I was going to buy another urx but the damn things are hard to find, plus the price is getting ridiculous. How are the geissele rails? Specifically the mk8. Would be either the 13.5 or 15 and a 16 or 18" barrel I haven't decided yet.
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Create a channel Learn moreThe URX III was my favorite but it was short lived. I used to have a box full of KAC parts I had amassed over a decade, I should have sat on that stuff a little longer. I am or was a certified KAC fanboy but their stuff just isn't worth the hassle anymore. Geissele parts are typically readily available so I'd go that route.
The cross section is strong, but doesn’t lend itself to comfort.Absolutely love the Mk8, thing is built like a brick shit house.
The cross section is strong, but doesn’t lend itself to comfort.
True, but the 13” I have is super strong and is within a couple ounces of my KMRs / MCMR.The cross section is strong, but doesn’t lend itself to comfort.
This,
KAC is the world champion of coming up with a really good piece of gear, and making no effort on bringing it to market. They've been stinging along those poor bastards over on ARFCOM since 2018 on their stupid lunchbox special and they still don't have a complete rifle.
10-15 years ago, KAC was the hotness, and honestly, IMO were worth it, but fast forward to today, at their current premium, and taken into account their availability, Absolutely not.
There are a lot of really good AR's, with significantly better availability.
You all misunderstand we’re not KAC’s target market.
You’re right, it just means the consumer is deluded. Market seems to reflect that delusion, as noted.That doesn't change anything in regards to how the consumer sees it.
I couldn’t have said it better myself. I sold the large frames a few years back but I still have a few SR-15’s and some cans which I’ll never get rid of. I’d like the new KS-1 but I’m not going to over pay or wait three more years for one either. Great stuff but just no longer worth the hassle especially when many of the other top manufacturers have pretty much stepped up to the same level of quality and innovation combined with actual availability.
You’re right, it just means the consumer is deluded. Market seems to reflect that delusion, as noted.
Case in point, this consumer is deluded into thinking he’s part of the market to which KAC is targeting their products.Just so we are clear; your position is that the consumer in the retail market is delusional because a company offers something for sale in said market and the consumer is upset by no availability and only inflated opportunity to purchase...?
A consumer is not delusional for expecting to be able to purchase something that is offered at retail. The real issue is aggregious out of stocks, poor business planning, and poor brand management by KAC. If you can only support your primary market, then that's what you should do.
Case in point, this consumer is deluded into thinking he’s part of the market to which KAC is targeting their products.
There is no poor business planning. The consumer market is not and has never been KAC’s market.
Just so we are clear; your position is that the consumer in the retail market is delusional because a company offers something for sale in said market and the consumer is upset by no availability and only inflated opportunity to purchase...?
A consumer is not delusional for expecting to be able to purchase something that is offered at retail. The real issue is aggregious out of stocks, poor business planning, and poor brand management by KAC. If you can only support your primary market, then that's what you should do.
No, I don't fault them either. But the fact of the matter is they entered a market they can't support. The two thoughts can coexist.I don't think anybody faults KAC for prioritizing mil orders ahead of commercial orders, but there inability or maybe even desire to adapt to market demand over the last decade.
FN, HK, LMT, Geiselle, and Sig are all "Defense Contractors" that prioritize mil orders that don't seem to have the same issues with keeping their vendor network stocked.
I would skip all that and get the LaRueStealth 2.0 upper receiver and handguard combo for about the same price as Geissele or KAC rails alone. The only thing I’ve felt that is more rigid is the LMT MRP.
You can get 10.5” or 13” rail length ( I would do the 13” with a 13.5” barrel), MLOK now despite what the pics show. It’s probably the biggest sleeper on the market and has been for about 7-8 years. Pros over the other designs are:
* Truly free-floated without anything clamping to a barrel nut
* Rock solid mate-up with more surface-to-surface contact between the upper and HG flanges, using axial torque from 4 fasteners with lots of thread engagement
* Zero chance of rotation
* Excellent upper receiver and handguard top rail alignment
* Very slim width
* Lightweight
* $489
Not case and point at all. It's a market they sell in and cannot support, period. The retail and military / leo markets are two entirely seperate businesses. No retail customer is mistaking themselves to be a military or police department either, so you can drop the "delusional" comments. It is absolutely poor business planning; they are unable to support one of the markets they've entered. There is nothing delusional about the customers in that market being upset about not being able to purchase the product. You can say retail "is not and never has been their market" all you want but it doesn't change the fact that it is an entirely different market from law enforcement, government, and military that they've absolutely chosen to service.
A big thing about Knight’s is that they have always been a Special Operations Forces and military responsive contractor who immediately reacts to time-sensitive demands from those types of customers. As the word spread from the 1980s to early 1990s, they added design, testing, and manufacturing capacity to meet their growing list of customers.
Think early rail attachments, handguards, flashlight mounts, vertical grips, optic mounts for SMGs, Carbines, Sniper Systems, Machineguns, unique Night Vision systems attachment solutions for all of these types of weapons, suppressors, LAM mounts, sling mounts, and anything basically that end-users come to them with asking for KAC to rapidly develop and make.
Because of the ever-changing nature of weapons, night vision, LAMs, flashlights, and ancillary systems, these things go from being the new hotness one day, to obsolete the next year.
Think about everything we went through with the PVS-4, PVS-10, SIMRAD, Thermal Weapon Sights, PVS-14s, and then Clip-Ons just for weapon-mounted NVDs.
Handguards went from repurposed SR-25 carbon fiber tubes with AR-15 upper receiver thread interface parts, to the KAC RIS, RAS, FF RAS, MRE, and URX series. That covers 1993-present.
Then look at PAQ-4C, PEQ-2A, PEQ-15, and subsequent LAMs, all the MP5 rails for customers all over the world, MP5 optic mounts, 870 Master Keys, and a list of things even the most-dedicated clone builders have never seen, and will never see.
Suppressors, complete weapons contracts, ever-changing scope mounts, and new clip-ons require constant feedback and response from KAC to that customer base. These aren’t just US SOF and DoD contracts either, from what I understand. The customer base is quite large and well-funded, with very fast solicitation and fulfillment schedules that are unique to KAC.
While it isn’t realistic to expect them to also be responsive to the civilian market, Trey recently said they really want to expand more in that space, so we’ll see.
Aside from the USSS contract, some foreign M110 orders, and the USMC suppressor contract, I’m mystified as to what KAC has been doing post-GWOT pre-L403A1.I think there is a perception that while they still have defense contracts, what they had the first decade of the GWOT vs what they have now are significantly less, and there is a perception that they were able to support the commercial market better during the Height of the GWOT vs now.
I know they had to move to a much larger facility that requires a vehicle to drive around in just to get from one side of the building to the other, unless you want to take a long, long walk.I think there is a perception that while they still have defense contracts, what they had the first decade of the GWOT vs what they have now are significantly less, and there is a perception that they were able to support the commercial market better during the Height of the GWOT vs now.
See my post above. I don’t have any interest in this other than analyzing this industry for so long. The only KAC products I have are a complete RIS with BII in a bin somewhere.Aside from the USSS contract, some foreign M110 orders, and the USMC suppressor contract, I’m mystified as to what KAC has been doing post-GWOT pre-L403A1.
And that will make for a nice 2 rifle collection.I bet I could spend a quarter million before supper time on nice KAC stuff and never leave my chair.
I chortled.And that will make for a nice 2 rifle collection.
Find a National Guard unit who is able to schedule their deployments at FOBs or airfields in the wake of NSW.I think any retail consumer that whines about KAC availability is not serious or very resourceful, at a minimum. You just have to know where to look and be able to pay the bill. Also, maybe not fixate on one super specific oddball model, etc. I bet I could spend a quarter million before supper time on nice KAC stuff and never leave my chair.
More like 50....And that will make for a nice 2 rifle collection.
I think any retail consumer that whines about KAC availability is not serious or very resourceful, at a minimum. You just have to know where to look and be able to pay the bill. Also, maybe not fixate on one super specific oddball model, etc. I bet I could spend a quarter million before supper time on nice KAC stuff and never leave my chair.
This is beginning to feel a lot like the LMT (I say this as an lmt owner) dogshit QC being "okay because they manufacture for mil/leo and they're okay with it, it's a tool, be man!" argument...for a $3k+ rifle that is absolutely a luxury purchase.
Birds of a feather with these two, kissing cousins if you will. And I say that as a happy owner of both makes.
Absolutely. I will say LMT is the only company I've ever had to do an RMA on a castle nut, end plate, buffer tube and mil spec trigger. Frightening, irritating, and hysterical all at the same time.
To think I hurt feelings when I said LMT was dogshit years back, when their QC started tanking.
Yes they do. Yes mine have the extremely rare prototype long urx4s before they moved to the long urx6. I do not however have the dimplesThat M110A2 does look pretty sick, especially with the dimpled barrel: