Still Cant get Passed is the Jews beieve in 1 God.. SO how does it go from One God in the Old testament to 3 Gods?
You have been told multiple times and shown with multiple scripture that the Jews had a belief in a plurality in God. You just choose to ignore the verses or completely mis interpret them. I’ll give you the KJV this time since you ignorantly believe only it is scripture and only it is inspired (this is not in the Bible anywhere BTW) For someone who talks so much about things being revealed, it seems you would understand that these passages only show 2 people, but that God revealed the three persons of the Trinity with the coming of Jesus.
“I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and
came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.”
Daniel 7:13 KJV
Here you have two distinct figures in a fixed place and one is brought before and draws near to each other. That means there is two different people, both given the aspects of God. The son of man is not “the flesh” or just “a man” as you said. The Son of man was always interpreted as a divine figure. That’s why they crucified him in the courtroom sene, he said he was The Son of Man:
“And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. Then the high priest rent his clothes, and saith, What need we any further witnesses? Ye have heard the blasphemy: what think ye? And they all condemned him to be guilty of death.”
Mark 14:62-64 KJV
Back to OT passages:
“Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;”
Genesis 19:24 KJV
Here we have one of the divine beings from earlier in Ch19 who ate with Lot being called LORD (which is YHWH in the Hebrew) and he is raining fire down from the LORD (YHWH) in heaven. Again these are two different people and one at least appears to be in the flesh
“And the
angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a
flame of fire out of the
midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed. And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt. And when
the LORD saw that he turned aside to see,
God called unto him out of the
midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I.”
Exodus 3:2-4 KJV
Again we have two separate figures. The first part says the Angle of the LORD (YHWH) is in the bush. Then it says when the LORD (YHWH) saw Moses turn aside, God called to Moses from the bush. So we have the Angle of the Lord Being Called God and YHWH being called God, yet both are different people.
Judges 6:8, Exodus 20:2, and Leviticus 11:45 say that the LORD (YHWH) brought Israel out of Egypt. Yet judges 2:1 says the LORD (YHWH) brought Israel out of Egypt. That is two separate people and the Angle of the LORD is being called YHWH
“that the LORD sent a prophet unto the children of Israel, which said unto them, Thus saith
the LORD God of Israel, I brought you up from Egypt, and
brought you forth out of the house of bondage;”
Judges 6:8
“I am the
LORD thy God, which have
brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.”
Exodus 20:2 KJV
“For I am the
LORD that bringeth you up out
of the land of Egypt,
to be your God: ye shall therefore be holy, for I am holy.”
Leviticus 11:45 KJV
“And an
angel of the LORD came up from Gilgal to Bochim, and said,
I made you to go up out of Egypt, and have
brought you unto the land which I sware unto your fathers; and I said, I will never break my covenant with you.”
Judges 2:1 KJV
I know you are going to rant and rave and say something about “flesh” about all these verses, but the fact is you are absolutely wrong. The Jews understood this as the two powers in heaven and this is what Jesus builds upon in the NT, further revealing the trinity. History and Linguistic is on my side with this one, not your 19th century Pentecostal/Apostolic rantings
John 10:30-33
30 I and my Father are one.
Jesus uses similar language to address marriage
“and said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be
one flesh?”
Matthew 19:5 KJV
So husband and wife become one Person? It says they become one. No because one is a reference to the closeness and intimacy. It does not mean numerically one. Jesus here can say I and the Father are one, and still be speak of them as two distinct persons. In fact, this makes more sense, because why doesn’t he just say I am the Father if there is no distinction.
(Insert here some rant from CptNk here about flesh. He really isn’t logically consistent is he)
They are First off TITLES Father Son and Holy Ghost are all Title of the Same GOD..
Can you give me the Bible verse that says they are titles and not persons? Seems like you aren’t pulling this from the scripture. I want to see
EXACTLY where it says each of these names are TITLES. Then exactly where it says they are just titles for Jesus. Also you have to show me where all three are titles (I show you two persons and plurality, yet you dismiss this because it’s not all three, you need to show specifically where it says all three agree titles in scripture. You need to keep your own standard to be honest and consistent)
You say the same think about persons. I show you were the Father and Son INTERACT with each other and have relationship, which is what persons do. Yet you say it doesn’t say persons, so it’s not true.
The fact is all the scenes of Jesus talking with the Father only make sense if they are Two Persons, Yet one GOD. In your theology you make Jesus look like he is schizophrenic talking to himself that way. (Though by the way you type and rant I am starting to wonder if you are…)
The Image of God was pulled from the Future LOGOS of God
Where does it say that in the Bible? John 1 says the Logos (in my view the eternal Son) made everything, but it doesn’t say that we got our image from the Logos. Especially since you have said before that the Logos is an idea. How could we be made in the image of an idea, Gen 1 says we were made in the image of God.
I already showed you the Trinity Belief on the Trinity and they say it cant be understood but yet the Bible says it can
Show me in the Bible it says we can fully understand God. In fact I think it says the exact opposite
“Canst thou by searching find out God? Canst thou find out the Almighty unto perfection?”
Job 11:7 KJV
This sounds like mystery to me, we can’t know God unto perfection, yet you seem to claim that you can.
“The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.”
Deuteronomy 29:29 KJV
God has secret things that belong to him that we do not know. He has revealed some but not all. What he has revealed is Father, Son, and Spirit by nature of their interactions in scripture reveal themselves to be three separate people.
I have Accepted a agreed Plateform for you to explain it (using the bible ) to show me the GOD HEAD.. One Body one Spirit
Again I have posted multiple trinitarian verses. But here is some:
“For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.”
1 John 5:7 KJV
Again Three in One. One God Three persons. No this is not another veiled reference to the name of Jesus, the text does not lend itself to that.
“Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:”
Matthew 28:19 KJV
Again not a veiled reference to the name of Jesus. The text does not lend itself to that
“The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen. 2 Corinthians 13:14 KJV
All three persons being prayed to, not the name of Jesus. All three having different things to give us
“But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name,
he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.”
John 14:26 KJV
Here the Spirit is clearly called he. That makes him a person. If it was a force, it would say “it” shall teach you. Also we have the Father sending, not Jesus. All of them are referred to as different people
“And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: and lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”
Matthew 3:16-17 KJV
Again all three are present. All three are not the same
Explain the Purpose in your Father (still waiting to see who he is the Father of) the Son and then GOD>> WHo makes the Decisions? How do you approach each one? aren't you afraid One will get jealous of the other? Confusion.
You again seem to be attributing human attributes to God. But here is a verse
“I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.”
John 5:30 KJV
That is Jesus saying he does not seek his own will, but the will of the Father. So it’s the Fathers will. Also that show the Father and Jesus as different persons. Here it is shown that He/Jesus has a will and the Father has his own will. Here Jesus says he doesn’t seek his own will but the will of the Father. Though they have two distinct wills, because they are two persons, they have one unified will because Jesus does the will of the Father. Again only makes sense if there are two people.
How would Men have known that Jesus(flesh of God) Obeyed..
Who did Jesus obey? Whose will was he following? I say the father as John 5:30 says, he follows the will of the Father
“I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.”
John 5:30 KJV
IF you Glorify the Son you GLorify the Father and the Spirit. as they are just Titles of God.. But this is not the name.
Nope the text does not say that. Again you say I distort the Bible, yet you can’t even read and do simple exegesis. (Also again nowhere in the Bible does it say Father, Son, Spirit are all titles of God)
“These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:”
John 17:1 KJV
Even a four year old can see that there are two separate people here. The Jesus is asking the Father to do something to him. You don’t ask yourself to do something to yourself
Again this whole chapter shows Jesus praying and asking the Father for things. Doesn’t make sense if it’s just Jesus
Yes God Talked to himself and so on. Its shows that the Flesh can Obey Gods laws and Live Sin Free
Buddy, this is beyond just talking with himself. When people talk to themselves, they don’t ask themselves for things or ask themselves to do things to themselves. He is communicating with the separate person of the Father.
Also you keep referring to the flesh and have said that Jesus just put on flesh. Now here I am addressing another heresy other than modalism, but how can flesh obey? Don’t you have to have a mind or a will to obey? See Jesus was also fully man. As Hebrews says 2:17 Jesus was made like us in every respect. That means he had a complete human nature, he didn’t just take on flesh
Also, only Jesus could live sin free, we as humans in this state cannot live sin free. As 1 John says, if we say that the truth is not in us (maybe that is part of your problem)
“If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.”
1 John 1:8 KJV
1 John 1
King James Version
1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
How was they able to Hear him and see him (Word of Life.. Jesus was the Word incarnate
Yes I agree
2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us
3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. WHere is the Father?
Obedience
Again you do not say that something is with itself. That is not how language works, not even in English. You are BY yourself not WITH yourself. Again you completely fail to see how you quote Trinitarian language and miss the point. You are distorting the plain reading of scripture.
But seriously you are doing eisegesis and not exegesis and you need to learn what those two things mean. You need to read the scripture word for word, paying attention to the context. You constantly skip over many words and ignore the context, distorting the meaning. You are doing this to try and fit it in your theology. If you are sincere, try doing the inductive Bible reading method. It simple, makes you pay attention to context, and doesn’t allow you to skip over things like you have done
