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Gunsmithing Tubb's final finish lapping bullets; lets hear it.

Mordamer

Mordamer

Professional Know It All
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Minuteman
    • May 11, 2010
    1,999
    1,910
    Hammon, OK
    #1
    Well, lets hear from some of you guys that have tried them. I'd like to hear from some skeptics and maybe some enthusiasts as well.

    Did they improve groups?
    Did they decrease fouling?
    Did they damage your gun?
     
    #2
    Re: Tubb's final finish lapping bullets; lets hear it.

    I would only use the Final Finish on a factory tube. Do not use it on a custom barrel. Here's a write up I did on them a few years back. http://www.snipercountry.com/InReviews/DavidTubbsFinalFinish.asp

    I have used them on a Savage .223 also and gotten good results. I use the TMS rounds through my custom tubes to keep the throats smooth.
     
    #3
    Re: Tubb's final finish lapping bullets; lets hear it.

    Thanks, nice write up. I have been very skeptical as to whether this product could improve accuracy or not.
     
    #4
    Re: Tubb's final finish lapping bullets; lets hear it.

    Military bores will often respond well since their production standards seldom include fine lapping. Remember, perfection isn't necessary; even a moderate improvement can be very helpful.

    The bigger advantage of a smoother bore is that it can prolong an acceptable fouling state before fouling precludes decent accuracy. Any help is a help. Service rifle shooters, for one, can benefit greatly from such practices.

    Greg
     
    #6
    Re: Tubb's final finish lapping bullets; lets hear it.

    Thanks for the responses fellas. I have a R 700 that I'm going to try it on. It already shoots well, but there is always room for improvement.

    Has anyone had a bad result?
     
    #7
    Re: Tubb's final finish lapping bullets; lets hear it.

    If your rifle already shoots well, how have you come to the conclusion that changing the bore is where gains in accuracy will be realized?

    Sometimes, there isn't room for improvement over the results you're seeing currently. Leaving well enough alone is something to consider.
     
    #9
    Re: Tubb's final finish lapping bullets; lets hear it.

    It will move your lands forward and you may not be able to reach them any more without being loaded to long for you mag. Only one of the guns I have used it on actually helped the accuracy and it was not a big improvement.

    Personally, do not like how much it moves the lands and would not use it again unless I had nothing to lose on the barrel. You say yours shoots pretty well now? I'd shoot it until it was done and put a good barrel on it.
     
    #10
    Re: Tubb's final finish lapping bullets; lets hear it.

    I used it on a ER Shaw16" bull barrel on an AR, I just loaded up all 50 of the TMS bullets snd shot them. It did work, went from 2" groups to .75" groups. FWIW.
     
    #12
    Re: Tubb's final finish lapping bullets; lets hear it.

    I used them on a 700pss with great results, easier to clean and better groups. I would not use it if you load your shells in the factory magazine though, afterwards I had to seat the bullet out far enough that the shells would not load from the magazine. But no big deal, I just put them in one a time now.
     
    #13
    Re: Tubb's final finish lapping bullets; lets hear it.

    I used them on my 700 SPS .308 after following the barrel break-in techniques found on this and other forums. The accuracy increase was considerable, cleaning is a breeze I clean this barrel after 200-300 rounds. I didn't start reloading till later and I did find that I can't load long enough to touch the lands and fit in the magazine. However I attributed this to the factory chamber not the Tubbs, but I certainly could be wrong. As others have posted, I would not use them in a custom barrel that has been hand lapped.

    bshaw
     
    #14
    Re: Tubb's final finish lapping bullets; lets hear it.

    This process is especially useful for cast boolit shooters, where leading presents issues that make copper fouling consequences pale by comparison.

    Nobody needs a mirror bore, and such may actually be counterproductive; but smoother is better than rougher where sustained strings of fire are involved.

    Greg
     
    #15
    Re: Tubb's final finish lapping bullets; lets hear it.

    Well, contrary to some suggestions I decided to go ahead and try it. The gun did have some significant copper fouling and I hadn't really taken any of the comments as negative so far.

    So here is the whole story for those that are reading this and haven't had experience with the tubb bullets. The box comes with 50 bullets. I am using a .223 rem. and the bullets that tubb uses are 77 gr. SMK. I loaded them to recommended length (a lot shorter than what I usually load my ammo to) and cleaned the gun well to get all the fouling out. I decided not use the most abrasive grade of bullets they sent and only used the last four grades. I also only used 5 of each of the #2, #3, and #4 grades. Then I used all 10 of the #5 grade. I would shoot all of one grade and then clean the gun again. I did this until all were shot. The gun did seem to clean easier by the end and the barrel does look to have a pretty good shine.

    The most important thing I learned about this product from all the previous posts is that the lands are moved towards the muzzle during the process. I use hornady 75 gr. Amax bullets and seat them about .005" jammed into the lands. My O.A.L. was 2.425" with these bullets and I measured them just contacting the lands at 2.420". After the tubb bullet process was done I remeasured O.A.L. when the bullets just touched the lands. I measured 2.440". That means the lands moved .020" on me.
    My .005" jam became a .015" jump. I tested the same load I had been shooting before the process and the groups were not near as good as before. I'm sure this is because of the jump the bullets are now making. I could never get those bullets to group well in my rifle without having them jammed into the lands. I've loaded some test rounds up at 2.445" O.A.L. to restore my .005" jam. We'll see how they work a little later this afternoon if the wind dies down a bit.
     
    #16
    Re: Tubb's final finish lapping bullets; lets hear it.

    I'd like to see your results with the longer reloads. I've been curious about this product for a while and have a couple of hunting rifles with factory barrels that I might want to try it on sometime.
     
    #18
    Re: Tubb's final finish lapping bullets; lets hear it.

    Worked well for me in an FN A5-M SPR chrome lined bore.
    No fouling at all.
    Significant increase in velocity.
    No measurable increase or decrease in accuracy. (.25" @ 100 yards)

    As far as the lands moving, not an issue with the FN SPR barrels.
    They are already so far forward that there is no way to get close to them and have the rounds still fit in the magazine.
     
    #19
    Re: Tubb's final finish lapping bullets; lets hear it.

    For anyone that still is interested in my results. The product seems good. I shot two excellent 3 shot groups in a row today. One measured .308" and the other .268" center to center at 100 yards.

    Just about the best groups I have ever fired with this gun.
    Remington 700 SPS tactical
    Tubb's final finish treatment
    Glass bedded

    69 gr. Nosler Custom Competition
    25.5 gr. Varget
    Remington Brass
    Remington 7.5 small rifle bench rest primers
    OAL 2.300" about .010" jammed into the lands.
     
    #20
    Mordamer said:
    Re: Tubb's final finish lapping bullets; lets hear it.

    For anyone that still is interested in my results. The product seems good. I shot two excellent 3 shot groups in a row today. One measured .308" and the other .268" center to center at 100 yards.

    Just about the best groups I have ever fired with this gun.
    Remington 700 SPS tactical
    Tubb's final finish treatment
    Glass bedded

    69 gr. Nosler Custom Competition
    25.5 gr. Varget
    Remington Brass
    Remington 7.5 small rifle bench rest primers
    OAL 2.300" about .010" jammed into the lands.
    Click to expand...

    I’m going to try this on a Centurion MK12 AR barrel that’s been giving me fits. I cleaned the hell out of it yesterday and the groups shrank, but not as good as my Krieger still.

    I’ll give the TFF a “shot” and see if there’s any improvement.

    I got the 20 round loaded ammo kit from MidwayUSA, not sure if I’ll go whole hog and fire all 20 or do a paired down regiment like you did.
     
    Last edited:
    #22
    Rob01 said:
    You realize this is a 15 year old thread right? lol

    But that being said, try them out. I wouldn’t go full kit but just three finest grits.
    Click to expand...

    I'm one of those rare ones that actually use the 'search' feature rather than starting a new thread for every little question that's been answered numerous times over the past 15 years. Commenting on old threads has never bothered me, the real ones are still around (you and Mordamer).

    I read a lot of your posts on TFF last night and appreciate everything you've shared.

    I tried to buy the TMS loaded ammo from Tubb's site directly but I can't reset my password. The TFF loaded ammo from MidwayUSA should be here by this weekend though.

    I probably need to get some TMS for my Krieger anyways, couldn't hurt to send a couple down it since I'm a little over 6k rounds on it.

    ETA: Also I partly bumped this because I wanted to see what @Mordamer would say to his own thread 15 years later now that he's making precision rifle barrels.
     
    Last edited:
    • Like
    Reactions: Earnhardt and Rob01
    #26
    My $0.02: don't expect miracles from this. I ran it once long ago and it did indeed make tha barrel easier to clean, but it didn't tighten up groups any. That was a factory 300WM. It basically turned a 25-rounds-down-the-pipe bolt gun into a 200-rounds-down-the-pipe bolt gun - but easier to clean...
    ARs are a different game, admittedly - but lower those expectations and you might be pleasantly surprised.
     
    #27
    Now if someone could make something like this but for general bore cleaning…he’d be rich! Lol

    I think air-gunners have some cleaning pellet system available to them. Man, that would be sweet. One or two final shots at the range and you’re clean! Ahhhh…
     
    #29
    Rob01 said:
    You realize this is a 15 year old thread right? lol

    But that being said, try them out. I wouldn’t go full kit but just three finest grits.
    Click to expand...
    Nice necrectomy! 🤣
    That’s what I did on a cheap Mossburg .243 hunting rifle. Just the finest 3 bullets.
    Improved from 1.75” hand loads to almost 1” five shot groups.
     
    #30
    Yeah they can help a bad barrel be a little better. That article I wrote, and some jackass at sniper country stole and put his name on, was about my 300WM and they did help on cleaning and accuracy.
     
    #31
    Borescope came in and the Centurion MK12 barrel was definitely rough just past the chamber. And I wasn’t too impressed with the gas port either. I have maybe 600 rounds on it.

    My KAC LPR with Krieger has some fire cracking which is to be expected given the >6k round count, but down the barrel and gas port looked good.

    I did the full FF system on the Centurion and 10 of the TMS. Following the instructions and cleaning every 5 rounds etc.

    After the 15 rounds and cleaning, the ‘chatter’ looked better but not completely gone. I was running out of light so I cleaned it well and shot three 5-round groups with my 77gr SMK loads. .96, .93, and .70moa. I have struggled to get under 1-1.5moa before.

    I’m going to deep clean again tonight and tomorrow do 10 more TMS, clean again, and see what it’ll do.

    I’ll probably give my KAC LPR Krieger 5 or 10 of the other TMS and see what it does to the fire cracking.

    Now that I have a borescope I can inspect any barrels I get before firing a shot and decide if the FF/TMS system is necessary before I struggle for 4 months lol.
     
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