and then go "audit" something?
ATF: "This is a high volume of transfers, something seems fishy here. We need to look into this. But first, approve everything he has pending approval!!"
Also, no FFL/SOT would transfer to themselves on a Form 4 instead of to the FFL on a Form 3. Those Form 3s are tax free (unless coming from a form 4) and would stay in that individuals possession even when their FFL expires.
Why would they approve him? Because they have to! There is a misunderstanding here. I am saying someone that legally buys an NFA item can buy as many as they want AND the ATF has the authority to go investigate/speak with anyone they want if they choose to. All I am saying is they may have a threshold that when exceeded initiates a flag. It doesnāt mean that they are going out to hassle the guy. The ATF could call the guy and ask if they could make an appointment and stop by and he could tell them to go pound sand or he could say yes.
They can choose to audit (an FFL/SOT) because audits are part of having the license or because they have a concern, itās that simple. If the guy buys 20 NFA items they may go and talk to him to see if he is doing something suspicious, what the personās state of mind is etc. Certain circumstances can and do trigger reviews. It could be as simple as an ATF agent, seeing this guys 20 approvals and maybe the guy has a 120 NFA items total, the agent goes to his supervisor and that guy says, āLook at this guy, John Smithās history he buys nothing for several years and then he buys a high number, he submitted 14 in 2020, 31 in 2018, itās just this guys pattern, weāve gone out and talked to him before, nothing to be concerned with here.ā Itās about patterns and profiles.
Sure they would if the FFL is going out of business. A person decides they are tired of paying the yearly $1000 SOT tax and decides to retire. They buy all the cans they want personally through the FFL/SOT use them whenever they want, while they wait for the final approvals of the form 4s to come through and close the doors or call the ATF and tell them they are going out of business and get all of those designated personal cans approved instantly.
The reality is neither you or I have enough information of what this guy means by he āmight be subject to an audit.ā The guy has said if anyone has any questions he will answer them. I donāt have a Reddit account or I would ask him what he specifically means by the audit. If you have a Reddit account maybe go and ask him and post back here what he says.
Senidng to local law enforcement is part of the rules here for two or more handgun buys in seven days.
Iāve provided some possible scenarios, but certainly not all of the possible reasons for the audit or exactly what the term means to him.
I just asked him under his post. Will report back with any answers
Fantastic, I will watch here and on Reddit to see what his reply is.
Just for more context. I do not believe he has 50+ NFA items. Seems like he may have cancelled a wedding or something and decided to splurge on himself
Still interested to see if he meant anything by audit or if he just threw that out there
And #3 of 3 showed up today.
Control No: 20225447XX
Submission Date: 06/03/22
Approved Date: 03/07/2023
Days: 277
Control No: 20225447XX
Submission Date: 06/03/22
Approved Date: 03/07/2023
Days: 277
Yea, I read all of that and I donāt know what he is referring to when he says, ālawful American citizenā¦ā and how that concerns the ATF. Just not enough information to know exactly what all this means.
Okay, he replied to your question about what he means by audit. (See attachment).
If you donāt mind ask him these questions:
Does he have an FFL/SOT license?
What does he mean by "are we hassling me again, or did you update my file over there finally to say 'lawful American citizen'? If hasslin, well good luck with that?ā Does he mean the ATF is hassling him because of his ethnicity or what?
From how he replied to you I donāt think he has an FFL/SOT.
Attachments
Hereās something that has never happened a true eform batch approval of 20 cans! This occurred yesterday, March 6th, longest wait in the group is 262 days down to 12 days. It has been verified by the moderator of the subreddit. Very detailed post with no special circumstances. Simply incredibleā¦(See attachment at the bottom of this post).
Why canāt that shit happen to mine! I got 4 in the hopperā¦
Same here, well 2 waiting since very beginning of August as well. I'm guessing mid April to end of April?
I have one from 8/22/22 and Iām not getting my hopes up till late may it looks like
My number is 202271xxxx is yours in that area?
Mine from 8/25 is 2022725xxx
I've been waiting on one item for 172 days. Other than that, nothing to add.
Update, here is the *20 can approval* and his 375 integral suppressed lever gun build
I need some specs on that lever gun buildā¦ Is that a Browning BLR action?
So 20 Can Man has no FFL, heās been visited by ATF before, pre-covid. ATF asks him, āā¦a series of attempted entrapping questions about other concernsā¦ā And He āā¦follows the lawā¦ā
Hmmā¦. this is a mystery. There is more of a backstory here and we still donāt know what it is. Does 20 Can Man, share the same last name and/or is related to someone with suspected or known criminal activity orā¦??
Well maybe you could ask him two final questions, what is the exact build sheet of that integrally suppressed lever gun (I would really like to know, lol) and when the ATF visited pre-covid, did he also have high number of NFA items approved, if so how many? If he did have a similar high number of NFA items approved then that would indicate there is a high number threshold, when approved it flags the person for review and a possible visit and during the visit maybe it is standard protocol to ask some probing questions that would make any reasonable person, uncomfortable.
I hear you FQ, and I get it.Why canāt that shit happen to mine! I got 4 in the hopperā¦
Hereās an example. You decide to go to the grocery store to buy just four apples nothing else. Do you pick up all four at once, pay and walk to your vehicle and get on with your day? OR Do you buy one apple, pay, carry it to your vehicle go back and repeat the same moronic time wasting process three more times?
There is a bright side to this, look at the attachment. Another person was approved yesterday with exactly four cans in the hopper; 243 days is the longest down to the shortest time of 137 days. Also, another post of a guy getting batch approved 11 cans in this same NFA subreddit thread a little further back.
We need more supporting batch approvals though to really have confidence in the data that this is a trend.
Attachments
Tac-Sol X-Ring TSS
Check Cashed 06/10/2022
Approved 03/08/2023 @ 9:12 A.M
271 days
Check Cashed 06/10/2022
Approved 03/08/2023 @ 9:12 A.M
271 days
Yea, I would like to know the exact build sheet of this too. Caliber etc. and what it looks like with the suppressor cover on.
While I do fully understand weāre taking about the lame duck bureaucracy that is our federal government, in all of their āefficient gloryā. I can only hope they decided to start doing something positive for us as well.
The last 10+ times Iāve called to check on cans over the last year or so, Iāve always mentioned a possible batch approval. I hope others have been discussing this with them, as well. The more people mentioning batch approvals when they call, the more likely theyāre going to seriously look into it.
I seriously hope they decided to look into implementing the batch procedure. It would make their jobs much easier and efficient and wait times would drop significantly.
In any bureaucracy, efficiency is contradictory to job securityā¦
Not sure on build sheet for lever gun, Ill DM him. It is chambered in 375 Raptor
1st NFA visit***
My guess? If he is in a border state "Fast and Furious" comes to mind. There is a video on YouTube of a fella that was visited by the AFT because of numerous red flags (Paying cash, multiples, etc.) and they thought they had him dead to rights for trafficking to the cartels. Turns out others at his LGS were and he was buying a shit ton of guns in the same time frame...
I donāt know that I agree with the job security argument.
It seems clear they are hiring more examiners from the NFA subreddit where there is a library of known examiner signatures. If NFA would go fully live on batch approvals, queue times would decrease dramatically, maybe to the point examiners have idle time - I donāt think job security is going to be an issue for these poorly utilized employees.
You know your reasoning makes the most sense: border state, multiples etc. now match that up with the answer 20 Can Man gave:
[He bought] āMultiple of the same type of pistols and riflesā¦.plunked down for some stock sig pistols and entry level rifles. Had Em all come in at once.ā (see post above 10035)
At the very least he should think about getting some new friends since they have no issue using his Gucci stuff and letting him buy more guns for them to use. I hope he isnāt buying the ammo for them to shoot too.
I think NikonNUT has the best reasoning of why this guy got the ATF visit.
No shit. Who buys guns do their friends to shoot? You wanna shoot? Great. Bring your own shit. No shit, no shoot.At the very least he should think about getting some new friends since they have no issue using his Gucci stuff and letting him buy more guns for them to use. I hope he isnāt buying the ammo for them to shoot too.
I think NikonNUT has the best reasoning of why this guy got the ATF visit.
I had three more clear today (from a total of 5 certified the same day), so I've got one more outstanding.
Looks like they haven't adopted Batch processing across the board; otherwise, they would have likely picked up my last one as well.
Note: 2 were cleared by one inspector a minute apart, another was cleared by a different inspector 3 hrs later, and neither of today's inspectors was the same inspector who cleared one of mine from a week ago.
And now for the good stuff:
Submission Date: 06/08/2022
Approved Date: 03/09/2023
Control Number: 20225535XX
Can: Dead Air Sandman L
Wait: 272 Days
Submission Date: 06/08/2022
Approved Date: 03/09/2023
Control Number: 20225535XX
Can: Dead Air Primal
Wait: 272 Days
Submission Date: 06/08/2022
Approved Date: 03/09/2023
Control Number: 20225535XX
Can: Dead Air SMS762-MIL (Sandman S Mil Contract Overrun)
Wait: 272 Days
Still waiting for Ghost to clear, and then I'll be good until I figure out what I want to roll with for my 6cm, and 7prc builds Muhahahaha.
Looks like they haven't adopted Batch processing across the board; otherwise, they would have likely picked up my last one as well.
Note: 2 were cleared by one inspector a minute apart, another was cleared by a different inspector 3 hrs later, and neither of today's inspectors was the same inspector who cleared one of mine from a week ago.
And now for the good stuff:
Submission Date: 06/08/2022
Approved Date: 03/09/2023
Control Number: 20225535XX
Can: Dead Air Sandman L
Wait: 272 Days
Submission Date: 06/08/2022
Approved Date: 03/09/2023
Control Number: 20225535XX
Can: Dead Air Primal
Wait: 272 Days
Submission Date: 06/08/2022
Approved Date: 03/09/2023
Control Number: 20225535XX
Can: Dead Air SMS762-MIL (Sandman S Mil Contract Overrun)
Wait: 272 Days
Still waiting for Ghost to clear, and then I'll be good until I figure out what I want to roll with for my 6cm, and 7prc builds Muhahahaha.
This guy, me, right here... does. Guilty as charged.
Submission Date: 06/16/2022
Approved Date: 03/10/2023
Control Number: 2022573xxx
SubGun
Wait: 267 Days
Approved Date: 03/10/2023
Control Number: 2022573xxx
SubGun
Wait: 267 Days
Well fuck. I'm still waiting on a 6/6.
Called for the first time I thought I was 5/31 but they Rec 6/4. My stuff always takes longer
going on two months waiting for them to fix the form. still not signed WTF
Your dealer didn't sign it? WTF kind of dealer doesn't do the most basic thing on any application?
Thatās some BS and totally unacceptable. Iād be in there tomorrow demanding that they sign it in front of me
Similar threads
Suppressors SilencerCo Omega 300 "Base"
